TWU one line local for maint.

[Overspeed]

Not true, the airlines were subsidized by the government through the USPS.



Of course they do, like in most businesses, thanks to the fact that they can claim losses on "intangibles", things such as "Goodwill" , AA wrote off nearly $1 billion of that prior to our 2003 concessions.



If you say so. Still supports what I said as far as the 747 lowering the cost to fly than Deregulation. The fact is that since the early days under the CAB airfares declined.

Bob you are wrong and this fantasy history lesson is meaningless.

Prior to WWII airlines were mostly a novelty. Airlines barely made a profit prior to the DC3 mail or no mail.

The point is you don't just count the highs in business cycle and say we made money, yes one year but I thought the plan was to have stable employment. If you want to keep losing your job and starting over fine, I'm not going with you. Goodbye.

Whatever Bob, the aircraft didn't do it except on select premium markets. How many 747s were flying domestic? After deregulation transcon was dominated by DC10s and L1011s remember or were you sleeping in first class on the DC10 getting filmed for Hard Copy while the rest of us were fixing hydraulic leaks, troubleshooting #2 manifold fail loops, or repairing broken cargo loading chains.

A US Supreme Court Justice and co-author of the law disagrees with you. I'm sure an A&P Local Union President knows more.

 

[Bob Owens]

Hewitt was against the 2010 but unlike you didn't campaign for it's rejection. He instead honored the opinions of the membership and allowed them to make their choice. I think at the time he believed some improvements could have been made to that 2010 TA that the committee tried to make happen. As the negotiation began in December 2010 soon after many articles were left TA'd, then around March of 2011 I believe the committee went all in with the remaining articles. Late into the summer of 2011 the company began to move on articles of the agreement and reach TA's leaving only about 10 articles open to discussion. That is when you came into the picture stonewalling and requesting release from the mediated talks. I think a TA could have been reached by late summer or early fall but you again failed the Line AMT by denying them a $2.00 an hour raise in line premium. I still say had something been accomplished with the 2010 TA we would have received all monies associated with that TA since the company requested to remain status quo on pay and bennies while going through bankruptcy. You blew it Bob, nice job....

If he didnt campaign then how did you know?

Nobody was forced to vote one way or another, the International had their pitch, stuffed into each and every ballott, with all the reasons to vote yes, and none of the reasons to vote NO, I feel I brought balance.

I wanted to ask for a release upon rejection, like most unions have histotically done. Tulsa wanted to continue to debate over the Labor Loan and the 1/7th rule. that went on for 6 months, once that was done the remark was made "time to get to the nut cutting", but the same person, alonmg with the International was against asking for a release. A lot of the YES voters did not show up in July of 2011 and the vote to ask for a release passed, one of the Tulsa guys was dissapointed, I told him, Yes we got the vote to passs but guaranteed it never happens(because the ATD didnt want to do that-some people actually think that they have control!!!)

Hey dummy, Pensions, retirre medical and Medical all fall into the arena of "pay and bennies".

 

[Overspeed]

If he didnt campaign then how did you know?

Nobody was forced to vote one way or another, the International had their pitch, stuffed into each and every ballott, with all the reasons to vote yes, and none of the reasons to vote NO, I feel I brought balance.

I wanted to ask for a release upon rejection, like most unions have histotically done. Tulsa wanted to continue to debate over the Labor Loan and the 1/7th rule. that went on for 6 months, once that was done the remark was made "time to get to the nut cutting", but the same person, alonmg with the International was against asking for a release. A lot of the YES voters did not show up in July of 2011 and the vote to ask for a release passed, one of the Tulsa guys was dissapointed, I told him, Yes we got the vote to passs but guaranteed it never happens(because the ATD didnt want to do that-some people actually think that they have control!!!)

Hey dummy, Pensions, retirre medical and Medical all fall into the arena of "pay and bennies".

Lying about the facts and distorting the truth to get the TA to fail is not balance. It is true the top rate would have been $38 and hour had we passed the TA which is what you are crying about no making now. It is true that AA was going to file BK like the International said was very likely and you argued was a scare tactic. You misled so if we are scoring who was right and wrong then you get an F and the International gets an A on the assessment of the facts.

Bob you complain about when "yes" voters show up because you couldn't pack enough "no" voters in the room. Fact is that release would have probably accelerate the BK filing. A strike would have either been blocked or denied like you were told by the International and we would have been in BK anyway eventually. We were heading for BK based on the pilots anyway everyone knows that.

 

[1AA]

I'm sure an A&P Local Union President knows more.

More than you.

 

[TWU informer]

Can't we all just get a new union and get along?

 

[furp]

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: 10/7/2012 3:33:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: OCT. 4 2012 NEWS RELEASE RESPONSE


[background=transparent]TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN;[/background]

[background=transparent]WHY DIDN'T YOU MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU AND ALL YOU OVERPAID SPINELESS FATCAT TWU INTERNATIONAL LEADERSHIP CONNIVERS IN THE END ACTUALLY SOLD OUT THE AMERICAN AIRLINES MECHANICS AND HAD THE REVOLTING GALL TO EXTRACT AMERICAN AIRLINES A5 FLIGHT BENEFITS FOR THEMSELVES,FAMILY AND FRIENDS AS TRIBUTE FOR AIDING AND ABETTING MR HORTON'S SLASH AND BURN ,TAKE NO PRISONERS 6 YEAR CONTRACT.[/background]
[background=transparent]YOU ALL SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.[/background]

[background=transparent]I HAVE BEEN A TWU MEMBER FOR OVER 44 YEARS AND HAVE WATCHED MR LITTLE SLOWLY AND WITH THE PRECISION OF A BRAIN SURGEON TAKE THE AA WORK FORCE DOWN TO THE MISERABLE SITUATION IT FINDS ITSELF WHILE HE AND HIS CADRE HAVE DEMANDED AND RECEIVED EXORBIDANT PERSONAL PAYRAISES AND ADDED PERKS, WITH SOME RECENTLY COMPLAINING THAT THEY ARE NOT PAID NEAR ENOUGH FOR THEIR "EXPERTISE","DEDICATION" AND "SERVICE". ...ALL THAT RANK AND FILE HARD EARNED CASH OVER THE YEARS SPENT FOR NOTHING BUT A CONSISTENT RECORD OF CORPORATED APPEASEMENT AND FACILITATION. WHAT A TRAVISTRY! [/background]

[background=transparent]I THANK GOD EVERY DAY THAT I AM NOW AT THE END OF MY "CAREER" BUT I HAVE NOTHING BUT FEAR AND TREPIDATION FOR ALL THOSE I LEAVE BEHIND FOR THEY WILL HAVE TO INDURE UNDER THE FALSE LEADERSHIP OF THE TWU INTERNATIONAL WHICH HAS EVLOVED INTO A DICTORIAL UNDEMOCRATIC MONSTER WITH MR LITTLE AS THE DOCTOR FRANENSTEIN OF HIS FOUL ENTERPRISE.[/background]

[background=transparent]I CAN ONLY IMAGINE WHAT THE INTERNATIONAL HAS IN STORE FOR THE MECHANICS AT AMERICAN AIRLINES...NEWS FLASH ..LOCAL CONSOLIDATION ...JUST A CYNICAL AND VINDICTIVE POWER GRAB BY THE INTERNATIONAL. IT IS ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDING HOW IN SUCH SHORT TIME AFTER THE DOS THE INTERNATIONAL BEARS IT FANGS AND STIKES OUT AT THE RANK AND FILE.WHAT A SICK BUNCH OF UNION "LEADERS".[/background]
[background=transparent]I WOULD TELL YOU ALL TO GO TO HELL BUT SINCE THAT IS WHERE YOU ALL EMERGED FROM THAT WOULD BE EMPTY DIRECTIVE.[/background]
[background=transparent]THE ONLY SOLICE I HAVE FOUND IN THIS HOUSE OF PAIN IS THAT I AM NOT ALONE .EVERY PERSON I KNOW AT AMERICAN FEELS THE SAME WAY I DO AND IS READY AND WILLING AND ABLE TO DO WHAT HAS TO BE DONE TO END THIS AGONY.[/background]

[background=transparent]WHY DON'T YOU TELL THE PRESS AND THE PUBLIC THAT PART OF THE STORY WORTS AND ALL IN YOUR PRESS RELEASES? [/background]

 

[1AA]

Can't we all just get a new union and get along?

I'm in when do we start? Once AMFA is in half the problem will be gone. What a stress reliever that will be. Let the clock start the countdown.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Heard that there was talk among the line station Pres. that a regional three local idea has been discussed? If true isn't that being just like the Intl., with out coming to the membership with any questions or asking for input. There is alot on the companies plate as well as the TWU's are we going to used as pawns from our own Pres. while they figure out who is going to be leading the new local. Vacation bidding, medical selection, layoffs, EO, SIS, how are the decertified locals going to handle these. Is there going to be an election for the New locals? Or are the line station Pres. going to work like the TWU Intl. and just appoint theselves as officers?

We will get a choice to sign/NOT SIGN a new dues check off card I would assume.
Since when you bump, tranfer, you get that option.

Anyone else heard this, Any information will help us all?

 

[Overspeed]

Sent: 10/7/2012 3:33:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: OCT. 4 2012 NEWS RELEASE RESPONSE


[background=transparent]TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN;[/background]

[background=transparent]WHY DIDN'T YOU MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU AND ALL YOU OVERPAID SPINELESS FATCAT TWU INTERNATIONAL LEADERSHIP CONNIVERS IN THE END ACTUALLY SOLD OUT THE AMERICAN AIRLINES MECHANICS AND HAD THE REVOLTING GALL TO EXTRACT AMERICAN AIRLINES A5 FLIGHT BENEFITS FOR THEMSELVES,FAMILY AND FRIENDS AS TRIBUTE FOR AIDING AND ABETTING MR HORTON'S SLASH AND BURN ,TAKE NO PRISONERS 6 YEAR CONTRACT.[/background]
[background=transparent]YOU ALL SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.[/background]

[background=transparent]I HAVE BEEN A TWU MEMBER FOR OVER 44 YEARS AND HAVE WATCHED MR LITTLE SLOWLY AND WITH THE PRECISION OF A BRAIN SURGEON TAKE THE AA WORK FORCE DOWN TO THE MISERABLE SITUATION IT FINDS ITSELF WHILE HE AND HIS CADRE HAVE DEMANDED AND RECEIVED EXORBIDANT PERSONAL PAYRAISES AND ADDED PERKS, WITH SOME RECENTLY COMPLAINING THAT THEY ARE NOT PAID NEAR ENOUGH FOR THEIR "EXPERTISE","DEDICATION" AND "SERVICE". ...ALL THAT RANK AND FILE HARD EARNED CASH OVER THE YEARS SPENT FOR NOTHING BUT A CONSISTENT RECORD OF CORPORATED APPEASEMENT AND FACILITATION. WHAT A TRAVISTRY! [/background]

[background=transparent]I THANK GOD EVERY DAY THAT I AM NOW AT THE END OF MY "CAREER" BUT I HAVE NOTHING BUT FEAR AND TREPIDATION FOR ALL THOSE I LEAVE BEHIND FOR THEY WILL HAVE TO INDURE UNDER THE FALSE LEADERSHIP OF THE TWU INTERNATIONAL WHICH HAS EVLOVED INTO A DICTORIAL UNDEMOCRATIC MONSTER WITH MR LITTLE AS THE DOCTOR FRANENSTEIN OF HIS FOUL ENTERPRISE.[/background]

[background=transparent]I CAN ONLY IMAGINE WHAT THE INTERNATIONAL HAS IN STORE FOR THE MECHANICS AT AMERICAN AIRLINES...NEWS FLASH ..LOCAL CONSOLIDATION ...JUST A CYNICAL AND VINDICTIVE POWER GRAB BY THE INTERNATIONAL. IT IS ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDING HOW IN SUCH SHORT TIME AFTER THE DOS THE INTERNATIONAL BEARS IT FANGS AND STIKES OUT AT THE RANK AND FILE.WHAT A SICK BUNCH OF UNION "LEADERS".[/background]
[background=transparent]I WOULD TELL YOU ALL TO GO TO HELL BUT SINCE THAT IS WHERE YOU ALL EMERGED FROM THAT WOULD BE EMPTY DIRECTIVE.[/background]
[background=transparent]THE ONLY SOLICE I HAVE FOUND IN THIS HOUSE OF PAIN IS THAT I AM NOT ALONE .EVERY PERSON I KNOW AT AMERICAN FEELS THE SAME WAY I DO AND IS READY AND WILLING AND ABLE TO DO WHAT HAS TO BE DONE TO END THIS AGONY.[/background]

[background=transparent]WHY DON'T YOU TELL THE PRESS AND THE PUBLIC THAT PART OF THE STORY WORTS AND ALL IN YOUR PRESS RELEASES? [/background]

Jerry,
Could you at least delete the guys email before you post on WWW? You are a union rep, act in the member's best interests and don't get him in trouble in your haste to post negative stuff.

 

[Overspeed]

Heard that there was talk among the line station Pres. that a regional three local idea has been discussed? If true isn't that being just like the Intl., with out coming to the membership with any questions or asking for input. There is alot on the companies plate as well as the TWU's are we going to used as pawns from our own Pres. while they figure out who is going to be leading the new local. Vacation bidding, medical selection, layoffs, EO, SIS, how are the decertified locals going to handle these. Is there going to be an election for the New locals? Or are the line station Pres. going to work like the TWU Intl. and just appoint theselves as officers?

We will get a choice to sign/NOT SIGN a new dues check off card I would assume.
Since when you bump, tranfer, you get that option.

Anyone else heard this, Any information will help us all?

Over the years many things have been discussed. What specifically is your issue with one local for line and one for base?

"They" are who? "They" are you and you will be voting in your new line local President and Regional VP. Rojas could be your regions VP and continue handling all your current local's issues. Or he could run for President and run the whole deal.

All the bid issues will still be handled by your existing local until it is decertified and you are rolled in to the new local. There will not be a break in any ongoing issues in any station or local. It will be no different then when you move from one local to the next in a transfer or when new officers get elected. It is not a big deal and the real issue is that there will be fewer officers in MIA. If you look at the TWU Constitution and do the math you can figure out how many board members there will be in the new local. After the merge and RIF the membership will be pretty balanced between line and base. The only issue I have not heard is resolved is the negotiations bylaws. And that doesn't seem too much of an issue based on the roll call vote. If 11 Title 3 Presidents are in the room with 600 T2 roll call votes and two M&R local presidents are in the room representing 8,000 roll call votes who wins? The 11 joint local presidents is another red herring.

 

[Rogallo]

Jerry,
Could you at least delete the guys email before you post on WWW? You are a union rep, act in the member's best interests and don't get him in trouble in your haste to post negative stuff.

Who's Jerry?

Better yet, Who are you???

 

[Overspeed]

Bob's letter on trying defend his kingdom collapsing is funny and fully of stories from make believe land.

Para #1 & 2 - Bob is leveraging local autonomy but forgets fiduciary responsibility to the membership.


The International does not have to consult with the Locals when it comes to financial viability of the locals. The International has the right under the Constitution to reassign members if they are unable to support themselves. The International is being proactive by identifying the new costs due to the elimination of the Baker Letter UBB and that other officers and chairmen are currently “off the bid” and performing local tasks and the long term financial impact. The International would be derelict in its duties if it waited for locals to become insolvent before intervening.

Point #1 - Title II should not go to Fleet Locals


Title II members will continue to have dedicated representation within 507. Local 562 does not provide for a dedicated Title II position on the Executive Board at this time. The International will urge Local 507 to continue to provide a dedicated chairmen for Title II. Title II also cannot go in the Title III book as Title II is not in their class and craft per the NMB.

Point #2 - Negotiations will be screwed up because Fleet Locals will have leverage over M&R


The current negotiating committee bylaws provide for a “roll call” vote. Even if all joint locals send their Presidents to negotiations, the two M&R Presidents can roll call vote every issue and joint local presidents will not be able to override the M&R group. There is no issue.

Point #3 - Costs will not go up due to elimination of the Baker Letter and UBB


A quick look at Local 562’s LM2 shows that nowhere did they pay $4,500 per month if Gukelberger did really go. In fact, Gukelberger must have been paid by the Company to be at negotiations during that time so there is almost no savings other than hotel rooms, food, and rental cars. Another issue is the number of representatives in Local 562 not on UB but off the bid, paid by AA, and working on union issues. All stations do this. Ask around where the union reps are that don’t bid or bid a slot and never show up. Did Bob include those wages in his calculation of savings or is he planning on still cutting deals with MDs and Station Managers for UB that is not really coded UB?

Bottom line is does Bob really want a single local or not? He said in his letter and his previous letters he wants a single local. His arguments about affording the costs are wrong and a simple poll of members as to how many Local E Brd members hardly ever show up easily proves that.

Tell the truth Bob, you are worried about losing your kingdom and the $22K that you get as president. You don't give a damn about the whole membership in fact just like negotiations, if you get more money in your pocket you could care less about overhaul members, Title II members, and Stores members.

Nice try Bob but you are full of it...again!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Bob's letter on trying defend his kingdom collapsing is funny and fully of stories from make believe land.

Para #1 & 2 - Bob is leveraging local autonomy but forgets fiduciary responsibility to the membership.


The International does not have to consult with the Locals when it comes to financial viability of the locals. The International has the right under the Constitution to reassign members if they are unable to support themselves. The International is being proactive by identifying the new costs due to the elimination of the Baker Letter UBB and that other officers and chairmen are currently “off the bid” and performing local tasks and the long term financial impact. The International would be derelict in its duties if it waited for locals to become insolvent before intervening.

Point #1 - Title II should not go to Fleet Locals


Title II members will continue to have dedicated representation within 507. Local 562 does not provide for a dedicated Title II position on the Executive Board at this time. The International will urge Local 507 to continue to provide a dedicated chairmen for Title II. Title II also cannot go in the Title III book as Title II is not in their class and craft per the NMB.

Point #2 - Negotiations will be screwed up because Fleet Locals will have leverage over M&R


The current negotiating committee bylaws provide for a “roll call” vote. Even if all joint locals send their Presidents to negotiations, the two M&R Presidents can roll call vote every issue and joint local presidents will not be able to override the M&R group. There is no issue.

Point #3 - Costs will not go up due to elimination of the Baker Letter and UBB


A quick look at Local 562’s LM2 shows that nowhere did they pay $4,500 per month if Gukelberger did really go. In fact, Gukelberger must have been paid by the Company to be at negotiations during that time so there is almost no savings other than hotel rooms, food, and rental cars. Another issue is the number of representatives in Local 562 not on UB but off the bid, paid by AA, and working on union issues. All stations do this. Ask around where the union reps are that don’t bid or bid a slot and never show up. Did Bob include those wages in his calculation of savings or is he planning on still cutting deals with MDs and Station Managers for UB that is not really coded UB?

Bottom line is does Bob really want a single local or not? He said in his letter and his previous letters he wants a single local. His arguments about affording the costs are wrong and a simple poll of members as to how many Local E Brd members hardly ever show up easily proves that.

Tell the truth Bob, you are worried about losing your kingdom and the $22K that you get as president. You don't give a damn about the whole membership in fact just like negotiations, if you get more money in your pocket you could care less about overhaul members, Title II members, and Stores members.

Nice try Bob but you are full of it...again!

"International has the right..."

And the membership has the right to get rid of the twu.

Go AMFA!

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Over the years many things have been discussed. What specifically is your issue with one local for line and one for base?

"They" are who? "They" are you and you will be voting in your new line local President and Regional VP. Rojas could be your regions VP and continue handling all your current local's issues. Or he could run for President and run the whole deal.

All the bid issues will still be handled by your existing local until it is decertified and you are rolled in to the new local. There will not be a break in any ongoing issues in any station or local. It will be no different then when you move from one local to the next in a transfer or when new officers get elected. It is not a big deal and the real issue is that there will be fewer officers in MIA. If you look at the TWU Constitution and do the math you can figure out how many board members there will be in the new local. After the merge and RIF the membership will be pretty balanced between line and base. The only issue I have not heard is resolved is the negotiations bylaws. And that doesn't seem too much of an issue based on the roll call vote. If 11 Title 3 Presidents are in the room with 600 T2 roll call votes and two M&R local presidents are in the room representing 8,000 roll call votes who wins? The 11 joint local presidents is another red herring.

Overspeed

My issue with the one line local and one O/H maint local is that the TWU Intl is placing the T2 people with a work group that they don't belong with. Its the Intl's way of controlling the members. If thats not true then they should stay with the maint local. NOT be assigned to a fleet service local. Merging AFW & DFW with TUL will again give Tulsa the TWU's strong hold over the membership, The say as to what happens during any future voting, will be controlled by TUL. Tulsa has always had the numbers and as long as the TWU caters to them the voting will be one sided.

Having fewer officers in Miami is not an issue with me since in my opinion most of them are SCAMMERS anyway. That is the opinion of others here as well. Never around and side with Mgmt most of the time so that they can keep up the scamming.
YOU KNOW THE I GOT MINE DEAL> This is MIAMI..

They and who are they? The people I was talking about are the line Pres. until it came out I was unaware along with others that was discussed. And Now the regional locals are being thrown out there in discussion as well with out the members knowledge. They are the officers who want to set up thier kingdoms as you have put it. Keep what $$$ they have. Some traveled around the system telling us that the Pres. council was going to fight AA and when it all came down to it. They Flipped. I guess they forgot just like the TWU Intl that the Union works for US, WE don't work for the TWU. But the TWU seems to think so. maybe they too have been drinking to long from the COOLAIDE JUG.

Some talk a good game but then when it gets tough they fold thier tails and just go along.

 

[bigjets]

If you're going to desolve the locals, why not have one big local out of 214 and have real brotherhood instead of the continuous battle between line and OH.