TWU one line local for maint.

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Probably the same day stop dodging the question about accepting a donation from ARSA.

A/C Tinker, so I continue to see the attacks on the AMFA supporters here on this site when you felt and told me that you would support the union on the property which is the TWU. My question to you is WHY does it matter what Ken does seperate from AA. He has done a good thing as far as AMT's in this country. There is an AMT day, even AA recognizes that. AA has donated $$$ and hats and what ever toward the promotion of the AMT's.AA here in Miami as well as LAX provides food on that day to the guys working. His AMTA helps promote the craft for both you and all other AMTs. Who he get $$ from to promote that is seperate from his AMFA supporting here at AA. Do you and others think that he uses the $$ for his own gain? How many states have you gotten to recognize our craft? I would say NONE. What have YOU done to improve the class and craft? What can YOU say you have DONE.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Now that the TWU is doing away with our locals which will make it even harder to protect the membership, WHY haven't YOU signed an AMFA Card so we can Get RID of Them?

 

[DNTULSA]

Probably the same day stop dodging the question about accepting a donation from ARSA.

tinker;

overspeed won't answer my question either.

I know how you feel!

 

[Rogallo]

A/C Tinker, so I continue to see the attacks on the AMFA supporters here on this site when you felt and told me that you would support the union on the property which is the TWU. My question to you is WHY does it matter what Ken does seperate from AA. He has done a good thing as far as AMT's in this country. There is an AMT day, even AA recognizes that. AA has donated $$$ and hats and what ever toward the promotion of the AMT's.AA here in Miami as well as LAX provides food on that day to the guys working. His AMTA helps promote the craft for both you and all other AMTs. Who he get $$ from to promote that is seperate from his AMFA supporting here at AA. Do you and others think that he uses the $$ for his own gain? How many states have you gotten to recognize our craft? I would say NONE. What have YOU done to improve the class and craft? What can YOU say you have DONE.

They have to try to discredit anything or anyone that threatens what they think is unionism. If they knew who you and I actually are, instead of using an alias, they would attack us too.!! They have been unaccountable and undemocratic for a long time and the end of that era is getting near.

Get the unaccountable, undemocratic, dues collection agency off the property.

 

[Bob Owens]

There has been just over 140 airline BK's since deregulation. Most airlines went out of business prior to deregulation due to mergers. Wrong again Bob with your bogus facts.

Make a lot of money? Where? Since 1947 the industry has turned a net LOSS of $1.4B according to the ATA.

The 747 made the industry a lot of money? Didn't the 747 get grounded during the 1970s oil embargo due to fuel burn and an inability to make profits? Yes.

in 2011, Stephen Breyer who worked on deregulation stated:

"Airline revenue per passenger mile has declined from an inflation-adjusted 33.3 cents in 1974, to 13 cents in the first half of 2010. In 1974 the cheapest round-trip New York-Los Angeles flight (in inflation-adjusted dollars) that regulators would allow: $1,442. Today one can fly that same route for $268."

Didnt address what was said, how many airlines dissapeared during the first 34 years?

The ATA is an Industry Lobbying Group. No suprise that a management friendly guy like you would take their word as Gospell. Look at each year since 1938, you will see that prior to deregulation they showed small losses and small profits, whereas after deregulation they would show large losses and large profits, the swings were more extreme, the difference between the peaks and valleys provides the opportunity to make a lot of money for investors (and crush unions in negotiations if they fall for all the BS). You must also keep in mind the favorable tax and accounting laws that allow corporations, as a means of avoiding having to pay their fair share of taxes, are able to claim losses on intangibles.Do you really believe that if this idustry truly lost $1.4 billion in real money that it would exist as a private industry?


747, there you go again, saying I said something I didnt, you either cant read or are using your typical FOX NEWS approach to the discussion. I said that the 747 did more to lower airfares than deregulation.


RPMs. OK, how much did it decline from 1938 till 1978 and how much did it decline from 1978 till today? The figures you cited included at least four years of Regulation (1974 till 1978)

From "Turbulent skies" pg 71 (In 1936) The Round-Trip fare to Manila was $1438.20, a years wage for a working man".

Same book page 72. "Between 1929 and 1939 , the cost per passenger mile fell from 12 cents to 5.1 cents."

Both of those quoted stats are prior to Deregulation. The drop betweeen 1929 and 1939 was more than double the overlapping, longer period you cited. True the CAB wasnt established till 1938 but there was that "issue" that got American Airlines to become American Airlines.

Another difference between today and 1974 is that you may be able to find a seat for $268, or you may pay $1442 (for a middle seat) and and find you are sitting next to a guy who paid $268.

Now for a figure thats really of importance to us, in real terms(Inflation adjusted) how much have our wages gone down, including benefits since 1978?

My guess is roughly 50%, thanks to people like you.

 

[FWAAA]

Recently, I compared the 1981 AA results with the 2011 results. Briefly, the 1981 systemwide yield was just over 12 cents per mile. Thirty years later, in 2011, the systemwide yield (including higher-yield Eagle) was just over 15 cents per mile, or almost exactly 25% higher than in 1981.

But according to the Dep't of Labor's inflation calculator, to keep pace, AA's 2011 yield should have been 150% higher, or just over 30 cents per mile instead of the 15 cents. Fuel, of course, was about seven times higher in 2011 than in 1981. Fares have not kept pace. If they had kept pace with inflation, AMR's revenues last year would have been about $48 billion instead of the piddly $24 billion. With another $24 billion, AA could have paid its employees double what they earned last year plus could have paid cash for all its new planes and could have paid off its debts. It's too bad for the employees that 1981 came to an end, as that was a very good year to be in the airline business.

Is that because management at AA, UA, DL and US are all incompetent and none of them are raising fares enough or is it because young people at B6 and VX are willng to work for peanuts compared to the more mature workforce at AA? Plus, for much of that 30 year period, the young, growing workforce at WN was also willing to work for less than the legacy workers. For the past few years, of course, the maturing workforce at WN, which has just about stopped growing, has demanded and received more than many legacy employees.

Even at today's fares (higher than they were a few years ago), flying is a tremendous bargain. Re-regulation? Good luck with that.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

A/C Tinker

Since you Bad mouth all the Presdents of the line Locals and the Guys who are pushing to replace the ( Totally Worthless Union) aka TWU
When the realignment happens are You going to put your name on the ballot at the station your working at to effect the change from within? You seem to like the TWU and all that it has done here at AA. Are You going to work to the betterment of the AMT's here?

Will you work as a TWU rep at your station? Are you willing to do the day to day stuff, ( Scamming ) the TWU reps do. Will anyone come to you for help or will you be one of the scammers that everyone talks about?

 

[Bob Owens]

Recently, I compared the 1981 AA results with the 2011 results. Briefly, the 1981 systemwide yield was just over 12 cents per mile. Thirty years later, in 2011, the systemwide yield (including higher-yield Eagle) was just over 15 cents per mile, or almost exactly 25% higher than in 1981.

But according to the Dep't of Labor's inflation calculator, to keep pace, AA's 2011 yield should have been 150% higher, or just over 30 cents per mile instead of the 15 cents. Fuel, of course, was about seven times higher in 2011 than in 1981. Fares have not kept pace. If they had kept pace with inflation, AMR's revenues last year would have been about $48 billion instead of the piddly $24 billion. With another $24 billion, AA could have paid its employees double what they earned last year plus could have paid cash for all its new planes and could have paid off its debts. It's too bad for the employees that 1981 came to an end, as that was a very good year to be in the airline business.

Is that because management at AA, UA, DL and US are all incompetent and none of them are raising fares enough or is it because young people at B6 and VX are willng to work for peanuts compared to the more mature workforce at AA? Plus, for much of that 30 year period, the young, growing workforce at WN was also willing to work for less than the legacy workers. For the past few years, of course, the maturing workforce at WN, which has just about stopped growing, has demanded and received more than many legacy employees.

Even at today's fares (higher than they were a few years ago), flying is a tremendous bargain. Re-regulation? Good luck with that.

Few things you left out.
Yea Fuel is more, even when adjusted for inflation but Aircraft today burn much less fuel per RPM.
Aircraft today are flown by two people, not three.
Aircraft today require much less maintenance, hence a lot fewer mechanics. I believe that our productivity since 1981 has gone up, IIRC, around 300%, as far as generating RPMs.

WN wages, in real terms have not gone up in at least 10 years. Ours went down.

Keep playing games with the numbers, if you are going to adjust ticket prices, or Yeild for inflation then you have to do the same with all the other comparators or the comparasion is invalid.

Yes there are bargain fares, and there are fares that are not such great bargains. Like I said, you could be sitting next to the guy who paid $268 while you paid $1400.

 

[Bob Owens]

I don't agree with term limits myself and neither should you. You love Bob don't you? Then he would not be there for next negotiations. Or maybe get an Int'l job. If Bob got in to the Int'l would you still want term limits. Think the whole thing through buddy.

Agree, term limits are un-democratic, but I do believe in "terms". No appointed official should have authority over an elected one in the union.

 

[AC Tynker]

A/C Tinker, so I continue to see the attacks on the AMFA supporters here on this site when you felt and told me that you would support the union on the property which is the TWU. My question to you is WHY does it matter what Ken does seperate from AA. He has done a good thing as far as AMT's in this country. There is an AMT day, even AA recognizes that. AA has donated $$$ and hats and what ever toward the promotion of the AMT's.AA here in Miami as well as LAX provides food on that day to the guys working. His AMTA helps promote the craft for both you and all other AMTs. Who he get $$ from to promote that is seperate from his AMFA supporting here at AA. Do you and others think that he uses the $$ for his own gain? How many states have you gotten to recognize our craft? I would say NONE. What have YOU done to improve the class and craft? What can YOU say you have DONE.

It matters because he advocates as you say and does put a lot of energy into it I will give him that. If someone is trying to better our craft, how would you condone the acceptance of funding from an organization that is putting a lot of effort into tearing Part 145 to shreds for the purchase of something such as a Charles Taylor Bust that every A and P Mechanic and Aviation Machinist should hold near and dear because he is our founder so to speak. A donation from ARSA for anything to do with our CRAFT would equate to you accepting a donation from Scott Walker the Union Busting Governor to help with your AMFA drive. If you would gladly accept it because it helps with your cause not worrying where or who it came from then I guess what I have typed makes no difference. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that myself or others think that he is using the money for personal gain but that couldn't be further from the truth. Not one post that I have made or read that made reference to this had anything even insinuating what you ask.

I waited after I seen Overpeed ask him why he accepted and why he didn't give the money back as a thanks but no thanks gesture. He answered and referenced everything in the posts except for that several times. Eventually I politely asked for myself telling him I wasn't making accusations but I was curious as to why and got the same answer as Overspeed. If you pay attention you will know that I have not bashed him for his AMTA or anything even closely related.

 

[AC Tynker]

A/C Tinker

Since you Bad mouth all the Presdents of the line Locals and the Guys who are pushing to replace the ( Totally Worthless Union) aka TWU
When the realignment happens are You going to put your name on the ballot at the station your working at to effect the change from within? You seem to like the TWU and all that it has done here at AA. Are You going to work to the betterment of the AMT's here?

Will you work as a TWU rep at your station? Are you willing to do the day to day stuff, ( Scamming ) the TWU reps do. Will anyone come to you for help or will you be one of the scammers that everyone talks about?

None of them have admitted to pushing to replace the TWU that I am aware of, maybe you know something I don't. Do tell.

If that is the case then in my opinion it's pretty chicken defecation to remain an elected official, representing and collecting decent money from a Union that you are trying get replaced. If they feel that strong about getting rid of the TWU why not resign from your elected post and go back to your box and then do your bidding. Like I have typed on here before, if AMFA celebrates you or even condones one of their Elected Officials that have taken an oath and is compensated to represent them to openly push for another Union or to openly bash them then they have more problems than I first thought. I would love to see how you guys would react if one of AMFAs Local Officials were pushing for the IBT or then again maybe you would celebrate him but I highly doubt that would be the case.

No I don't want to run for any kind of office but I go to meetings and volunteer my time when ever I am needed. Sorry if you don't accept that capacity for me to be able to have input.

 

[TWU informer]

None of them have admitted to pushing to replace the TWU that I am aware of, maybe you know something I don't. Do tell.

If that is the case then in my opinion it's pretty chicken defecation to remain an elected official, representing and collecting decent money from a Union that you are trying get replaced. If they feel that strong about getting rid of the TWU why not resign from your elected post and go back to your box and then do your bidding. Like I have typed on here before, if AMFA celebrates you or even condones one of their Elected Officials that have taken an oath and is compensated to represent them to openly push for another Union or to openly bash them then they have more problems than I first thought. I would love to see how you guys would react if one of AMFAs Local Officials were pushing for the IBT or then again maybe you would celebrate him but I highly doubt that would be the case.

No I don't want to run for any kind of office but I go to meetings and volunteer my time when ever I am needed. Sorry if you don't accept that capacity for me to be able to have input.

Just as a matter of fact, and to comfirm that you really are something more than a chronic complainer, tell us all how many union meetings in the last 12 months you have attended and what exactly was capacity of your "volunteer as needed" in the 12 months?

In other words be more specific about what you really do regarding your current union?

 

[strikeforce]

Agree, term limits are un-democratic, but I do believe in "terms". No appointed official should have authority over an elected one in the union.

there shouldn't be any appointed positions within the TWU. I guess when your appointed your "term" goes on forever. That's just one of the problems with the TWU....it's a good ole boy system.....at INTL level for sure.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

None of them have admitted to pushing to replace the TWU that I am aware of, maybe you know something I don't. Do tell.

If that is the case then in my opinion it's pretty chicken defecation to remain an elected official, representing and collecting decent money from a Union that you are trying get replaced. If they feel that strong about getting rid of the TWU why not resign from your elected post and go back to your box and then do your bidding. Like I have typed on here before, if AMFA celebrates you or even condones one of their Elected Officials that have taken an oath and is compensated to represent them to openly push for another Union or to openly bash them then they have more problems than I first thought. I would love to see how you guys would react if one of AMFAs Local Officials were pushing for the IBT or then again maybe you would celebrate him but I highly doubt that would be the case.

No I don't want to run for any kind of office but I go to meetings and volunteer my time when ever I am needed. Sorry if you don't accept that capacity for me to be able to have input.

A/C Tinker

There are a few AMFA supporters in some line stations in office and they are there because they have over the yrs attempted to correct the bs that went on in the locals before.
There are are others like myself who would not take a TWU position NO MATTER HOW MUCH $$$. Its all about being true to what you believe in. I am a union guy and have helped many over the yrs with ways in which to combat the bs from the company. I speek my mind and have voiced my distrust with the TWU leaders as well as the management of AA. ITS NOT ABOUT THE $$$$ if it was there would be a list of guys on the ballots for the officer positions. But since the UNION Rules provide for compensation for the time they spend doing the job they do, BE Honest YOU would Take the $$$ as well. That amout is not picked by them it is set by the number of members they have in the Local. So that means your BOY wonder Hewitt is about to get a big raise in Tul. since they are planning on adding AFW and DFW to the Tul local. DO you think he deserves that big of a raise. Think about that?

How would I feel if some one who was an AMFA supporter switched and went to IBT? I would ask him/her why?I would not like it either.. But it all comes down to their choice. What each of us feels is the best choice for our craft? So just as I respect the fact that your a TWU supporter, what the line guys do or say should not matter to you.

You will not get involved for what ever reason but you attack the job they do and how they do it until you can step into their shoes and fight with the Intl and the company I suggest that you support the TWU and be less critical of the guys who are attempting to bring a better way of life at work for You and all AMT's.

 

[furp]

Nice try Overspin but this isn't Jerry....Lots of guys at the terminal know the password to the furp username.Maybe if you really were working the line as you say you would already know that lol