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TWU negotiations.........what?

The new hangar? Few million a year. Rounding error for a company with $24 billion of annual revenue.

I'd agree with you if AA had announced a huge order for 787s - like perhaps 100 or more of them. And hundreds of 190/195s and hundreds of 738s. THAT kind of spending would signify management confidence in its labor situation.

Don't get me wrong - AMR Management may in fact be confident it has a sweet deal already lined up with the worthless union leadership - my disagreement is that any of the company's current actions are evidence of that confidence. All I see is cautious, conservative spending - it really isn't "billions" as you mentioned.
While the Hangar at DFW is already built/ we will be leasing it I believe/ this will not cost as much as some believe. As for the new TUL hangar, that will be paid for by the State of Oklahoma, the govenor gave AA a check a few weeks ago for a new hangar, and supposedly they/Oklahoma/ expects AA to hire several hundred more employees, silly them, didn't anyone tell them that we have to recall the laid off workers first!
As for the aircraft wait till the Paris Airshow/sometime in June/, AA will announce a big Boeing order then.
To me it sounds like the contract is a done deal, as some other posters have said, Don't know why Burchette needs to go to school to figure out what we want. This should be a no brainer, we should start at where we were in 03. This of course is just my .02.
 
New aircraft interiors? Pocket change, not billions. New interiors will draw higher revenue

My own observation is that interiors mean very little to passengers. Good in-flight service and short lines at ticket counters and security would counteract all the ill will that I hear from AA passengers.

Given the reality that negative experiences are far stronger than positive ones, AA should get rid of the negatives first. An unhappy passenger is not going to forget the long lines and poor service just because of a new rug or the removal of a closet so an extra seat can be installed.
 
Well the structure of Locals tend to be common, sure there are differences but there is little doubt that consolidation could not be any worse than what we have now. At the very least we would end up with a better financed Local. One of the problems with the current structure is that there is no one that can be held responsible. A powerless Local President could reasonably claim that he had fought for what the members wanted but other locals were not on board, in fact they all could make the same claim without any means available for verification by the members.

Consolidation, if it continued through the contract group could lead to ownership of the contract by that singular Local, like most other Locals have. If everyone under the contract was in one Local there would no longer be a need for International ownership of the contract.
Fair enough, but I think that two very different concepts are behing discussed here. One is an International conspired deal of a singular voice from the line chosen by the Presidents of the five Locals. That I disagree with, the other is to merge the line locals into one local, One president and one E-board. That I favor, as long as they go with an electronic local.
I remember it well.
Thats because the law makes the assumption that the person or persons making that decision will ultimately be held accountable during an election, as is the norm. While it is very common to have one Local that has several contracts its much less common to have twenty Locals under one contract. This is the main source of our problems. The structure keeps the members divided and powerless while the International has immunity from electoral accountability from the members at AA.
You cant check what isnt there. As the lawsuit pointed out none of these locals are party to the agreement.All that having several line locals does is dilute the financial resources of line local members by having the expense of five locals, all under one contract where none of them are party to it.
When the issue of recall was brought up at the 2001 Convention Sonny Hall tstified that any Local that wanted to put recall provisions in their bylaws was free to do so, I believe that some already have them. So under one Local we could have recall.
Well actually the dictaorship lies with the International. However in their attempt to construct the illusion of democracy they allow Tulsa to weild a roll call vote at Presidents council meetings. This practice allows the President from Tulsa to totally ignore the needs of any other workgroup. The only thing that having 5 line locals does is give line mechs " five witnesses". The fact is line mechs would have more of a say in things if we were all included in Local 514.

You may find that incredible but let me illustarate a point.

One of the most critical stations for anyone running for office at Local 562 is SJU. SJU?? They only have 50 guys compared to 400 at JFK and 100 at LGA. Why is SJU so critical? Because they vote and because they usually vote the same. SJU can not be ignored by anyone seeking an "at large" position in Local 562.

Lets say we were all in Local 514, sure the President would most likely be someone from Tulsa(Just as every President from Local 562 has been from JFK) but in order to win no candidate could afford to ignore 4000 line workers, especially if they have a high turnout. (Typically, local 514 Presidents get into office with less than one third of the memberships vote)

The fact is we know that what we have now is totally ineffective. We have an unaccountable International that owns the contract. We have 5 small, financially strapped, powerless locals that are unable to challenge the International.Sure it provides a good gig for the few that can escape the floor and pick up an extra twenty grand or so but it doesnt do anything for the majority of members. Having a more consolidated but just as accountable local can put us in a better position than where we are now, at its worst we could end up with what we have now.

Bob,
Last points first: other than the Credit Union, there is no Union on the property for maintenance and related. We are extorted for dues as a condition of employment by the TWU. The frightening thing is that the majority of AMTs' don't care.

Some two years ago, and after my resignation of the elected position I held; we found that AA Management was allowing employees to report for duty on a "CSW" without actually having covered anyone on a "CSO". In fact, AA Management was violating the overtime article in the CBA by proffering straight time hours for work that should have been covered by overtime. I requested that a grievance be filed by one of the affected shifts: they filed. Management then began to threaten the deals they had made for improper adjustments to hours worked due to "CSW" on overlapping shifts: to a man, everyone caved and then began to blame me for threatening the deals they had made with AA. I held, and still hold, that as a CC I cannot work anyone outside of the CBA and AA Regs. AA mangement, the TWU and the AMTs' disagree.

To the same extent, the Officer of a Local or International is only responsibled to the membership that elects them; that position is consistent throughout the various rulings in Federal Court(Reno Airlines).

Consolidating power into a position subject to extreme manipulation with respect to the Line Locals simply embodies a greater degree of manipulation by the International. If that were not true, both you and Chuck would not be in bad standing.

I will agree that shaking the tree to drop the loose nuts is a sound approach; I will not agree that hoping all of the loose nuts can be dropped from one tree as opposed to five different trees is sound strategy. Fractures present more surface area against which pressure can be applied; the probability that a satisfactory result will be produced increases as a factor of the number of fractures and the pressure applied to the presented facets.

Consolidation, a monolithic block, presents a set number of facets vastly reduced from the present.

In the end, the pressure extant on the presented facet is the variable. Given what I've seen with respect to the AMT's in my station: there is no pressure because absent a viable Union all we have is Independant Contractors forced to pay dues.
 
I have previously told managment in public meetings that productivity is directly related to employee moral. They will not acknowledge this as a viable factor of performance. I guess ninth place is an indicator of a good working relationship?
 
I have previously told managment in public meetings that productivity is directly related to employee moral. They will not acknowledge this as a viable factor of performance.

AA is well aware of the positive effects of high morale. They just think that fear and manipulation are more efficient.


That video being shown in Tulsa is but one example.
 
Tex-ass !!!

NH/BB
:angry: FU :huh:


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OK.."junkie", I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and say that your a good..stand up...UNION person !!

However,

The # 1 problem for the AA Union people, SYSTEM WIDE, are the KOOL AID drinking, COMPANY, COWARDS, from Texas, and OKIE-HOMA !!!

Grandma had an ol' saying. ......... "If the SHOE fits, ....Wear IT" !!

NH/BB's
 
AA is well aware of the positive effects of high morale. They just think that fear and manipulation are more efficient.
That video being shown in Tulsa is but one example.

AA management is not only aware of what positive morale can do, but they have a great fear of it.

The ship of fools knows very well it wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of controlling its workforce if there were positive morale - that seems to be why Overland was hired.

If Overland's real purpose was to help improve operations and labor relations, they would have been all over AA like a cheap suit for the things that are being done, but in reality they're simply trying harder to find ways to sell the company line.
 
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

OK.."junkie", I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and say that your a good..stand up...UNION person !!

However,

The # 1 problem for the AA Union people, SYSTEM WIDE, are the KOOL AID drinking, COMPANY, COWARDS, from Texas, and OKIE-HOMA !!!

Grandma had an ol' saying. ......... "If the SHOE fits, ....Wear IT" !!

NH/BB's


I agree, I have no use for the "Dues Collection Agency" they call the TWU.

I was born and raised in Texas, and I don't appreciate some 'yankee' dogging my state. Dog the people working for AA in DFW, (most are probably from another state)but leave the GREAT State of Texas alone.
 
Bob,
Last points first: other than the Credit Union, there is no Union on the property for maintenance and related. We are extorted for dues as a condition of employment by the TWU. The frightening thing is that the majority of AMTs' don't care.

Dont care? I dont believe thats the case. I suppose that Nat Turner may have felt that slaves didnt care about slavery or they would have joined him. I think the problem has more to do with a feeling of powerlessness than a lack of concern.


Some two years ago, and after my resignation of the elected position I held; we found that AA Management was allowing employees to report for duty on a "CSW" without actually having covered anyone on a "CSO". In fact, AA Management was violating the overtime article in the CBA by proffering straight time hours for work that should have been covered by overtime. I requested that a grievance be filed by one of the affected shifts: they filed. Management then began to threaten the deals they had made for improper adjustments to hours worked due to "CSW" on overlapping shifts: to a man, everyone caved and then began to blame me for threatening the deals they had made with AA. I held, and still hold, that as a CC I cannot work anyone outside of the CBA and AA Regs. AA mangement, the TWU and the AMTs' disagree.

This is a result of your opening statement. The fact that we lack a real union and have no leadership.

To the same extent, the Officer of a Local or International is only responsibled to the membership that elects them; that position is consistent throughout the various rulings in Federal Court(Reno Airlines).

I wish that was the case but thats not how the court always looks at it, look up the case with the IBT and the NWA Flight Attendants Local. Inthat case the court ruled that the International has the right to remove duly elected officials if they dont do whatever the International demends, even if its against their members wishes.

Consolidating power into a position subject to extreme manipulation with respect to the Line Locals simply embodies a greater degree of manipulation by the International.

I dont see how its any more subject to manipulation than whats in place now.

If that were not true, both you and Chuck would not be in bad standing.

If this had been in place and Chuck and I held the same positions in it they would have been less likely to get away with it.

Consolidation, a monolithic block, presents a set number of facets vastly reduced from the present.
In the end, the pressure extant on the presented facet is the variable.

The problem is that the members influence, as far as electoral power, is the element thats fractured, and its the International shaking the tree. Since the International is in bed with the company we have to look at it as one and the same.


Given what I've seen with respect to the AMT's in my station: there is no pressure because absent a viable Union all we have is Independant Contractors forced to pay dues.

Agreed.
 
I agree, I have no use for the "Dues Collection Agency" they call the TWU.

I was born and raised in Texas, and I don't appreciate some 'yankee' dogging my state. Dog the people working for AA in DFW, (most are probably from another state)but leave the GREAT State of Texas alone.


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

OK, "junkie", I heard what you said.

BUT, You still have'nt directed your OBVIOUS anger, to the proper "area", meaning that(AND I WOULD GAMBLE MY LIFE SAVINGS ON THE FOLLOWING😉 that the MAJORITY of your native born brothers/sisters-FROM THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS, are KOOL AID drinking...."YES" voters for the TWU !!

Now your reply to that would be what ??


NH/BB's
 
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

OK, "junkie", I heard what you said.

BUT, You still have'nt directed your OBVIOUS anger, to the proper "area", meaning that(AND I WOULD GAMBLE MY LIFE SAVINGS ON THE FOLLOWING😉 that the MAJORITY of your native born brothers/sisters-FROM THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS, are KOOL AID drinking...."YES" voters for the TWU !!

Now your reply to that would be what ??
NH/BB's

Let's clairfy. Are we talking fleet or A/C maint?
 
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OK, "junkie", I heard what you said.

BUT, You still have'nt directed your OBVIOUS anger, to the proper "area", meaning that(AND I WOULD GAMBLE MY LIFE SAVINGS ON THE FOLLOWING😉 that the MAJORITY of your native born brothers/sisters-FROM THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS, are KOOL AID drinking...."YES" voters for the TWU !!

Now your reply to that would be what ??
NH/BB's
Bears, coming to DFW from NY, I can certainly see where you are coming from, but I'd have to say you are wrong about DFW A/C Maintenance. Sure we have our share of yes men, bootlickers, and the like, but so does most stations these days. The 2003 concessions vote is a telling story for this station, as it was shot down almost 3 to 1. That's 3 to 1 with a local pushing for the membership to vote for it with the BK threats/misinformation campaign, and figuring in that those who got laid off probally voted as they were told voting for it would save their jobs is pretty darn good. What we have always lacked at this station is strong leadership. We have had many with good intentions go into office but we all know what happens next. Compared to the title 2, and their 90% vote in favor of concessions, this is a much more radical group then you make us out to be. 😉
 
The title 2 vote in my opinion reflects the station that it's held in. In the northeast wages for skilled labor tend to be dramatically higher than in the south. Most line stations are now starting new hires at step 4 with a six month top out. Many people I work with have second jobs paying as much off the bat as aa is after years of service. The threat of a job loss isn't nearly what it was 5 years ago. And at the rate of wage stagnation, it is only a matter of time before it will be a second job in itself.
 
The title 2 vote in my opinion reflects the station that it's held in. In the northeast wages for skilled labor tend to be dramatically higher than in the south.
You are correct. The title 2 crowd at DFW also falls for the "boo" factor at each contract. They are already scared this time with the rumor/threat of the terminal maintenance being done by DFW airport contractors.
 
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