TWU negotiations.........what?

[Wretched Wrench]

fraud could have easily been accomplished using the system that AAA had in place.

I'm shocked! SHOCKED! I have never, ever, heard of a union election being rigged.

IIRC, the company counting the votes was connected to a former as well as a current AA director. Maybe someone here will have a more complete memory.

 

[eolesen]

Anne McNamara (former General Counsel for AMR) was on the board of directors for the American Arbitration Association (AAA).

Perhaps FWAAA or TWAnr want to comment on the professional ramifications, but the claims of the AAA allowing rigging or other intentional improprieties to take place is nothing but a red herring. I don't know of any lawyer who will risk their license (or their reputation) just to promote their former company's agenda.

It's also stated on their website "No special treatment of any kind is given to neutrals or directors when or if they do file cases or use election services. AAA employees are held to the AAA Standards of Ethics and Business Conduct requiring impartiality in providing AAA administrative services. "

You can read the full text at http://www.adr.org/sp.asp?id=22036

Now, whether or not there was rigging on the part of the unions or the company is another story, as are the questions over just how random PIN generation was, but I don't think AAA did anything intentionally stupid or illegal.

 

[mjk]

The title of this thread instantly made me think of this...

What?!?!?!!!

 

[The Goose]

Anne McNamara (former General Counsel for AMR) was on the board of directors for the American Arbitration Association (AAA).

Perhaps FWAAA or TWAnr want to comment on the professional ramifications, but the claims of the AAA allowing rigging or other intentional improprieties to take place is nothing but a red herring. I don't know of any lawyer who will risk their license (or their reputation) just to promote their former company's agenda.

It's also stated on their website "No special treatment of any kind is given to neutrals or directors when or if they do file cases or use election services. AAA employees are held to the AAA Standards of Ethics and Business Conduct requiring impartiality in providing AAA administrative services. "

You can read the full text at http://www.adr.org/sp.asp?id=22036

Now, whether or not there was rigging on the part of the unions or the company is another story, as are the questions over just how random PIN generation was, but I don't think AAA did anything intentionally stupid or illegal.

That would depend entirely on the amount of money involved, wouldn't it?

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I don't know of any lawyer who will risk their license (or their reputation) just to promote their former company's agenda.

I believe Ms McNamara was also a senior VP and one of the SERP beneficiaries. After retiring from AA, she was paid by AA as a consultant until May 2003. Nice timing, that.

So, she had conflict of interest there, both as a retiree with a stake in the company's finances, and as a paid consultant.

Her husband, Philip Purcell was a member of AMR's board of directors. He was subject to some harsh comment by the chairman of the SEC over that connection.

So, Ms McNamara had a little conflict of interest there, too.

. AAA employees are held to the AAA Standards of Ethics and Business Conduct requiring impartiality in providing AAA administrative services.

Apparently they have a pretty flexible ethics standards where conflict of interest is concerned. Or maybe directors are above the so-called standards of ethics.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Bear I realize that the bases are the majority of the problem. Although it was not by very much,AFW voted no. The majority of the yes voters came from 530-KC and 514-Tulsa. Tulsa voted 68% yes and KC voted 73% yes. Chuck mentioned fear facture and I agree Chicken Little didn't have the balls to show up at the 2nd largest local (AFW). He decided to send his flunky lawyer. We had a group of about 10 people from AFW that went to Tulsa to pass out fliers at the Brady Theater in Tulsa when Chicken Little showed up for his fear campaign. The 514 was informed informed of their intention and arrival in advance by one of the people in the group and they were not allowed in. I don't know of any other union/local that would not allow a member in good standings in to another locals meeting.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

767 mechanic,

THANK YOU for correcting/informing me !!!

I will NEVER make that mistake again, I promise(about AFW)

For a base(AFW), with all of the people there, located "deep in the heart of Texas", to have the courage to vote NO(because the contract SUCKED), to me SPEAKS VOLUMES.

I SINCERELY hope that you and your fellow brothers and sister union members, take GREAT PRIDE by distancing yourselves from the COWARDS in TUL and MCI.

Again, feel proud, you DESERVE IT !!


NH/BB's

ps,
One LAST question.
What is the DFW local, for line AMT's ??

Thanx

 

[ch53D]

So, then, were all 44 votes on the chart cast by mechanics?

Yes. I was asked to put out Title I numbers and 590 shows those numbers for Title I.

 

[eolesen]

I believe Ms McNamara was also a senior VP and one of the SERP beneficiaries. After retiring from AA, she was paid by AA as a consultant until May 2003. Nice timing, that.

She retired in Feb 2003, and the three month consultant gig is fairly standard in senior positions to allow for turnover.

So, she had conflict of interest there, both as a retiree with a stake in the company's finances, and as a paid consultant.

Absolutely, she had a conflict of interest. But that doesn't mean she had any involvement with the actual work that AAA was conducting, and it shouldn't rule out using AAA's services. Lawyers and judges recuse themselves all the time when there's even a hint of conflict, so I would expect the same to have held true in this case.

Her husband, Philip Purcell was a member of AMR's board of directors. He was subject to some harsh comment by the chairman of the SEC over that connection.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that connection. When did they get married in relation to his nomination to the board?

 

[AMFAMAN]

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


One LAST question.
What is the DFW local, for line AMT's ??

Thanx

Local 565, it was shot down 2 to 1 despite some big time fear factor crap put out by the then local president, who is now enjoying his Intl. payoff job.

 

[MCI transplant]

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

767 mechanic,

THANK YOU for correcting/informing me !!!

I will NEVER make that mistake again, I promise(about AFW)

For a base(AFW), with all of the people there, located "deep in the heart of Texas", to have the courage to vote NO(because the contract SUCKED), to me SPEAKS VOLUMES.

I SINCERELY hope that you and your fellow brothers and sister union members, take GREAT PRIDE by distancing yourselves from the COWARDS in TUL and MCI.

Again, feel proud, you DESERVE IT !!
NH/BB's

ps,
One LAST question.
What is the DFW local, for line AMT's ??

Thanx

<_< ----Bear it's real easy to call people "Cowards" when your retired, sitting back in your easy chair,with your computor, and looking at it in hindsight! I can't speak for those in TUL, but maybe I can give you a little insight on what went on here at MCI.---- If you remember at that time the "Overhaul Base" was on AA's hit list, and everyone know it! I have no doubt in my mind that, at that time, AA had every intention of shutting us down. Now remember, under Kasher's ruling, if that happened, most would have nowhere to go but the street. Remeber,these are people in their fifties, and early sixties! And jobs ,that paid enough to support ones family, were, and still are, almost nonexistent! So under those circumstances, maybe voting "yes' took more courage than you realize!

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that connection. When did they get married in relation to his nomination to the board?

As a matter of fact, I attended their nuptials. If you look closely, I am the guy with the tie-dyed T-shirt under his tux making the peace symbol with his right hand.

That should give you an idea of how long ago it was. But, I don't remember much of the sixties. 🙂

Anyway, AMR's board is one of the most "interconnected" of the Fortune 1000, ranking just behind JP Morgan, which is headed by Purcell. So, in the best traditions of "interconnectivity" (nice word, that), Ms McNamara extended the web at a very opportune time. I am sure it was a calculated move.

We all have heard that Caesar's wife must be above suspicion. I would posit that Purcell's wife should also.

 

[Vortilon]

Ya know, you guys are all focused on who voted yes and who voted no as if these numbers are gospel. Not sure I get the point. Why?

On the one hand, hundreds of posts here alleging that your union lies to you (and perhaps it does) and hundreds of posts here alleging that AA's management lies to you (and perhaps it does as well).

Yet all of a sudden, everybody puts stock in these vote totals as if they're the pure and unadulterated truth.

How do you know these vote totals weren't simply manufactured by your union and the company to reflect the pre-ordained outcome (that the concessions would be "approved" by a majority of the voters)?

I wouldn't put any faith in Chicago's presidential vote totals (or NYC, for that matter), let alone these votes. Can't figure out why you guys continue to do so.

Oh, well. Carry on. B)

Chicago's presidential vote total? What are you referring to, and which Chicago local?

It seems that there is some sort of controversy every time there is an important vote to be taken. Unfortunately, the results seem to favor the company and union international every time. The 95 contract vote - passed by something like 75 votes. Consider that at DFW over 125 ballots were disqualified alone. Remember the AMFA vote, it's now okay to let dead people and people from non related work groups vote on the aircraft mechanics representation. So, the controversy over the PIN fraud on the 2003 vote is no stretch.

Point is, when the issue involves your career - you tend to take an interest in it. It's hard enough negotiating with the company for decent pay and benefits, we also have to keep an eye on our union reps - primarily at the international level. If nobody says or does anything - nothing changes. At least if people speak up and challenge the status quo - things can change. Remember Don Carty?

 

[Wretched Wrench]

It seems that there is some sort of controversy every time there is an important vote to be taken. Unfortunately, the results seem to favor the company and union international every time. The 95 contract vote - passed by something like 75 votes. Consider that at DFW over 125 ballots were disqualified alone. Remember the AMFA vote, it's now okay to let dead people and people from non related work groups vote on the aircraft mechanics representation. So, the controversy over the PIN fraud on the 2003 vote is no stretch.

Point is, when the issue involves your career - you tend to take an interest in it. It's hard enough negotiating with the company for decent pay and benefits, we also have to keep an eye on our union reps - primarily at the international level. If nobody says or does anything - nothing changes. At least if people speak up and challenge the status quo - things can change. Remember Don Carty?

Yes. There is nothing we can do about rigged election counting at the International level.

However, at the Local level, each of us can get involved and assure honesty by serving on the election committee, or just showing up as an observer. It only takes one honest man to assure complete honesty. I know my local has conducted a lot of honest elections.

 

[Bill]

For myself,

I am now well versed and a victim of the problem.

I am very interested to discover a SOLUTION!

Playing the victim.....now there's an MO for you!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

I don't know of any lawyer who will risk their license (or their reputation) just to promote their former company's agenda.

I guess you dont read newspapers or watch the news on TV. Every week there is another indictment of somebody or some corporation that all their peers thought would never risk their careers or reputation (Anderson, Enron etc). Look at how much money we are talking about here-billions of dollars, people have risked more for much less.

She retired in Feb 2003, and the three month consultant gig is fairly standard in senior positions to allow for turnover.
Absolutely, she had a conflict of interest. But that doesn't mean she had any involvement with the actual work that AAA was conducting, and it shouldn't rule out using AAA's services. Lawyers and judges recuse themselves all the time when there's even a hint of conflict, so I would expect the same to have held true in this case.
Interesting. I wasn't aware of that connection. When did they get married in relation to his nomination to the board?

Lets not forget the big switch. The TWU International presented one firm to the negotiating committee, then after that firm and their process was approved they switched to the one with AA connections that used sequential coding so that anyone with a seniority list and one pin number could figure out everyone elses pin number.