TWU one line local for maint.

[Overspeed]

"International has the right..."

And the membership has the right to get rid of the twu.

Go AMFA!

 

[Overspeed]

"International has the right..."

And the membership has the right to get rid of the twu.

Go AMFA!

Ken you obviously don't understand the law and how labor management works. AMFA has also closed locals down. Read the DOL website and how any AMFA locals were closed after losing thousands of members. Being a union rep is not like being student body president, you have to make big boy decisions. You need to grow up and realize you are an adult at some point Mighty Mouse.

 

[DNTULSA]

Ken you obviously don't understand the law and how labor management works. AMFA has also closed locals down. Read the DOL website and how any AMFA locals were closed after losing thousands of members. Being a union rep is not like being student body president, you have to make big boy decisions. You need to grow up and realize you are an adult at some point Mighty Mouse.

Gosh overspeed,

You could take your own advice about growing up, but I doubt that you will.

 

[TWU informer]

If you're going to desolve the locals, why not have one big local out of 214 and have real brotherhood instead of the continuous battle between line and OH.

This decision was not about unity, not about a stronger union, not about your future.
It is simply about fear and muzzle of the outspoken critics of the concessions for job approach to unionism.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Ken you obviously don't understand the law and how labor management works. AMFA has also closed locals down. Read the DOL website and how any AMFA locals were closed after losing thousands of members. Being a union rep is not like being student body president, you have to make big boy decisions. You need to grow up and realize you are an adult at some point Mighty Mouse.

Overspeed

"YES" it is true that AMFA has closed locals, but not because the Intl determined they were financially unable to represent the members and pay officers.

When the TWU is voted out here at AA won't the locals of the TWU at AA be disolved as well?

The TWU has stolen $$$ from its members by misrepresentation. Siding with the company again and again at the expence of dues paying members.

1. Fed law changed the 10yr rule to 5 yrs to be vested 1989, TWU made it 6.

2. NO snap back clause in 2003 concessionary contract," Intl. felt wasn't in best interst of company " Quote BY DON V. in LAX

3. Contracted out work with current T/A, IAM/TWU/IBT and yes AMFA all have done it.

4. Now let AA do away with Baker letter for Maint locals, come on Now you do have to admitt that is just wrong. And its being done to silence the line mechanics and give TUL the vote in any furture decisions. Placing T2 mechanics in with fleet is just as wrong.

Being a union rep is a big boys job true, so why do the TWU reps cower to AA.
Why did'n't the twu push the mediation board to release us and then take a strike vote which we invoke self help. ("YES" I know we would not get released and being a legacy carrier the PEB would stop it as well) Why hasn't at any time the TWU made a REAL stand against AA instead of bending over and taking it.

 

[High Speed Steel]

If he didnt campaign then how did you know?

Nobody was forced to vote one way or another, the International had their pitch, stuffed into each and every ballott, with all the reasons to vote yes, and none of the reasons to vote NO, I feel I brought balance.

I wanted to ask for a release upon rejection, like most unions have histotically done. Tulsa wanted to continue to debate over the Labor Loan and the 1/7th rule. that went on for 6 months, once that was done the remark was made "time to get to the nut cutting", but the same person, alonmg with the International was against asking for a release. A lot of the YES voters did not show up in July of 2011 and the vote to ask for a release passed, one of the Tulsa guys was dissapointed, I told him, Yes we got the vote to passs but guaranteed it never happens(because the ATD didnt want to do that-some people actually think that they have control!!!)

Hey dummy, Pensions, retirre medical and Medical all fall into the arena of "pay and bennies".

Wrong. You brought your so called balance to the process long before the ballots were ever mailed out in the form of vote no video's. Then once rejected you assumed the stubborn position to hinder the mediated negotiation process. There was movement in the summer of 2011 by the company to reach a deal that would have included your $2.00 line premium but you denied the line of that increase. You were in mediated talks and any improvement to the failed 2010 TA was gonna be minimal at best because of mediation. The best option the committee failed to exorcise with you was to have you go sit in the truck. If that had happened a mechanic on midnights on the line would be at $38.00 today. Good job Bob....go sit in the truck

 

[Bob Owens]

Wrong. You brought your so called balance to the process long before the ballots were ever mailed out in the form of vote no video's.

26 years of ballott stuffers from the ATD telling us all the reasons why we should vote Yes on bad deals taught me that you have to jump out and get the truth out there because the ATD gets the last word when they stuff their VOTE YES (so you cant blame us). In the past the ATD went unchallenged, now thanks to the internet and youtube we at least have a chance at making sure the membership can truly make an informed decision with input from coworkers who actually have to live under the deal and not apponintees earning six figure salaries who dont.

 

[High Speed Steel]

26 years of ballott stuffers from the ATD telling us all the reasons why we should vote Yes on bad deals taught me that you have to jump out and get the truth out there because the ATD gets the last word when they stuff their VOTE YES (so you cant blame us). In the past the ATD went unchallenged, now thanks to the internet and youtube we at least have a chance at making sure the membership can truly make an informed decision with input from coworkers who actually have to live under the deal and not apponintees earning six figure salaries who dont.

Here I disagree. The negotiation committee had the last word when they voted for the TA. That meant that the committee as a whole supported it's passage whether you solely supported it or not. The time for arguing the facts had come and gone by that point and flyers inserted into the ballots only showed support by the ATD for the actions of the negotiation committee. You separated yourself from the committee with your vote no video presentations and ended up harming the line mechanics in the end. Good job Bob....

 

[TWU informer]

Here I disagree. The negotiation committee had the last word when they voted for the TA. That meant that the committee as a whole supported it's passage whether you solely supported it or not. The time for arguing the facts had come and gone by that point and flyers inserted into the ballots only showed support by the ATD for the actions of the negotiation committee. You separated yourself from the committee with your vote no video presentations and ended up harming the line mechanics in the end. Good job Bob....

Yes but what promise of Int'l lifetime appointments were had in exchange for the support?

 

[High Speed Steel]

Yes but what promise of Int'l lifetime appointments were had in exchange for the support?

None I'm aware of. Enlighten me if you know of any...

 

[Bob Owens]

Ken you obviously don't understand the law and how labor management works.

Labor management, or is it managements labor?

Difference is the International is shutting down the locals that will lose the fewest members and sending members from our locals to the locals that are losing the most members. Maybe those locals should consolidate?

What this is all about is retaliation, all the Locals that voted NO are being liquidated, and the ATD is trying to insure that the areas that tend to reject concessions never gain enough power to make a difference. From the timing of the annoucement its obvious that certain members of our ATD have alingned themselves with management to punish the line guys and attempt to make sure that the next round of concessions go through without any hitches. Under their plan Local 514 would gain nearly 1000 members from locals that voted NO (their reward) and fleet locals would gain a few hundred Title II guys from Locals that voted NO (their reward). The new local they are proposing for the line guys is smaller than the sum of the locals that are being merged together. The decision to permanently seperate Title II line from Title I line is not a reflection of the will of Line Title II either. Their have been petitions circulated in at least two of the cornerstone hubs in the past by Title II guys to join with Title I that were rejected, but no petitions the other way around. Title II line should be given the right to vote as a group. I dont think Title II wants to be split up.

This has nothing to do with financing or building stronger representation for mechanics, in fact its the opposite, dispersing Title II, but only from the line, into 11 fleets service locals instead of having all title II in the two maintenance locals is proof of that. According to you Roll call is the answer to that, well all that does is hand the decision over to 514, so how does that help line maintenance? The fact is it perpetuates the same conditions that brought us the 2003 concessions and the 2012 concessions.

Look at what the ATD is proposing
Title II will be seearated from the line at all locations.
but
Title II will remain with local 514, in fact the only Fleet Local that will lose Title II members is 513, but only the ones at DWH, which are also going to 514 along with DWH TI and V.

They are calling 591 a "line Local", thats why they say they are removing DWH, which the company has said is neither a Base or a Line but a "Hybrid", and sending it to 514, but even though 514 is to be considered the 'base Local" it will reatian its Line Title 1 and V guys in Tulsa and any other cities it represents. They claim they are doing this because of the one station set despite the fact that in every other one station set there is more than one local in that station. That gives Tulsa the right to be considered a Line rep as well as a base rep. Seems that they have special rules for 514 to ensure they keep the majority. the strategy is pretty transparant despite OS and HSS smoke show. Shore up 514 with T-II and workers from 567 and DWH while stripping the more troublesome group of their Title II guys. Spread the title II line guys out as thin as possible and put them in Locals where they are greatly outnumbered by workers who make less money than they do to insure that the President who represents them will not likely come from Title II, the odds that all eleven of them will be from Title II are slim.

DWH and AFW are hundreds of miles away yet 565, or 591 are right there.

The objectives of who ever drew up this plan are obvious, weaken the guys who are willing to fight by either folding them into 514 or to the Title III locasl.

Either that or they are trying to ensure that the TWU is ousted. Maybe they see that the TWUs funds are shrinking and the IBT already has spots for them. maybe Jim H offered them a better deal than Jim L?

 

[Overspeed]

Overspeed

"YES" it is true that AMFA has closed locals, but not because the Intl determined they were financially unable to represent the members and pay officers.

When the TWU is voted out here at AA won't the locals of the TWU at AA be disolved as well?

The TWU has stolen $$$ from its members by misrepresentation. Siding with the company again and again at the expence of dues paying members.

1. Fed law changed the 10yr rule to 5 yrs to be vested 1989, TWU made it 6.

2. NO snap back clause in 2003 concessionary contract," Intl. felt wasn't in best interst of company " Quote BY DON V. in LAX

3. Contracted out work with current T/A, IAM/TWU/IBT and yes AMFA all have done it.

4. Now let AA do away with Baker letter for Maint locals, come on Now you do have to admitt that is just wrong. And its being done to silence the line mechanics and give TUL the vote in any furture decisions. Placing T2 mechanics in with fleet is just as wrong.

Being a union rep is a big boys job true, so why do the TWU reps cower to AA.
Why did'n't the twu push the mediation board to release us and then take a strike vote which we invoke self help. ("YES" I know we would not get released and being a legacy carrier the PEB would stop it as well) Why hasn't at any time the TWU made a REAL stand against AA instead of bending over and taking it.

The AMFA National closed the locals and for the same core reason. It is not meant by any means as a slam on AMFA in that the National could not keep those locals open due to the cost outweighed their ability to pay for themselves. The AMFA National made a decision based on their fiduciary duties per the LMRDA.

If that were to happen but I am inclined to believe it won't happen. Granted members are not happy and I disagree on the reasoning but when faced with picking between the IBT and AMFA, most line AMTs signed IBT cards. AMFA is a failed experiment. They have been trying for over 50 years and have little success and the success they do claim at WN was put in place by the IBT. Not saying that we would be better off than the IBT either. Overlay any AS or WN AMFA agreement and the story would be simply, more pay but much fewer jobs. If the AMFA track record at WN is a template for AA we can either expect a three extension with a 3% raise each year or taking AA on and maybe get more overhaul work outsourced. IBT/CO CBA at AA, well you would make $38 (what the TWU had for you almost three years ago) but with all engines and components outsourced, or IBT/UA all of airframe and components outsourced with $38.

Pick your poison. If you have less than 1990 seniority under a IBT type CBA then you should think about other employment. Under a AMFA type CBA, well better not have less than 1985 seniority.

Read Bob's posts, TUL wanted to keep the UBB and the line presidents didn't care but wanted something else in return. The committee NOT the Int'l decided that regardless of Bob's revisionist reporting. $2M was not going to get 4,000 AMTs more than $0.09 an hour in taxi premium and only a thousands senior AMTs one week of VC. The negotiating committee made a bad decision (again) and now are blaming the Int'l.

T2 is only in the fleet locals for day-to-day representation. In MIA the majority of T2 reports to PAX service management and joint locals deal only with PAX management. It is the logical choice for now. T2 will be with M&R locals in the base where they only work for M&E management like T1. At contract time, T2 will be with M&R for negotiations.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Labor management, or is it managements labor?

Difference is the International is shutting down the locals that will lose the fewest members and sending members from our locals to the locals that are losing the most members. Maybe those locals should consolidate?

What this is all about is retaliation, all the Locals that voted NO are being liquidated, and the ATD is trying to insure that the areas that tend to reject concessions never gain enough power to make a difference. From the timing of the annoucement its obvious that certain members of our ATD have alingned themselves with management to punish the line guys and attempt to make sure that the next round of concessions go through without any hitches. Under their plan Local 514 would gain nearly 1000 members from locals that voted NO (their reward) and fleet locals would gain a few hundred Title II guys from Locals that voted NO (their reward). The new local they are proposing for the line guys is smaller than the sum of the locals that are being merged together. The decision to permanently seperate Title II line from Title I line is not a reflection of the will of Line Title II either. Their have been petitions circulated in at least two of the cornerstone hubs in the past by Title II guys to join with Title I that were rejected, but no petitions the other way around. Title II line should be given the right to vote as a group. I dont think Title II wants to be split up.

This has nothing to do with financing or building stronger representation for mechanics, in fact its the opposite, dispersing Title II, but only from the line, into 11 fleets service locals instead of having all title II in the two maintenance locals is proof of that. According to you Roll call is the answer to that, well all that does is hand the decision over to 514, so how does that help line maintenance? The fact is it perpetuates the same conditions that brought us the 2003 concessions and the 2012 concessions.

Look at what the ATD is proposing
Title II will be seearated from the line at all locations.
but
Title II will remain with local 514, in fact the only Fleet Local that will lose Title II members is 513, but only the ones at DWH, which are also going to 514 along with DWH TI and V.

They are calling 591 a "line Local", thats why they say they are removing DWH, which the company has said is neither a Base or a Line but a "Hybrid", and sending it to 514, but even though 514 is to be considered the 'base Local" it will reatian its Line Title 1 and V guys in Tulsa and any other cities it represents. They claim they are doing this because of the one station set despite the fact that in every other one station set there is more than one local in that station. That gives Tulsa the right to be considered a Line rep as well as a base rep. Seems that they have special rules for 514 to ensure they keep the majority. the strategy is pretty transparant despite OS and HSS smoke show. Shore up 514 with T-II and workers from 567 and DWH while stripping the more troublesome group of their Title II guys. Spread the title II line guys out as thin as possible and put them in Locals where they are greatly outnumbered by workers who make less money than they do to insure that the President who represents them will not likely come from Title II, the odds that all eleven of them will be from Title II are slim.

DWH and AFW are hundreds of miles away yet 565, or 591 are right there.

The objectives of who ever drew up this plan are obvious, weaken the guys who are willing to fight by either folding them into 514 or to the Title III locasl.

Either that or they are trying to ensure that the TWU is ousted.

Wasn't this merger of locals your idea? Seems I read a letter you posted reflecting exactly that. Now you wanna complain about what you suggested...lmao

 

[Bob Owens]

Here I disagree. The negotiation committee had the last word when they voted for the TA. That meant that the committee as a whole supported it's passage whether you solely supported it or not. The time for arguing the facts had come and gone by that point and flyers inserted into the ballots only showed support by the ATD for the actions of the negotiation committee. You separated yourself from the committee with your vote no video presentations and ended up harming the line mechanics in the end. Good job Bob....

The "negotiating committee" where 6 out of 7 A&Ps voted NO, where 7 out of the 7 guys from the Locals that are being liquidated voted NO, but were outnumbered by guys from FSC dominated locals and Tulsa.

Now the ATD is propsing reducing the group that voted NO to one on the committeee, adding three more heads from FSC dominated locals and adding nearly 1000 guys from Vote NO locals to 514.

The committe by roll call vote supported the TA, the line locals were never given the opportunuity to negotiate with the company.

The committee is controled by the ATD, keep trying to spin, most of the members are very aware of the sham.

 

[Bob Owens]

The AMFA National closed the locals and for the same core reason. It is not meant by any means as a slam on AMFA in that the National could not keep those locals open due to the cost outweighed their ability to pay for themselves. The AMFA National made a decision based on their fiduciary duties per the LMRDA.
.

Hmm, and how many years did the TWU keep the gaming division local in place?

Read Bob's posts, TUL wanted to keep the UBB and the line presidents didn't care but wanted something else in return. The committee NOT the Int'l decided that regardless of Bob's revisionist reporting. $2M was not going to get 4,000 AMTs more than $0.09 an hour in taxi premium and only a thousands senior AMTs one week of VC. The negotiating committee made a bad decision (again) and now are blaming the Int'l.

T2 is only in the fleet locals for day-to-day representation. In MIA the majority of T2 reports to PAX service management and joint locals deal only with PAX management. It is the logical choice for now. T2 will be with M&R locals in the base where they only work for M&E management like T1. At contract time, T2 will be with M&R for negotiations

Funny how OS claims to have such details when he claims he wasnt even there.

The Line Locals never had the opportunity to negotiate. After having closed door metings with 514 in Tulsa they slamed a deal through with a roll call vote, When we approached Ream and said that none of our proposals were even discussed he said "I'm done with you guys, turned his back on us and walked away.

At contract time, T2 (and up to 11 FSC Presidents) will be with M&R for negotiations.

How would you know that? Even Jim Little said that the structure for negotiations would be worked out later. Why not just fess up and reveal who you really are? Simple, you cant compete on a level playing field.