TWU negotiations.........what?

[enough already]

New update

 

[mike757]

If all the planes were sitting on the ground the case would be heard, and if that was the case the result would likely be different. Its time for Unions to act like Unions. I said back in 2002 that we all needed to get together and shut it down if they use BK to screw us. I said that it may be USAIR now but all the rest of us would be next. AA would only complete the first cycle. Hostess just filed with the intent of only going after labor contracts. BK has become the new way to get around collective bargaining. In our case the company exploited the RLA for four years then jumped into BK with over $4 billion in cash, by no means broke, bankrupt, by the liberal definition sure, morally as well. If AA is successful then why would UAL or any other carrier ever negotiate? Why wouldnt UAL drag talks out and file for BK? If AA can get away with filing with $4 billion then why couldnt UAL do the same after several years of profits? Show profits and hold off on writing stuff off till the year before you file.

Finally something I can agree with... A WILDCAT STRIKE!!

Hey, I'll still get my severance, vacation pay and employment comp... won't I??

 

[Overspeed]

If all the planes were sitting on the ground the case would be heard, and if that was the case the result would likely be different. Its time for Unions to act like Unions. I said back in 2002 that we all needed to get together and shut it down if they use BK to screw us. I said that it may be USAIR now but all the rest of us would be next. AA would only complete the first cycle. Hostess just filed with the intent of only going after labor contracts. BK has become the new way to get around collective bargaining. In our case the company exploited the RLA for four years then jumped into BK with over $4 billion in cash, by no means broke, bankrupt, by the liberal definition sure, morally as well. If AA is successful then why would UAL or any other carrier ever negotiate? Why wouldnt UAL drag talks out and file for BK? If AA can get away with filing with $4 billion then why couldnt UAL do the same after several years of profits? Show profits and hold off on writing stuff off till the year before you file.

Great Bob, advocating illegal job actions. Even if you do get to the US Supreme Court don't you think that AMR will get a TRO with the penalty of huge fines against officers of the International and the Locals that do not try to stop it? They did that to the APA over the Reno Air seniority issue. And work by the book campaigns, are you telling me that people aren't already after all the FAA scrutiny we all work under? The FAA is out here constantly and they advocate outsourcing, they want that to happen at the higher levels. Why? Because the FAA can then sign more bi-laterals with foreign countries to "self-monitor" per the FAA Regs.

You are in way over your head.

 

[Buck]

I got into a discussion over politics and unionism today. I was hammered as to the advantages of being a Democratic and how they are the party for the working man. It was the same old story, how the current sitting president is taking care of labor. I asked what about South Carolina and Boeing. Point, the old strength in numbers is always trumped by the courts. I am pretty sure that my dues are not paying a retainer. Why even discuss an illegal job action in the first place. The "power," of unionism is at its lowest and a member of the TWU wants a to the death cage match.

 

[FWAAA]

eolesen is correct; the US Supreme Court hears no more than about one percent of the appeals it faces each year, and thus, in most cases, the opinion of the Court of Appeals is the law of the land. Just like in the NW AFA case, where the Second Circuit said:

We hold that Section 2 (First) of the Railway Labor Act forbids an immediate strike when a bankruptcy court approves a debtor-carrier's rejection of a collective-bargaining agreement that is subject to the Railway Labor Act and permits it to impose new terms, and the propriety of that approval is not on appeal.

Couldn't be more clear than that. When a labor contract is rejected under 1113, the RLA forbids an immediate strike. At least in the Second Circuit, where AA's bankruptcy case is happening.

Sure, there's some fantasy thinking out there that the Supreme Court would reverse this decision if faced with an appeal, but I put that in the same fantasy category as "there's still money on the table" and "retro is on the way."

 

[700UW]

Bob,

Do you realize the Supreme Court only hears normal cases starting the first Monday in October?

Only other thing they hear are death penalty cases during the year on an emergency basis.

And the SCOTUS is the last step, it would go to the District Court, then the Court of Appeals then SCOTUS.

 

[iluvaa]

eolesen is correct; the US Supreme Court hears no more than about one percent of the appeals it faces each year, and thus, in most cases, the opinion of the Court of Appeals is the law of the land. Just like in the NW AFA case, where the Second Circuit said:


Couldn't be more clear than that. When a labor contract is rejected under 1113, the RLA forbids an immediate strike. At least in the Second Circuit, where AA's bankruptcy case is happening.

Sure, there's some fantasy thinking out there that the Supreme Court would reverse this decision if faced with an appeal, but I put that in the same fantasy category as "there's still money on the table" and "retro is on the way."

Who really gives a sheet if its illegal what do we have to lose

 

[Buck]

Bob,

Do you realize the Supreme Court only hears normal cases starting the first Monday in October?

Only other thing they hear are death penalty cases during the year on an emergency basis.

And the SCOTUS is the last step, it would go to the District Court, then the Court of Appeals then SCOTUS.

And when are the cases heard before the TWU International?

 

[Bob Owens]

Duplicate

 

[Bob Owens]

Duplicate

 

[Bob Owens]

Couldn't be more clear than that. When a labor contract is rejected under 1113, the RLA forbids an immediate strike. At least in the Second Circuit, where AA's bankruptcy case is happening.

a little misleading, the decision said that we must go to section 6 procedures, well we were already there, for several years, what excuse would the NMB put forward after four years of talks,abrogation under bk , imposition of new terms as a reason to hope that a delay may produce a contract?

If we were in that position I feel that we would really be morally justified to resort to what the courts may consider to be illegal job actions. When judges cherry pick parts of laws to strip workers of their rights we must fight back. In this case airline workers are subject to a disadvantage that no other workers face, rail union contracts can not be voided, workers under the NLRA are free to strike upon abrogation and government workers usually automatically go to arbitration. They have crafted an injustice so I would have no problem telling the courts to go pound salt and shut the place down. So they put me in jail, then they get to feed me and my family. Under such conditions there can be no future in this industry anyway.

Maybe it could be a wake up call for labor, we saw how civil disobedience worked in Egypt and Libya , even China started raising workers wages because they were concerned about labor unrest. Things will only get worse if we follow rules that are rigged.

I don't recall if you ever answered my question on your opinion of the ruling other than to say "it is what it is". I'm not a lawyer but those whom Ive spoken to, who are on the other side, indicate that they think it was a very flawed ruling, in fact wasn't there dissent on the ruling? Sure he could abrogate an airline contract, but can he really declare it annulled, which is pretty much what he said, "as if it never existed",when the company wasnt claiming that the contract was put in place under false pretenses?


You and I have gone back and forth over labor costs for many years now, AA has gone on record as saying that they have an $800 million dollar cost disadvantage, which we have debated, yet in BK they say they need $1. 25 billion in savings from labor. Well if the disadvantage is $800 million how is it they need $1.25 billion from labor?

The recent flip flop on terminating he pensions has me thinking that the company did not want to take on the PBGC. AA could have put the program in deep trouble and the program has the backing of the government, if AA had gotten away with sinking the PBGC then started posting record profits there's a chance that the whole C-11 scam could come under public scrutiny. Just as proponents of bk reform for people were able to rewrite the law to stop individual scammers such a scandal could endanger the scam for other corporations who may really need it down the road.

 

[Bob Owens]

Who really gives a sheet if its illegal what do we have to lose

What do you have to lose? A job with an airline that wants to give you less sick time than any other airline, union or nonunion, wants you to pay more for your medical than any other airline, give you less iod time should you get hurt trying to make them money, less holidays, less vacation, the worst pension, the worst work rules and the lowest hourly wage, that's what you have to lose, now go out there and make them number one!

 

[Buck]

What do you have to lose? A job with an airline that wants to give you less sick time than any other airline, union or nonunion, wants you to pay more for your medical than any other airline, give you less iod time should you get hurt trying to make them money, less holidays, less vacation, the worst pension, the worst work rules and the lowest hourly wage, that's what you have to lose, now go out there and make them number one!

Now that we are in this situation, do you not believe that the company will be forthcoming in keeping the workforce competitive?

With pension virtually gone and at least the mechanic and related at the bottom in compensation, what other course do they have, to keep mechanics.

 

[TWU informer]

What do you have to lose? A job with an airline that wants to give you less sick time than any other airline, union or nonunion, wants you to pay more for your medical than any other airline, give you less iod time should you get hurt trying to make them money, less holidays, less vacation, the worst pension, the worst work rules and the lowest hourly wage, that's what you have to lose, now go out there and make them number one!

It appears you have a new strategy....


Get kicked off of the committee so as to not be blamed for what is coming?

 

[Overspeed]

It appears you have a new strategy....


Get kicked off of the committee so as to not be blamed for what is coming?

That sounds like something Bob would do. He knows everything and is accountable for nothing. The Teflon President.