TWU negotiations.........what?

[TWU informer]

Can't we all just be Union Men and get along?

And you guys still wonder why I voted yes on the T/A?

Is retro still on the table?
Would money have been left on the table if the T/A passed?
Are we now nearly at the 11th hour of the 29th day and ready to get the best deal possible?

There is so much in-fighting and division within this Union that voting NO was a stupid thing for our group to have done.
I am gald the majority spoke with their ballots, but look where that has gotten us now. Are you sure we want a fully democratic Union?

 

[737823]

Can't we all just be Union Men and get along?

And you guys still wonder why I voted yes on the T/A?

Is retro still on the table?
Would money have been left on the table if the T/A passed?
Are we now nearly at the 11th hour of the 29th day and ready to get the best deal possible?

There is so much in-fighting and division within this Union that voting NO was a stupid thing for our group to have done.
I am gald the majority spoke with their ballots, but look where that has gotten us now. Are you sure we want a fully democratic Union?

Youre exactly right and its unfortunate for everyone involved. Where is Bob Owens to defend his position? Still recovering from St. Pattys day perhaps...

Josh

 

[Mr Red]

Can't we all just be Union Men and get along?

And you guys still wonder why I voted yes on the T/A?

Is retro still on the table?
Would money have been left on the table if the T/A passed?
Are we now nearly at the 11th hour of the 29th day and ready to get the best deal possible?

There is so much in-fighting and division within this Union that voting NO was a stupid thing for our group to have done.
I am gald the majority spoke with their ballots, but look where that has gotten us now. Are you sure we want a fully democratic Union?

IT DID"NT MATTER THEN,IT DOES'NT MATTER NOW,IT WON'T MATTER TOMORROW.Anyone that thinks AMR did'nt have long term plans
back to 2003 is mistaken.Its been a take it or leave it attitude, should have forced B/K in 2003.Take medicine then willingly or take it now forcefully !

 

[iluvaa]

Can't we all just be Union Men and get along?

And you guys still wonder why I voted yes on the T/A?

Is retro still on the table?
Would money have been left on the table if the T/A passed?
Are we now nearly at the 11th hour of the 29th day and ready to get the best deal possible?

There is so much in-fighting and division within this Union that voting NO was a stupid thing for our group to have done.
I am gald the majority spoke with their ballots, but look where that has gotten us now. Are you sure we want a fully democratic Union?

Infighting and division are a direct result of, the lack of leadership, trust in those leaders, and transparency in talks with the company. When we have no leaders that people trust and they wont tell us anything, all you get is rumors lies and falsehoods. Its about time the TWU realizes that we are all adults and this is our livelihoods at stake. We deserve to be told daily about everything going on not just the committees meet this week.

 

[TWU informer]

Infighting and division are a direct result of, the lack of leadership, trust in those leaders, and transparency in talks with the company. When we have no leaders that people trust and they wont tell us anything, all you get is rumors lies and falsehoods. Its about time the TWU realizes that we are all adults and this is our livelihoods at stake. We deserve to be told daily about everything going on not just the committees meet this week.

Some of the leadership are the one's fanning the flames of the overhaul vs line and local vs local fighting.

While others are going to save us from ourselves and believe that we are too ignorant to handle the truth. I am still not convinced they are totally wrong based on what I read and see on these forums.

And for Mr. Red,
Regardless of what happens or would have happened which you think you know but cannot prove, many of us would have had well over $17,000.00 in our pockets by now. You might think that doesn't matter, but I sure do.

I voted yes, not because I liked the T/A but have been saying all along nothing better was coming, and that has proven to be true.
Meanwhile, those that wanted to fight without weapons and zero unity have led us to a loss of that income.

 

[Mr Red]

Some of the leadership are the one's fanning the flames of the overhaul vs line and local vs local fighting.

While others are going to save us from ourselves and believe that we are too ignorant to handle the truth. I am still not convinced they are totally wrong based on what I read and see on these forums.

And for Mr. Red,
Regardless of what happens or would have happened which you think you know but cannot prove, many of us would have had well over $17,000.00 in our pockets by now. You might think that doesn't matter, but I sure do.

I voted yes, not because I liked the T/A but have been saying all along nothing better was coming, and that has proven to be true.
Meanwhile, those that wanted to fight without weapons and zero unity have led us to a loss of that income.

You know as well as I that the T/A as presented would not pass. Some get lump,some don't some get geo pay some don't,some keep retiree medical some don't
giving up retirement for new hires,more co-pay for medical. No let AA cut their own Throat,they can transition to jobs with no future on their own ! And to be honest I was a yes vote untill I read the T/A.

 

[Buck]

You know as well as I that the T/A as presented would not pass. Some get lump,some don't some get geo pay some don't,some keep retiree medical some don't
giving up retirement for new hires,more co-pay for medical. No let AA cut their own Throat,they can transition to jobs with no future on their own ! And to be honest I was a yes vote untill I read the T/A.

While I was not able to vote, due to an illness, I believe that the reasons for voting no on the T/A were no worse than the scaled compensation plans of the past contracts. The divisions implemented then were basically the same as the T/A. Voting no gained nothing that the union shouldn't have tried to get as far back as 1983.

 

[strikeforce]

Some of the leadership are the one's fanning the flames of the overhaul vs line and local vs local fighting.

While others are going to save us from ourselves and believe that we are too ignorant to handle the truth. I am still not convinced they are totally wrong based on what I read and see on these forums.

And for Mr. Red,
Regardless of what happens or would have happened which you think you know but cannot prove, many of us would have had well over $17,000.00 in our pockets by now. You might think that doesn't matter, but I sure do.

I voted yes, not because I liked the T/A but have been saying all along nothing better was coming, and that has proven to be true.
Meanwhile, those that wanted to fight without weapons and zero unity have led us to a loss of that income.

boy, you just can't get over it can you.

I am convinced that AA will abrogate our agreement because that's been in their plans all along. I believe the only thing that somewhat derailed the "ask" was the PBGC's fight against termination. It's absolutely typical of members fighting amongst each other, and stations fighting amongst each other. The membership is so gullible to AA's planned threat, AA's operation is pretty good lately. ots aircraft has been very low systemwide.....even DFW that onced averaged about 25 ots, has seen their ots in the single digits.
I am absolutely convinced that the TWU will once again walk away unscathed blaming others for their failures. The rumor mill, lack of information and lies has worked in the past and has been very effective at keeping the membership on edge right now. The membership will once again learn that trusting the TWU will cost YOU dearly in the pocket book. I don't believe ONE thing that comes out of management's mouth, and I DON'T believe one thing that comes from the TWU leadership.
I guess the pain from the last nine years wasn't enough to teach us a lesson in trusting the TWU leadership, but I'm absolutely sure the next 6 years will. Reality in Tulsa will come in the form of pay cuts and rif's, and that's exactly what YOU deserve for not getting rid of the TWU when YOU had a chance. Now deal with it and stop crying!

 

[limit]

This is what I do not understand.
People claim that the company would follow a certain road, that is at least equal if not worse than, a certain TA.
They claim that is was inevitable.
So .....you decide to vote against putting some money ,vac and holidays in your pockets for almost 2 years now,
Because you wanted the company to lead itself down this road?
Because it would have happened anyway/or what ever else your arguments read here page after page?

If the result would have been BK anyway,why not take the TA.... AND wait for them to go down this road/
I have not chimed in on the rationale of voting on the TA according to some of you guys arguments,yet I increasingly
see those (your no arguments of you the No voter ,at least the one's expressed here on this board) as empty bs trying to defend the
idiocy of your arguments.
Its your right to vote anyway you want ,you do not need to defend that to anyone else.
Arguing/defending your vote the way you guys have, only proves you are idiots,And you cant fix that.
You would have been miles ahead if you kept your mouths shut .
Its pretty simple: All of us voted,the smart ,the idiots, and all in between.
The result came back,and like it or not you cant fix/change that either.

 

[TWU informer]

This is what I do not understand.
People claim that the company would follow a certain road, that is at least equal if not worse than, a certain TA.
They claim that is was inevitable.
So .....you decide to vote against putting some money ,vac and holidays in your pockets for almost 2 years now,
Because you wanted the company to lead itself down this road?
Because it would have happened anyway/or what ever else your arguments read here page after page?

If the result would have been BK anyway,why not take the TA.... AND wait for them to go down this road/
I have not chimed in on the rationale of voting on the TA according to some of you guys arguments,yet I increasingly
see those (your no arguments of you the No voter ,at least the one's expressed here on this board) as empty bs trying to defend the
idiocy of your arguments.
Its your right to vote anyway you want ,you do not need to defend that to anyone else.
Arguing/defending your vote the way you guys have, only proves you are idiots,And you cant fix that.
You would have been miles ahead if you kept your mouths shut .
Its pretty simple: All of us voted,the smart ,the idiots, and all in between.
The result came back,and like it or not you cant fix/change that either.

It is typical human behavior to deflect blame when a group has made a mistake.

I can only laugh everytime I see their "It would have happened anyway" arguement.

It's no wonder the company runs all over our asses, as a group, we are not men of our word, and we never accept responsibility for that which ours and ours alone. As a group we are predictable and never waver from the status quo. And our International Gang of Appointees don't even feel our pain as they have never taken any pay/benefit cut.

When the NO VOTE campaign was taking place, according to NO VOTERS, the Corporate Bankruptcy Talk was nothing more than a bluff and/or a threat.
Once they filed Chapter 11, it quickly became "AA's long term plan all along", to cover dumbasses tracks.
When James C. Little contradicts himself like that, they are all over his ass.
Forked Tongue FOOLS, and still in charge.

 

[Birdman]

In hindsight, you can always make your opponents look like fools if you just happen to be on the winning side of a prediction. I don't recall any predictions that claimed if I voted no the compAAny would stall negotiations for 15 months after the vote count and then file bankruptcy. I believe the majority of those that voted were just hoping for compromise on the devisive issues in the contract and those in the minority were asking for the moon. There were offers on the table that were acceptable way before the bk filing and the right to vote on another t/a was not in the best interest of the compAAny negotiators.

 

[TWU informer]

In hindsight, you can always make your opponents look like fools if you just happen to be on the winning side of a prediction. I don't recall any predictions that claimed if I voted no the compAAny would stall negotiations for 15 months after the vote count and then file bankruptcy. I believe the majority of those that voted were just hoping for compromise on the devisive issues in the contract and those in the minority were asking for the moon. There were offers on the table that were acceptable way before the bk filing and the right to vote on another t/a was not in the best interest of the compAAny negotiators.

I am not making anyone look like a fool, they did this to themsleves. And still are today. I think I have only seen one person publicly claim that he would vote different if given the chance. Making a mistake is one thing, making it worse by denial and blame is what makes one appear a fool. I dont view them as opponents either because I do not win if they lose, I lose right along with them.

The biggest problem was the continued denial that we still had our defined pension.
All Bob and the others were doing was comparing hourly rate, vacation, sick, ect. IGNORING the defined pension over and over and over. Or at least claiming a matching 401K would cost the company more not less. ROFL

It should have been obvious to any AMT that was paying attention in this industry, that what the other carriers accomplished in Bankruptcy was also available to AA.

AA gave us chance to keep our defined pension in exchange for other issues that are still in the term sheet. And now more cost reductions are on the table not less.

We had no strategy, no weapons, and no unity. In other words, we were the one's bluffing all the while claiming AA was bluffing.

The pie got slammed in our face for ignorance. We need to learn to pay attention to what is actually happening in the industry instead of only looking at our pity pot with an emotional state that creates failed ideas.

BTW, I thought the company was being perfectly clear that they would either reach their intended cost reduction targets or they would file BK. It was our leaders who kept telling us that was a bluff. Meanwhile our negotiator was claiming a decleration of impasse by the NMB would move AA off their stance, when it fact the C11 filing coincided with the time frame to official ask for release. Not by accident either.

 

[Duke787]

This is what I do not understand.
People claim that the company would follow a certain road, that is at least equal if not worse than, a certain TA.
They claim that is was inevitable.
So .....you decide to vote against putting some money ,vac and holidays in your pockets for almost 2 years now,
Because you wanted the company to lead itself down this road?
Because it would have happened anyway/or what ever else your arguments read here page after page?

If the result would have been BK anyway,why not take the TA.... AND wait for them to go down this road/
I have not chimed in on the rationale of voting on the TA according to some of you guys arguments,yet I increasingly
see those (your no arguments of you the No voter ,at least the one's expressed here on this board) as empty bs trying to defend the
idiocy of your arguments.
Its your right to vote anyway you want ,you do not need to defend that to anyone else.
Arguing/defending your vote the way you guys have, only proves you are idiots,And you cant fix that.
You would have been miles ahead if you kept your mouths shut .
Its pretty simple: All of us voted,the smart ,the idiots, and all in between.
The result came back,and like it or not you cant fix/change that either.

Well said........but one thing to add, we can follow the path led by the loud mouth vote NO guys again and you see how much we missed out on, or we can vote in the best possible contract. I recommended voting yes for the TA and I was attacked on this forum, and now we ALL have missed out on more then $15k in money alone. Lets not listen anymore to the want to be lawyers/negotiators/I knew AA was going BK the whole time so I voted no type guys , and lets listen to an actual BK attorney who recommends a consensual deal.


Side note, the UAL FA had a non-consensual contract from BK, and are just now coming up to AA pay scale. Lets not castrate our selves to avoid getting punched in the face.

 

[Duke787]

In hindsight, you can always make your opponents look like fools if you just happen to be on the winning side of a prediction. I don't recall any predictions that claimed if I voted no the compAAny would stall negotiations for 15 months after the vote count and then file bankruptcy. I believe the majority of those that voted were just hoping for compromise on the devisive issues in the contract and those in the minority were asking for the moon. There were offers on the table that were acceptable way before the bk filing and the right to vote on another t/a was not in the best interest of the compAAny negotiators.

Just remember who the oppenants were and what they said and what actually happened, so we don't make those mistakes again.

 

[odie01]

Have you guys seen this? I guess it's been out for a while but been out of touch at Beaver's Bend OK without any cell service.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6FSiaUu0Ww&feature=youtu.be