TWU negotiations.........what?

[Overspeed]

And, one day AA will have fewer people and lower wages and more expensive benefits. The four 757's is only the start.

Going to find out soon huh?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

So Chuck how much progress on fixing all the inequities you have mentioned? The mediator has left the building so talks may or may not continue. So in November we will be asking for release and from what my president has said. Will that be the action that get's us everything you were not ok with? If not then what? Who will you blame then? You are great at picking things apart so I take it if everything listed above is fixed to your liking then we will have a TA.

I believe that my thought process is in the majority of the members and i am just stating the facts on why I voted NO. My only claim is that I will not vote for another concessionary agreement.
If we cave in now by voting in an agreement that is worse than the one we turned down, we solidify the companies position, we will never vote another contract down and the company will use that against us for ever!

 

[TWU informer]

I believe that my thought process is in the majority of the members and i am just stating the facts on why I voted NO. My only claim is that I will not vote for another concessionary agreement.
If we cave in now by voting in an agreement that is worse than the one we turned down, we solidify the companies position, we will never vote another contract down and the company will use that against us for ever!

Hasn't that scenario already previously played out with the TWU?
I know in 1989 we voted for a worse agreement after voting NO on a previous offer.
Maybe the company already is "using that against us forever".

 

[Overspeed]

If you're trying to tell me CAL has unlicensed mechs working the flighline(line-as you stated)

And I verified that info and learned something else, aircraft tows (Douglas/Goldhofer too) are done by the rampers at CAL. The mechanics only move them in and out of the hangar and maintenance ramp. AA gave up the push backs, looks like CAL gave up everything else. If AA did that they could probably cut all those hundreds of mechanic valet parking and hangar pilot jobs.

Also, when I hired in AA, as well as other airlines had unlicensed mehanics working the line. They just can't sign the book. (i.e. a licensed mechanic has to sign the task card was done per the FAA)

 

[Mr Red]

And I verified that info and learned something else, aircraft tows (Douglas/Goldhofer too) are done by the rampers at CAL. The mechanics only move them in and out of the hangar and maintenance ramp. AA gave up the push backs, looks like CAL gave up everything else. If AA did that they could probably cut all those hundreds of mechanic valet parking and hangar pilot jobs.

Also, when I hired in AA, as well as other airlines had unlicensed mehanics working the line. They just can't sign the book. (i.e. a licensed mechanic has to sign the task card was done per the FAA)

Dont know of any line maintenance work without a license,don't know of any Mech that would sign off unlicensed work!!! u on crack or what !!!

 

[Overspeed]

Dont know of any line maintenance work without a license,don't know of any Mech that would sign off unlicensed work!!! u on crack or what !!!

Nope. What do you call line maintenance? Everything at AA from BC to gate calls is line. At CAL in their hub cities they have unlicensed people who fix tray tables and arm caps according to my friend. That is not licensed required work.

Have you ever signed for a gear, halo, or belly wash as being complete on the line? The you signed for unlicensed work. Has AA had unlicensed mechanics working the line maintenance hangar on B, A, or PS checks, or polishers, painters, or cabin? Yes. Did the work get released by a licensed CC or mechanics? Yes.

It's totally legal per the FARs.

Do other airlines have machine shop or sheetmetal mechanics come out in stations to repair damaged aircraft or engines on the line that are unlicensed? Yes, all the time because a licensed mechanic or supervisor signs for it.

Did you pass your A&P test?

 

[787nightmare]

They do. Call them. I have friends that work in IAH and EWR. They have a trim crew with little trucks that work off interior items on the line.

And as far as those big balled wonders, know people in many former NWA stations that went over to walk the picket line and the TWU was the only ones there. Yeah, great solidarity over there. Keep talking trash.

I will continue to "talk trash" as you claim, because I know the facts.
CAL does have small "trim crews" that work cabin items on RON a/c, some have there tickets, some don't(but typically are working on getting them).
Your statement was misleading(typical), stating "CAL has paint, trim mechs etc working the line".........as if they're out there doing line checks, working deferrals, signing logbooks etc on the line at night or something. Not the case at all. They may perf some cabin repair/maint items, but if they don't have there tickets, the Lead typically will sign the open item or non-rout item off(who IS lic'd).
So, stop it, will ya.....

And as far as the AMFA mechs being "no shows" to walk the line at a particular station....was this at the end of the strike where all was lost or when? They were the most cohesive bunch of mechs I've ever seen in this business-esp DTW line mechs.
I'd pay to see you say that crap to some exNWA guys' faces I knew at Boeing.............

Like I said, I'd love to strike AA(and knew your name)...and see how long you'd hold the line. Except .....there's never any consequences with twu, IAM or Reamsters for crossing a line! "everybody deserves a second chance brother", right?........but they'll damn sure take that raise WE held the line for, won't they!? SCABS!!!!!!!...........

You've made waaay too many remarks in your posts that finger you pal. I know good and well you're from the Int'l or are a local pres of some sort.
Not that hard to discern. Don't concern yourself with me and AA........I'm not AT ALL worried ....I'll be just fine, slick. Problem is....unlike most of the others I hired in AA with, I've been around this industry too long for you twu clowns to bullshit me. I know EXACTLY what the hell's going on around this industry and it's piss poor rep of the mechs. My cards been in...

 

[strikeforce]

Nope. What do you call line maintenance? Everything at AA from BC to gate calls is line. At CAL in their hub cities they have unlicensed people who fix tray tables and arm caps according to my friend. That is not licensed required work.

Have you ever signed for a gear, halo, or belly wash as being complete on the line? The you signed for unlicensed work. Has AA had unlicensed mechanics working the line maintenance hangar on B, A, or PS checks as polishers, painters, or cabin? Yes. Did the work get released by a licensed CC or mechanics? Yes.

It's totally legal per the FARs.

Do other airlines have machine shop or sheetmetal mechanics come out in stations to repair damaged aircraft or engines on the line that are unlicensed? Yes, all the time because a licensed mechanic or supervisor signs for it.

Did you pass your A&P test?

been at ORD for over 20 years....every mechanic has an A&P. I do not sign for work done by unlicensed helper, and will never sign for work done by unlicensed HELPER!!!!

 

[Overspeed]

I will continue to "talk trash" as you claim, because I know the facts.
CAL does have small "trim crews" that work cabin items on RON a/c, some have there tickets, some don't(but typically are working on getting them).
Your statement was misleading(typical), stating "CAL has paint, trim mechs etc working the line".........as if they're out there doing line checks, working deferrals, signing logbooks etc on the line at night or something. Not the case at all. They may perf some cabin repair/maint items, but if they don't have there tickets, the Lead typically will sign the open item or non-rout item off(who IS lic'd).
So, stop it, will ya.....

And as far as the AMFA mechs being "no shows" to walk the line at a particular station....was this at the end of the strike where all was lost or when? They were the most cohesive bunch of mechs I've ever seen in this business-esp DTW line mechs.
I'd pay to see you say that crap to some exNWA guys' faces I knew at Boeing.............

Like I said, I'd love to strike AA(and knew your name)...and see how long you'd hold the line. Except .....there's never any consequences with twu, IAM or Reamsters for crossing a line! "everybody deserves a second chance brother", right?........but they'll damn sure take that raise WE held the line for, won't they!? SCABS!!!!!!!...........

You've made waaay too many remarks in your posts that finger you pal. I know good and well you're from the Int'l or are a local pres of some sort.
Not that hard to discern. Don't concern yourself with me and AA........I'm not AT ALL worried ....I'll be just fine, slick. Problem is....unlike most of the others I hired in AA with, I've been around this industry too long for you twu clowns to bullshit me. I know EXACTLY what the hell's going on around this industry and it's piss poor rep of the mechs. My cards been in...

There were plenty of now shows from coast to coast.

And I am not worried at all either. While you are bouncing around BK airline after BK airline just think about this, are the same guys who are willing to sacrifice your job losing their there's if there is a BK? Probably not. They will still have their job and medical although probably reduced as well as the part of their pension that will probably be frozen or turned over to the PBGC. You on the other hand will not have a job or starting a new one and have no to little time in any pension plan.

Yep, you've been around. Can't BS you! You are a smart cookie.

 

[Overspeed]

been at ORD for over 20 years....every mechanic has an A&P. I do not sign for work done by unlicensed helper, and will never sign for work done by unlicensed HELPER!!!!

They are not "helpers" they are mechanics.

That's fine you don't have to, the CC releases the books. I doubt you asked everybody over the last twenty years there has been and I will look to see but still unlicensed mechanics out in the system. Bottom line call around to some old timers (more than 25 years) and they know about this. AA stopped years back. What about the phone, video, and other onboard equipment vendors? Were they all mechanics? Did you sign off in your past 20 years for video or phone issue being repaired? Did you back check all the panels they removed and wiring they were involved with? Of course not because they followed a procedure per their training and you probably signed repaired by RCI or Claircom.

Remember, AA holds the 121 certificate and only because of their GPM and QAM is it required that all line mechanics hold tickets. The FAA does provide for unlicensed mechanics to work routine tasks like checks provided that a system exists to have the work checked. Not saying I agree with it but the ability to do that per the FARs is there. You could in theory replace a lot of jobs at the hangar with unlicensed mechanics.

So you won't sign for it but if the GPM and QAM were to change then what? Will you tell the supervisor you refuse? Okay.

See lack of knowledge is the problem in our union and industry. All this false bravado from people without knowing how the system works is going to get us standing in line for our government cheese.

Buck brought up a valid question about contracting out the line. There are other things that AA could ask for but has not...yet.

 

[Buck]

12/21/2012​

 

[767 mechanic]

That's right. And not many people know that the IAM gave away the farm at NWA two months before AMFA took over. AMFA was the twu's scapegoat, just like Bartman was Oct 14, 2003 for Cub fans.

Odie I think you were alittle off on your statement. It is easy to confuse the airlines that the iam and the other industrial unions have butchered. It was the iam at UAL that gave away the farm. It was a scorched earth policy since they knew that they were going to be kicked off the property for their incompetence. The contract was agreed to on July 11,2003 and was backed dated to become effective May 1,2003 and continue until May 1,2009. AMFA was certified on July 15,2003 as the bargaining agent for the mechanic and related. This can be verified at the NMB website CASE NO. R-6933. During the 2003 card drive AMFA had an informational meeting in Tulsa at the Brady Theater and the Local 514 along with the twu international paraded a coffin around on a flatbed trailor with some tombstones on it with statements like RIP Ind and RIP Oakland. These statements were 100% lies on the part of the twu int and local 514. The iam contract clearly stated that they can dispose of (Their words) the Oakland and Indy maintenance facilities. Although I cannot blame all of the individuals involved. The majority of the people that were their believed that they were being told the truth,but in reality they were being lied to by the twu int and the local 514 leadership(Randy McDonald and the other 514 officers and e-board). I'm sure people like overspeed,cio and chris Rhinehart (aka highspeed steel) were there to perpetuate the lie. There maybe sombody that was there like TWU Informer that have some pictures that proove this about the headstones.

 

[Flying low]

12/21/2012​

The date of our new contract??

 

[strikeforce]

They are not "helpers" they are mechanics.

That's fine you don't have to, the CC releases the books. I doubt you asked everybody over the last twenty years there has been and I will look to see but still unlicensed mechanics out in the system. Bottom line call around to some old timers (more than 25 years) and they know about this. AA stopped years back. What about the phone, video, and other onboard equipment vendors? Were they all mechanics? Did you sign off in your past 20 years for video or phone issue being repaired? Did you back check all the panels they removed and wiring they were involved with? Of course not because they followed a procedure per their training and you probably signed repaired by RCI or Claircom.

Remember, AA holds the 121 certificate and only because of their GPM and QAM is it required that all line mechanics hold tickets. The FAA does provide for unlicensed mechanics to work routine tasks like checks provided that a system exists to have the work checked. Not saying I agree with it but the ability to do that per the FARs is there. You could in theory replace a lot of jobs at the hangar with unlicensed mechanics.

So you won't sign for it but if the GPM and QAM were to change then what? Will you tell the supervisor you refuse? Okay.

See lack of knowledge is the problem in our union and industry. All this false bravado from people without knowing how the system works is going to get us standing in line for our government cheese.

Buck brought up a valid question about contracting out the line. There are other things that AA could ask for but has not...yet.

I don't know what rock you crawled from but aircraft mechanics are defined as having an A&P license in my book. Unlicensed means just that and at ALL line stations AA mechanics have A&P's. I don't open sidewall panels for RCI or Panasonic workers, and I surely don't sign off their work, and although WE may sometimes sign off that RCI work was previously accomplished or deferred does not mean I signed off on their work. I don't know if RCI requires their workers to have A&P licenses, and I really don't care....it's their equipment and IF the TWU was a REAL union it wouldn't allow AA to have non-union workers work side by side with TWU union mechanics. Do you think union contruction, electrical or bricklayers allow non-union workers on their worksite????

 

[High Speed Steel]

Odie I think you were alittle off on your statement. It is easy to confuse the airlines that the iam and the other industrial unions have butchered. It was the iam at UAL that gave away the farm. It was a scorched earth policy since they knew that they were going to be kicked off the property for their incompetence. The contract was agreed to on July 11,2003 and was backed dated to become effective May 1,2003 and continue until May 1,2009. AMFA was certified on July 15,2003 as the bargaining agent for the mechanic and related. This can be verified at the NMB website CASE NO. R-6933. During the 2003 card drive AMFA had an informational meeting in Tulsa at the Brady Theater and the Local 514 along with the twu international paraded a coffin around on a flatbed trailor with some tombstones on it with statements like RIP Ind and RIP Oakland. These statements were 100% lies on the part of the twu int and local 514. The iam contract clearly stated that they can dispose of (Their words) the Oakland and Indy maintenance facilities. Although I cannot blame all of the individuals involved. The majority of the people that were their believed that they were being told the truth,but in reality they were being lied to by the twu int and the local 514 leadership(Randy McDonald and the other 514 officers and e-board). I'm sure people like overspeed,cio and chris Rhinehart (aka highspeed steel) were there to perpetuate the lie. There maybe sombody that was there like TWU Informer that have some pictures that proove this about the headstones.

Dammit, ratted out again.... :unsure: :blink: