TWU negotiations.........what?

[The Goose]

this where the leadership comes in. The international must be in the front banging the drum for retro, followed by the presidents and the executive boards and finally the members supporting them. The chain builds strength with each link or loses strength with the loss of any link. Retro in my opinion is a seperate issue and non-negotiable.

I hate to say it, Chuck, but it's been so long since I've seen leadership anywhere, I may not recognize it even if it slapped me.

So far, the only examples we've all seen is what leadership is not.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

I hate to say it, Chuck, but it's been so long since I've seen leadership anywhere, I may not recognize it even if it slapped me.

So far, the only examples we've all seen is what leadership is not.

That is a true observation. We must not allow silence to be our guide. The time to speak out is now to what our basic needs are and stop letting the industry dictate. we must speak in unison from all stations to our International leaders as well as the company. Retro is only one of the battle cries that must be heard loud and clear.

 

[MTheory]

this where the leadership comes in. The international must be in the front banging the drum for retro, followed by the presidents and the executive boards and finally the members supporting them. The chain builds strength with each link or loses strength with the loss of any link. Retro in my opinion is a seperate issue and non-negotiable.

Mr. Schalk;

I am new to this board, but have been in the business for many years. I agree with most of what you say, but as a Local 562 VP, why would you dig your heels in on retro when no raise has been offered? If as you say it is non-negotiable, then what do you do if it is not offered?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Mr. Schalk;

I am new to this board, but have been in the business for many years. I agree with most of what you say, but as a Local 562 VP, why would you dig your heels in on retro when no raise has been offered? If as you say it is non-negotiable, then what do you do if it is not offered?

you must seperate the issues. If we do not get retro then the company will get their 2 year extension that they originally wanted and will be a concession again. The owners of the contract have the power to demand retro in the spirit of representing their members from their level of leadership. What do you suggest about retro?

 

[MTheory]

you must seperate the issues. If we do not get retro then the company will get their 2 year extension that they originally wanted and will be a concession again. The owners of the contract have the power to demand retro in the spirit of representing their members from their level of leadership. What do you suggest about retro?

Yes, we do have the power to demand...anything we want. But demands that are not tempered by the current economic reality will not be taken seriously. Especially of there is no leverage to exact your demand. Retro should be on the table, like any other negotiated item. Doesnt mean youll get it. Unfortunatly for us, it looks like the Company will get their extention. But we live in a free market economy. With current labor laws in place and the onerous RLA, unions can not control the supply of labor. Therefore wages will be determined by supply and demand market conditions. Some Unions have found ways to make it more difficult to enter a craft or proffession, controlling the size of the labor pool of the class or craft they represent. But I doubt that the TWU will go for that. We must adjust to what is reality, otherwise we are just dancing in the desert praying for rain.

 

[scorpion]

I agree, I am not surrendering the RETRO by any means. My fear is that after mediation is exhausted which I think is 18 months (really not too sure), The company might be inclined to give back what they took back two years past contract expiration and a majority of the membership might be inclined to vote yes. By not giving retro coupled with, as you stated, the money we have saved them, RETRO won't have costed them a dime.
Sadly, I expect this action from the company, but I fear the membership might buy it.

Its been a while since ive posted but i tune in to the boards every now and then without making a coment. This retro issue has really got a burr under my saddle!

Retro should be a given to any union governed by the railway labor act and i'm surprised that its not part of the act itself considering the way companies can use it to stall negotiations in order to save money.
This group of people runnning the company have no intention of giving anything back regardless of whether or not retro is part of the equation. So dont kid yourself into thinking that you might have the option of voting on a contract that gives you everything back and no retro included.
Concerns about retro are popping up more and more at union meetings so its going to be hard to ignore the issue but it needs to be at the forefront of all talks with the company from this point on.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Yes, we do have the power to demand...anything we want. But demands that are not tempered by the current economic reality will not be taken seriously. Especially of there is no leverage to exact your demand. Retro should be on the table, like any other negotiated item. Doesnt mean youll get it. Unfortunatly for us, it looks like the Company will get their extention. But we live in a free market economy. With current labor laws in place and the onerous RLA, unions can not control the supply of labor. Therefore wages will be determined by supply and demand market conditions. Some Unions have found ways to make it more difficult to enter a craft or proffession, controlling the size of the labor pool of the class or craft they represent. But I doubt that the TWU will go for that. We must adjust to what is reality, otherwise we are just dancing in the desert praying for rain.

Retro should be to us what the eight hour day is to the company. It is non negotiable.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Yes, we do have the power to demand...anything we want. But demands that are not tempered by the current economic reality will not be taken seriously. Especially of there is no leverage to exact your demand. Retro should be on the table, like any other negotiated item. Doesnt mean youll get it. Unfortunatly for us, it looks like the Company will get their extention. But we live in a free market economy. With current labor laws in place and the onerous RLA, unions can not control the supply of labor. Therefore wages will be determined by supply and demand market conditions. Some Unions have found ways to make it more difficult to enter a craft or proffession, controlling the size of the labor pool of the class or craft they represent. But I doubt that the TWU will go for that. We must adjust to what is reality, otherwise we are just dancing in the desert praying for rain.

"the current economic realitiy" now that is rolling over. I suspect you are yet another company prole sent here. Go back tell your boss RETRO is a deal breaker when we finally get something to vote on. In 20 years at AA I have never seen them so blatantly disregard the workforce. Example at AFW in the hangar we did have 4/10s, they pulled that away from us, yet when it comes to acting crew chiefs they still try to play by the 4/10 rules. That is but one example.We all remember getting the daily beating over our head about a penny increase in oil costs the company xx amount in costs. Well I may have missed it but I have not heard one thing about how the drop in oil has saved the company. That is "current economic reality" 147/bbl to 40/bbl in 6months, spin that. Buying, ordering new airplanes in the "current economic reality" spin that! NO, RETRO is a must have. I have stated before we have already self funded our new contract by virtue of the cost savings we have generated and revenue brought in by maintenance. I mean for crying out loud I was getting a 1.5% raise the past 6 Mays then a 5% increase in my medical costs the following 6 Januarys. Spin that.

 

[Bob Owens]

"the current economic realitiy" now that is rolling over. I suspect you are yet another company prole sent here. Go back tell your boss RETRO is a deal breaker when we finally get something to vote on. In 20 years at AA I have never seen them so blatantly disregard the workforce. Example at AFW in the hangar we did have 4/10s, they pulled that away from us, yet when it comes to acting crew chiefs they still try to play by the 4/10 rules. That is but one example.We all remember getting the daily beating over our head about a penny increase in oil costs the company xx amount in costs. Well I may have missed it but I have not heard one thing about how the drop in oil has saved the company. That is "current economic reality" 147/bbl to 40/bbl in 6months, spin that. Buying, ordering new airplanes in the "current economic reality" spin that! NO, RETRO is a must have. I have stated before we have already self funded our new contract by virtue of the cost savings we have generated and revenue brought in by maintenance. I mean for crying out loud I was getting a 1.5% raise the past 6 Mays then a 5% increase in my medical costs the following 6 Januarys. Spin that.

Its like the guy crying poverty who pulls into his driveway with a brand new car.
AA has ordered billions worth of new airplanes but they are cryaing poverty to their workers.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Its like the guy crying poverty who pulls into his driveway with a brand new car.
AA has ordered billions worth of new airplanes but they are cryaing poverty to their workers.

Roger That!!!

 

[MTheory]

"the current economic realitiy" now that is rolling over. I suspect you are yet another company prole sent here. Go back tell your boss RETRO is a deal breaker when we finally get something to vote on. In 20 years at AA I have never seen them so blatantly disregard the workforce. Example at AFW in the hangar we did have 4/10s, they pulled that away from us, yet when it comes to acting crew chiefs they still try to play by the 4/10 rules. That is but one example.We all remember getting the daily beating over our head about a penny increase in oil costs the company xx amount in costs. Well I may have missed it but I have not heard one thing about how the drop in oil has saved the company. That is "current economic reality" 147/bbl to 40/bbl in 6months, spin that. Buying, ordering new airplanes in the "current economic reality" spin that! NO, RETRO is a must have. I have stated before we have already self funded our new contract by virtue of the cost savings we have generated and revenue brought in by maintenance. I mean for crying out loud I was getting a 1.5% raise the past 6 Mays then a 5% increase in my medical costs the following 6 Januarys. Spin that.

I am who I am. I agree with every fiber of my being that retro SHOULD me automatic, to prevent what is happeneing now. Problem is, it is not. That is reality. Insulting me and ignoring the labor laws that we work under will not solve the problem. Laws and societys views on unions are what must change in order to change how we negotiate. How many of us voted for McCain? Unfortunately, what we lost and what are contract is now is irrelevent to the current state of negotiations. No matter how unfair it is. Your issues at AFW should be addressed to your Local union leadership. You have some valid points that need to be looked into.

 

[MTheory]

Its like the guy crying poverty who pulls into his driveway with a brand new car.
AA has ordered billions worth of new airplanes but they are cryaing poverty to their workers.

Mr Owens;

Take a look at the 2008 4th qtr balace sheet. The poverty is real. Problem is it is probably orchestrated to control labor costs.

 

[Hopeful]

Mr Owens;

Take a look at the 2008 4th qtr balace sheet. The poverty is real. Problem is it is probably orchestrated to control labor costs.

No poverty for the executives.


Sounds to me like MTheory is a management crony who just began posting here.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

No poverty for the executives.


Sounds to me like MTheory is a management crony who just began posting here.

Ya nailed that one hopeful

 

[MTheory]

No poverty for the executives.


Sounds to me like MTheory is a management crony who just began posting here.

Please enlighten me as to what was "pro management"???

I posted here because Mr. Schalk who is an elected Union leader has posted his views on retro pay. I would like to hear his ideas on how he can achieve his goals. So far no answer. I would like a million bucks, but talk is cheap.