TWU negotiations.........what?

[MCI transplant]

I understand...You are probably getting too much sun!

<_< ----- No, too much rum!!! ------ 82 degree's here all day today!!!--- Oh Lord! There go's another Bikini!!!

 

[MCI transplant]

B) ------ All kiddying aside, let me wish you all a "Merry Christmas", and a "Happy New Year"!!!!----- But that was a nice Bikini!!!!

 

[Hopeful]

B) ------ All kiddying aside, let me wish you all a "Merry Christmas", and a "Happy New Year"!!!!

Same to you and yours!

 

[Chuck Schalk]

I am so glad they scaled down the negotiating committee. What happened to the strength in numbers theory? Speaking about numbers, has anybody looked at our total number of employees in our work groups? They are at an all time low in my 19 years and continually dwindling. No one is getting replaced as the influx of retirements continue. I also thought that we were suppose to be keeping headcount not losing it in lieu of 2003 concessions. We are down thousands in head count since 2003, so much for that theory!
Have no fear, our scaled down negotiations will address this and more.....

 

[Hopeful]

I am so glad they scaled down the negotiating committee. What happened to the strength in numbers theory? Speaking about numbers, has anybody looked at our total number of employees in our work groups? They are at an all time low in my 19 years and continually dwindling. No one is getting replaced as the influx of retirements continue. I also thought that we were suppose to be keeping headcount not losing it in lieu of 2003 concessions. We are down thousands in head count since 2003, so much for that theory!
Have no fear, our scaled down negotiations will address this and more.....

Current Title 1 headcount stands at 9586 as per master seniority list. At JFK alone, 5 mechanics have retired since November 2009. There will be more in 2009 as the time frame forces retirements due to the pension formula which is based on the best four years out of the last ten.
This is based on base salary and not overtime wages.
And since there will be no increase in wages and more concessions demanded by the company, I expect more mechanics will seek employment elsewhere.
Those of us who stay will make sure AA continues to get a quality product and a safe one at that.....even it means more delays!

 

[AANOTOK]

No news is what kind of news............

 

[KCKKen]

Current Title 1 headcount stands at 9586 as per master seniority list. At JFK alone, 5 mechanics have retired since November 2009.

I have it on good authority that #8918 on that list will NOT be returning.......
And to think, he would have fit in somewhere around #1239-1252 -- but his union "brothers" would have none of that. Right?

And since there will be no increase in wages and more concessions demanded by the company, I expect more mechanics will seek employment elsewhere.

That's what he's doing.......

Those of us who stay will make sure AA continues to get a quality product and a safe one at that.....even it means more delays!

Good luck -- you'll need it.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

I am so glad they scaled down the negotiating committee. What happened to the strength in numbers theory? Speaking about numbers, has anybody looked at our total number of employees in our work groups? They are at an all time low in my 19 years and continually dwindling. No one is getting replaced as the influx of retirements continue. I also thought that we were suppose to be keeping headcount not losing it in lieu of 2003 concessions. We are down thousands in head count since 2003, so much for that theory!
Have no fear, our scaled down negotiations will address this and more.....

It's downright tragic, especially when you consider the human factors: families to feed, housing and tuition to pay for, etc. I don't think the powers that be in Ft. Worth want to furlough any more than they have to, but keeping the company a going concern is the priority. This last decade was the perfect storm for the US airline industry. To name the larger events: 9/11, Afghan and Iraq wars, SARS, oil spike, recession, swine flu. In some respects the industry is lucky not to have collapsed entirely (and government support averted this at a few critical moments).

I think that in 2003 (before much of the above took place) they really thought that your concessions would avert bankruptcy and return to airline to profitability. But for some reason the airline industry attracts more than its share of "black swan" events.

 

[MCI transplant]

It's downright tragic, especially when you consider the human factors: families to feed, housing and tuition to pay for, etc. I don't think the powers that be in Ft. Worth want to furlough any more than they have to, but keeping the company a going concern is the priority. This last decade was the perfect storm for the US airline industry. To name the larger events: 9/11, Afghan and Iraq wars, SARS, oil spike, recession, swine flu. In some respects the industry is lucky not to have collapsed entirely (and government support averted this at a few critical moments).

I think that in 2003 (before much of the above took place) they really thought that your concessions would avert bankruptcy and return to airline to profitability. But for some reason the airline industry attracts more than its share of "black swan" events.

<_< ------You think, maybe, those "black swans" may really be those in "black suits" there in Ft.Worth?

 

[FWAAA]

I also thought that we were suppose to be keeping headcount not losing it in lieu of 2003 concessions. We are down thousands in head count since 2003, so much for that theory!
Have no fear, our scaled down negotiations will address this and more.....

AA's mainline fleet at 12/31/03 (seven months after the concessions) stood at 770. Recently, the fleet numbered just over 600. Imposition of the concessions did not mean AA would never shrink the maintenance headcount. Fewer airplanes = fewer mechanics required to fix them. Implicit in your post is a promise that AA never made. In 2003, AA demanded over $600 million in annual concessions from the TWU, and furloughs (with no wage cuts) were not among the options presented to the worthless union. Had the concessions not been "approved" (imposed), AA would have furloughed more mechanics and would have sought larger wage cuts.

 

[Hopeful]

The concession-loaded gun pointed to our heads was, in addition to reducing costs, to PREVENT layoffs.. That is what was conveyed to the TWU workforce at the time. However, Jim Little was ready to invoke his TWU Constitutional right to overturn the potential no vote.

You are right about the TWU being a worthless dues depository.
A real union would have rejected every company demand and let AA layoff. THEY DID IT ANYWAY after all workgroups gave back hundreds of millions of dollars.

A real union would have preserved the current pay and benefits and down the road when AA began recalling laid off workers, they would have come back to full pay and beneifts.

You are also right about AA never promising anything. But it was a main point in trying to convince the TWU to buy into the concessions.

Everything gained over the last 4 decades was lost and this company knew damn well they were never going to give anything back. Every concession of every item in the contract would become a bargaining chip all over again.

And I am all for the worthless TWU being replaced by a REAL union. This way, the company would no longer have dues paying organization doing their bidding.

 

[The Goose]

The concession-loaded gun pointed to our heads was, in addition to reducing costs, to PREVENT layoffs.. That is what was conveyed to the TWU workforce at the time. However, Jim Little was ready to invoke his TWU Constitutional right to overturn the potential no vote.

You are right about the TWU being a worthless dues depository.
A real union would have rejected every company demand and let AA layoff. THEY DID IT ANYWAY after all workgroups gave back hundreds of millions of dollars.

A real union would have preserved the current pay and benefits and down the road when AA began recalling laid off workers, they would have come back to full pay and beneifts.

You are also right about AA never promising anything. But it was a main point in trying to convince the TWU to buy into the concessions.

Everything gained over the last 4 decades was lost and this company knew damn well they were never going to give anything back. Every concession of every item in the contract would become a bargaining chip all over again.

And I am all for the worthless TWU being replaced by a REAL union. This way, the company would no longer have dues paying organization doing their bidding.

I'm not sure another union would be the answer.

It's a funny thing, Mr. Hopeful, how a large bribe offsets people's "best" intentions. Even if we could hold a representional election tomorrow and throw out the TWU, what options would there be re: its replacement that, after a time, would be any different than what we (unfortunately) have now?

 

[FWAAA]

The concession-loaded gun pointed to our heads was, in addition to reducing costs, to PREVENT layoffs.. That is what was conveyed to the TWU workforce at the time. However, Jim Little was ready to invoke his TWU Constitutional right to overturn the potential no vote.

Other than the recent announcement about MCIE closing, have there been any large-scale layoffs among AA mechanics since the concessions? The concessions themselves were part paycut, part furlough, but most of the headcount reduction among mechanics has been thru attrition.

You are right about the TWU being a worthless dues depository.
A real union would have rejected every company demand and let AA layoff. THEY DID IT ANYWAY after all workgroups gave back hundreds of millions of dollars.

You're forgetting the Ch 11 filing and large paycut demands that AA would have made had the concessions been rejected. Nobody knows how large those paycuts would have turned out to be, but layoffs alone weren't among the options.

A real union would have preserved the current pay and benefits and down the road when AA began recalling laid off workers, they would have come back to full pay and beneifts.

That wasn't among the choices. Pay and benefits would come down outside Ch 11 (as they did) or inside bankruptcy (as they did at US, UA, DL and NW). CO mechanics gave back outside Ch 11 as well. Come back at full pay? Only in fantasyland. Since no other bankrupt legacy passenger airline's mechanics escaped unscathed, it looks like under your standard, there are no real unions among any of them.

Everything gained over the last 4 decades was lost and this company knew damn well they were never going to give anything back. Every concession of every item in the contract would become a bargaining chip all over again.

Of course that was the plan. You didn't realize it almost seven years ago? You're not that naïve, are you?

Had conditions actually improved (you know, like a return to the finances of the late 1990s), and billion dollar plus profits returned, you (and the pilots and FAs) would have had plenty of leverage to demand a return of the givebacks. But with net profits in only two of the last ten years (and small profits at that), the chances of getting anything back were very small. The economy actually did very well as a whole in 2002-2008, but the passenger airline industry remained in the toilet. Now that we're mired in "the worst downturn since the Great Depression" (according to the Messiah), the chances of "restore and more" have probably fallen to zero.

 

[eolesen]

The concession-loaded gun pointed to our heads was, in addition to reducing costs, to PREVENT layoffs.. That is what was conveyed to the TWU workforce at the time.

Looks like those layoffs were prevented...

M&R:

Outsource Title II Classifications
(facilities/automotive mechanics, plant maintenance, & building cleaning)
$65M annual savings

Outsource Building/Cabin Cleaners and Utility
$1M annual savings

M&E Base Title I outsourcing (Close AFW, MCI, APU, Composities, TAESL, TEO)
$100M annual savings

Use OSMs for non-A&P Skills
$3M annual savings

Minimize specialty job classifications (Title I)
$11M annual savings

Simplify bidding process for moves
$6M annual savings

Modify Crew Chief ratio (differs between M&R and FSC)
$17M annual savings

Base staffing simplification
$9M annual savings

Implement 4/10s schedule on AC overhaul docks
$3M annual savings

Fleet Svc

Outsource non-hub cargo operations
$6M annual savings

Outsource all cabin cleaning
$49M annual savings

Outsource fueling operations
$4M annual savings

Outsource bus driving
$1M annual savings

Outsource container / tub movers and interline transfers
$2M annual savings

Eliminate the "go-get" teams reference: Eagle transfers
$6M annual savings

Increase station outsourcing (Up to 25 Daily Departures)
$69M annual savings

Modify Crew Chief ratio (differs between M&R and FSC)
$2M annual savings

Eliminate part-time cap (system & station)
$6M annual savings

I won't pretend to know what was & wasn't implemented in the final version of the RPA, but there's a lot of stuff up there that I know is still insourced and not implemented as shown in the 1113c proposals...

 

[Bob Owens]

Other than the recent announcement about MCIE closing, have there been any large-scale layoffs among AA mechanics since the concessions? The concessions themselves were part paycut, part furlough, but most of the headcount reduction among mechanics has been thru attrition.

You're wrong. I dont know why you keep insisting that you know what was conveyed to us. We had a number to meet, IIRC the choice was through the concessions or 2200 jobs, When the union said cut the jobs the company backed out and said they couldnt run the company if they cut 2200 M&R jobs, so they took the concessions and then eliminated 3500 M&R jobs.

You're forgetting the Ch 11 filing and large paycut demands that AA would have made had the concessions been rejected. Nobody knows how large those paycuts would have turned out to be, but layoffs alone weren't among the options.

We have a pretty good idea by what the courts had already imposed over at USAIR and UAL, in both cases the court imposed paycuts were less than what we gave up, in fact we gave up so much that they had to go back to court for more.

Had conditions actually improved (you know, like a return to the finances of the late 1990s), and billion dollar plus profits returned, you (and the pilots and FAs) would have had plenty of leverage to demand a return of the givebacks. But with net profits in only two of the last ten years (and small profits at that), the chances of getting anything back were very small. The economy actually did very well as a whole in 2002-2008, but the passenger airline industry remained in the toilet. Now that we're mired in "the worst downturn since the Great Depression" (according to the Messiah), the chances of "restore and more" have probably fallen to zero.

Well right across the taxiway at JFK there are A&P mechanics doing the same thing we do for over $10/hr more. The companys bottom line is not our concern when it comes to setting our rates of pay. If you are selling something to someone do you ask them what they can afford and set your price by what they say or do you see how much the item you are selling goes for and shoot for that? Well the most recent contract at SWA was for $45/hour. So we should be trying to top that. The fact is if AA brought in $50 billion a year they would still find a reason why they cant pay us. Do we sit back and let all the other corporations that feed off the airlines take everything, thus providing AA with the excuse that there's nothing less for us or simply grab as much as we can regardless of what the airline says they can afford to pay? I say grab whatever we can get.