TWU one line local for maint.

[Chuck Schalk]

AMFA. They have 2,700 members and their president get about $150K. The TWU has 118,000 members and the president gets $225K. At AMFA that is $55 per member and at the TWU it is $2 per member.

At AMFA Delle got a $550K annuity after losing 15,300 members (or 85%) their jobs and then AMFA changed their constitution so no one else gets the same deal. That's sweet!

Does the TWU "own" the ramp? Was that negotiated in our contract? No. We have the right to do the work on AA planes and equipment, not other airlines equipment.

Bob has a special deal. If skipping his required duties as president and getting paid for it is okay then he has a very special deal Chuck. He was paid UBB to perform official union business. Running around playing martyr while his official duties required him to be in DFW is dereliction of duty. Can you go to AA and do other stuff while getting paid to work on airplanes? Oh that's right, you are an Avionics CC. I forgot.

excuse for me interrupting but you have not defended what I said in my last post..........

Howard blades only came to president council meetings when it was time for a vote, but you don't knock him. But thats ok right?

how do you think the members feel about it? I can tell you becuase i hear it everyday. They would like the TWU ATD officers to cut their pay and benefits to our level and then maybe you would not have such a submissive concessionary attitude. The members have had it with we can get them next time , live to fight another day, we saved jobs, we saved the pension foolishness. They tell me that the TWU ATD has failed them. this is what they say and before you blast me ask them first.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

AMFA. They have 2,700 members and their president get about $150K. The TWU has 118,000 members and the president gets $225K. At AMFA that is $55 per member and at the TWU it is $2 per member.

At AMFA Delle got a $550K annuity after losing 15,300 members (or 85%) their jobs and then AMFA changed their constitution so no one else gets the same deal. That's sweet!

Does the TWU "own" the ramp? Was that negotiated in our contract? No. We have the right to do the work on AA planes and equipment, not other airlines equipment.

Bob has a special deal. If skipping his required duties as president and getting paid for it is okay then he has a very special deal Chuck. He was paid UBB to perform official union business. Running around playing martyr while his official duties required him to be in DFW is dereliction of duty. Can you go to AA and do other stuff while getting paid to work on airplanes? Oh that's right, you are an Avionics CC. I forgot.

excuse for me interrupting but you have not defended what I said in my last post..........

Howard blades only came to president council meetings when it was time for a vote, but you don't knock him. But thats ok right?

how do you think the members feel about it? I can tell you becuase i hear it everyday. They would like the TWU ATD officers to cut their pay and benefits to our and level and then maybe you would not have such a submissive concessionary attitude. The members have had it with we can get them next time , live to fight another day, we saved jobs, we saved the pension foolishness. They tell me that the TWU ATD has failed them. this is what they say and before you blast me ask them first.

 

[Rogallo]

All the stuff you are throwing out about Gary came out during the election, and he won. I did ask about the A-4 after the ATD brought it up, and denied getting A-4 (they get A-5s, my bad). His A-4 is also known, and he didn't sell us out to get it.

BTW, Jim Little was in AA management.

They're grasping Bob. They're defeated and they know it.

Now, Insult me please..!!!

 

[strikeforce]

Chuck was removed for not following the TWU Constitution by the International. The same Constitution you either follow or you don't. You like rules as long as they are your rules Ken.

I am neither against nor for appointments. They are appropriate when selecting someone based on skills that meet the requirements for the job. Most positions within the TWU are elected either through direct balloting or through indirect voting through delegates. This is not uncommon and is used in many organizations. AMFA has directly voted in their senior representatives this is true. Depending on how you measure success you can make the argument of which process is better of direct election is your only measure.

AMFA has negotiated top wages to its AMTs at AS and WN this is true. If that is your measure and you credit direct election than you win.

TWU has negotiated a higher number of AMT jobs at AA than any other airline. If number of jobs is your measure than the TWU wins by a landslide.

AMFA had 18,000 members in 2004 and as of 2011 now has 2,700. That's 85% of their members lost their jobs. The TWU had 15,000 AMT members at its peak in 2001 and will have about 8,500 left after reductions related to outsourcing. That's about 40% of its members out of work.

So direct election of officers got you the team that got top pay for 15% of its members and the others lost their jobs. Sweet. Not even you Ken will have a job under that scenario.

I wouldn't go around gloating about saving jobs. you lost job protection for 100% of your members, remember. 1800 members is just the start. the real job loses will come when brand spanking new aircraft arrive to replaced the tired 757, 767 and MD-80 fleets. we'll come back to this post in a few years and compare those numbers. I know one thing.....AMFA mechanics will still make top wages over the worthless union. And BTW, while the worthless union was busy giving away vital resources from the locals i.e. Baker Letter, they sure saved themselves by keeping UBC for International officers. How nice!

 

[Flying low]

Democracy????? hahahahahahahahahahaha

now that's funny!! There is no democracy with "organized" labor. You pay......and shut up!

I still want to know if this includes ALL unions/organizations -- TWU, IBT, CWA, AMFA APA ...

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

ken, you should try to come up with something new. Your tired line of words (you excuse yourself from standing true too) since you bailed out of your elected position are stale, and have little effect. Don't know if you noticed, but the TWU saved many Union jobs today with the announcement of the EO/SIS numbers and how they have eroded the layoff numbers of quality Union jobs. Seems the TWU did a fantastic job at saving many members and their families today and hopefully those who may have to leave us will be short lived before they are to be recalled to their former positions...

Don,

Tired lines? Something new? I am going to try something new and it's called AMFA.

What is it about the twu not being democratic and not being accountable do you not understand?

Quality union jobs? You mean jobs like those in the twu international who never had to worry about being laid off or losing pay and benefits?

Go AMFA!

 

[Realityck]

All the stuff you are throwing out about Gary came out during the election, and he won. I did ask about the A-4 after the ATD brought it up, and denied getting A-4 (they get A-5s, my bad). His A-4 is also known, and he didn't sell us out to get it.

BTW, Jim Little was in AA management.

I'm glad you didn't deny his several previous attempts to get into management since everyone apparently knew about it although I didn't. However, we don't know much about his A4 passes though so why don't you enlighten us? You say he didn't sell us out to get them, so how did he get them?

 

[Overspeed]

Don,

Tired lines? Something new? I am going to try something new and it's called AMFA.

What is it about the twu not being democratic and not being accountable do you not understand?

Quality union jobs? You mean jobs like those in the twu international who never had to worry about being laid off or losing pay and benefits?

Go AMFA!

New? AMFA is not new for you? Remember you are a man of principal you are for AMFA. I mean the TWU, no I mean AMP, oh wait I am for AMFA again. Flip flop, flip flop, flip fop. You stand firm for nothing Ken. How can we trust your judgement? We can't because you can't figure out what you want and you play all sides. Just like you say you are for defending the profession and accepted over $3,500 from AA Corp and union busting group ARSA for the first AMT Charles Taylor. You honor our profession by taking funds from the very people who want to outsource all our union jobs?

Again Ken, just like your picture...plastic and small.

 

[Rogallo]

Is that all ya got.......again?

You answered the first part. How about taking a crack at the second?

What is it about the twu not being democratic and not being accountable do you not understand?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

New? AMFA is not new for you? Remember you are a man of principal you are for AMFA. I mean the TWU, no I mean AMP, oh wait I am for AMFA again. Flip flop, flip flop, flip fop. You stand firm for nothing Ken. How can we trust your judgement? We can't because you can't figure out what you want and you play all sides. Just like you say you are for defending the profession and accepted over $3,500 from AA Corp and union busting group ARSA for the first AMT Charles Taylor. You honor our profession by taking funds from the very people who want to outsource all our union jobs?

Again Ken, just like your picture...plastic and small.

I was not aware height was a requirement for unionism.

Hey, wasn't it YOUR twu that said "Change from within"? I tried changing the twu from within but it is impossible to change the international structure unless one is appointed to the international and that requires selling out the membership which I will not do.

I honor my craft and profession by promoting my craft and profession. You are hung up on who makes donations to the AMTA. You need serious help. You are simply a coward that attempts to promote an industrial, catch all, undemocratic, unaccountable organization/union from behind an alias.

You're fixated on my promotion of my craft and profession. Okay, you want to compare who has done more to promote AMTs? Let's start by your stepping into the light and identify yourself.

Let's see you answer without one of your alter egos answering for you.

Go AMFA!

 

[1AA]

Hey Don at least Ken realizes when something is not working. He also realizes that the TWU will not change unless it affects the FAT CATS such as yourself. He makes efforts to improve our profession. The TWU FAT CATS could care less about the profession because it is all about the money. We all try to improve our profession but you FAT CATS keep road blocking our efforts with that old line "Your out of order brother". Then you attack others for trying to do good because it threatens you guys right where it hurts. In the pocket! Go ahead and put a spin on my post. I can tell you that I have been with AA longer than you and have experienced more crap over the years. It will never change with FAT CATS like you making decisions that do nothing to improve our profession. I am not just speaking for Ken but all of us who believe in the same ideas to improve and maintain our profession. It will improve over time but without the TWU and you FAT CATS sucking up our dues money. Keep posting, we love to read your ideas and mis-point of views.

 

[Overspeed]

I was not aware height was a requirement for unionism.

Hey, wasn't it YOUR twu that said "Change from within"? I tried changing the twu from within but it is impossible to change the international structure unless one is appointed to the international and that requires selling out the membership which I will not do.

I honor my craft and profession by promoting my craft and profession. You are hung up on who makes donations to the AMTA. You need serious help. You are simply a coward that attempts to promote an industrial, catch all, undemocratic, unaccountable organization/union from behind an alias.

You're fixated on my promotion of my craft and profession. Okay, you want to compare who has done more to promote AMTs? Let's start by your stepping into the light and identify yourself.

Let's see you answer without one of your alter egos answering for you.

Go AMFA!

Small meaning narrow in outlook and petty and plastic meaning easily impressionable.

Change from within? Yes the TWU has said that and so did your hero Bob Owens in his 8/17 letter.

Not fixated Ken. If you claim to have high values and integrity why would accept funds to memorialize and honor a man who is the father of our craft from people who aim to destroy it? That goes to your core value, integrity of which you have none as your actions surely demonstrate.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Small meaning narrow in outlook and petty and plastic meaning easily impressionable.

Change from within? Yes the TWU has said that and so did your hero Bob Owens in his 8/17 letter.

Not fixated Ken. If you claim to have high values and integrity why would accept funds to memorialize and honor a man who is the father of our craft from people who aim to destroy it? That goes to your core value, integrity of which you have none as your actions surely demonstrate.

Cowardly meaning being fearful to identify yourself when attempting to defend the twu's undemocratic, unaccountable structure.

I have also taken donations from the twu. Why don't you post that?

You question my integrity? Lol! All from behind an alias... PRICELESS!!!

Go AMFA!

 

[Overspeed]

I wouldn't go around gloating about saving jobs. you lost job protection for 100% of your members, remember. 1800 members is just the start. the real job loses will come when brand spanking new aircraft arrive to replaced the tired 757, 767 and MD-80 fleets. we'll come back to this post in a few years and compare those numbers. I know one thing.....AMFA mechanics will still make top wages over the worthless union. And BTW, while the worthless union was busy giving away vital resources from the locals i.e. Baker Letter, they sure saved themselves by keeping UBC for International officers. How nice!

Again, apply the AMFA WN contract at AA. 2.75 AMTs per aircraft will take AA to 1,650 AMTs using their job protection language. But they are a single fleet operator so let's use CO, they have no scope language or job protection. They have an AMT ratio of 9 to 1 so that takes us to 5,400 AMTs. Even after the BK changes the new AMT per aircraft at AA will be 13 to 1 or 8,000 AMTs under the TWU scope language. Granted that headcount will fluctuate depending on new aircraft but we will always have more AMTs working in-house than AMFA or the IBT based on the TWU scope language. So

So you can have the AMFA pay, but you have to take the AMFA scope language as well. Same with the IBT contract.

You do understand that we had the UA/CO wages with job security and the scope language that had only about 10% of our work being outsourced in the May 2010 TA, right? You know, the one we vote down because the vote no coalition was going to get us more money.

Int'l officers don't get UBC. They are paid out of the TWU membership dues. You know, all 118,000 of them. Just like AMFA officers get paid out of the membership dues, you know all 2,700 of them. They did used to have 18,000 before they "fought" for more jobs and better wages.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Again, apply the AMFA WN contract at AA. 2.75 AMTs per aircraft will take AA to 1,650 AMTs using their job protection language. But they are a single fleet operator so let's use CO, they have no scope language or job protection. They have an AMT ratio of 9 to 1 so that takes us to 5,400 AMTs. Even after the BK changes the new AMT per aircraft at AA will be 13 to 1 or 8,000 AMTs under the TWU scope language. Granted that headcount will fluctuate depending on new aircraft but we will always have more AMTs working in-house than AMFA or the IBT based on the TWU scope language. So

So you can have the AMFA pay, but you have to take the AMFA scope language as well. Same with the IBT contract.

You do understand that we had the UA/CO wages with job security and the scope language that had only about 10% of our work being outsourced in the May 2010 TA, right? You know, the one we vote down because the vote no coalition was going to get us more money.

Int'l officers don't get UBC. They are paid out of the TWU membership dues. You know, all 118,000 of them. Just like AMFA officers get paid out of the membership dues, you know all 2,700 of them. They did used to have 18,000 before they "fought" for more jobs and better wages.

Try applying Northwest management against AMR management scientist! Northwest was out to break AMFA but AMFA fought for the membership because the membership is the union at AMFA. You try and imply that AMFA is bad because Northwest AMTs told their AMFA ELECTED officials that they wanted to strike and fight! They actually did "fight like Hell" but you forget to mention this.

Each airline AMFA represents is represented by people from that airline. Just like when we at AA elect AMFA it will be AA AMTs ELECTED to represent AA AMTS Craft and Class. No appointments necessary.

Wow! 118,000 in the twu membership? And my craft and class at AA make up about 9000 of that 118,000? Your attempt to imply strength in numbers is a hollow sentence when you have skilled AMTS in an industrial union.

I'll take AMFA pay AND AMFA's structure while we have to live under the twu's recently negotiated six year contract that has no scope or positive language/benefits.

Now let the Angry Birds bring me up on Bad Standing charges for a SECOND time because I dare promote a craft union to represent AMTs at AA. But make sure you file charges agains Bobby Gless since he promoted AMFA years ago.

Go AMFA!