TWU negotiations.........what?

[Birdman]

Since I know for a fact that this officer, who will remain nameless, was born, raised and educated in the great state of Oklahoma, and his math skills are obviously lacking, I call this Oklahoma math.

Just because his abacus was a few beads short doesn't mean everyone else's in OK was.

 

[TWU informer]

For someone who claims to be a Christian you need to brush up on Christ's teachings. Try reading the parable of the three talents. Fair and equal are not absolutes, for us other considerations are made, realities come into play, things cost more in certain places than others, weekends, Holidays, Shifts, conditions, AA is one of the few companies that refuses to recognize these with their Union workers and you apparently support that.

Before invoking Christ into the conversation and challenging another's faith, you should brush up on teachings regarding baby killing abortions and unions/marriages between the same sex. While you are it read about persecutions of Christians and removal of God and Christ from the Nation. Then be sure to pull the lever for the liberal while using Christ as a basis for a defense of your arguements. Talk about calling a Kettle Black. Also read up on who will be the judge and who should be humble.

Also

Before I will ever give up my Freedom to change my mind, and after watching you cave into TWU secret keeping reinforces my belief that I have no desire to "lead" as you define it and demonstrate how it is to be done.

I can just see it now Bob,

...you know in your heart that you need to change your mind or position on an important issue, but out of fear that it will be hard for members to follow you as a leader, you lead them off a cliff before you would ever change your mind or position.

Actually I call what I see here much more of a lemmings following than leading anyway.

I will be at the edge of cliff with a large sign that you and others will called stupid, as you go off the edge.

 

[Observer]

Before invoking Christ into the conversation and challenging another's faith, you should brush up on teachings regarding baby killing abortions and unions/marriages between the same sex. While you are it read about persecutions of Christians and removal of God and Christ from the Nation. Then be sure to pull the lever for the liberal while using Christ as a basis for a defense of your arguements. Talk about calling a Kettle Black. Also read up on who will be the judge and who should be humble.

Also

Before I will ever give up my Freedom to change my mind, and after watching you cave into TWU secret keeping reinforces my belief that I have no desire to "lead" as you define it and demonstrate how it is to be done.

I can just see it now Bob,

...you know in your heart that you need to change your mind or position on an important issue, but out of fear that it will be hard for members to follow you as a leader, you lead them off a cliff before you would ever change your mind or position.

Actually I call what I see here much more of a lemmings following than leading anyway.

I will be at the edge of cliff with a large sign that you and others will called stupid, as you go off the edge.

well stated

 

[TWU informer]

So that no reader gets confused over the parable of three talents:


From
From Bible . Org

In order to understand the meaning and the application of the parable of the talents, we must take note of the crucial terms and their meanings. Let me call your attention to the most important elements of the parable, as I now understand it.

The element of time. Time has been a significant factor in our Lord’s teaching concerning His coming and the end of the age, beginning in chapter 24. Jesus made it clear that His return would not be immediate, but after much trouble and the passing of a considerable period of time. While there would be sufficient evidence for His followers to discern the general “season” of His return, neither the day nor the hour would be known (Matthew 24:32-36, 42). Beyond this, His return would come at a time when it was not expected (Matthew 24:44). In the parable of the talent, there are two clear references to time. First, the master stayed away for a long time (Matthew 25:19). Second, the faithful servants immediately went to work to increase their master’s money (Matthew 25:16-17).

The element of money. It is indeed unfortunate that the term “talent” means something very different today from what our Lord meant when He told this parable. The talent was the largest measurement of money in those days. Since a talent was actually a measurement of weight, it did not have a constant value. A talent of gold, for example, would be worth a whole lot more than a talent of bronze. While commentators differ somewhat over the approximate value of a talent in today’s economy, all would agree that it was a large amount of money. Some say that it was the equivalent to 20 years’ wages for a common laborer.275 We must remember, then, that a talent is a measure of money; it is not a reference to abilities. The talents were distributed on the basis of ability, not as the bestowing of ability.

We should be careful to recognize that in this parable the mere possession of a talent is not evidence of salvation. The one-talent slave is clearly not saved; he is condemned to hell. In a similar way, in the parable of the soils (Matthew 13:3-9, 18-23) the mere germination of the seed does not seem to represent salvation. It would appear that only the fourth soil represents the true believer. The second and third soils represent those who initially show some interest in the gospel, but then reject it when the meaning of the gospel becomes clear. The true believer is represented by the seed that grows, that endures, and that bears fruit.

From the parable of the talents we seem to be informed that unbelievers are entrusted with certain things, and that they will also give account for their stewardship. I believe that there are other texts of Scripture which indicate that God has entrusted (by common grace, in some cases) certain assets to all men, and that all men are accountable to God for how they use (or do not use) these resources which God has entrusted to them. I believe that we see this in Romans 9, where Paul speaks of the things God has entrusted Israel:

1 I am telling the truth in Christ (I am not lying!), for my conscience assures me in the Holy Spirit— 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed—cut off from Christ—for the sake of my people, my fellow countrymen, 4 who are Israelites. To them belong the adoption as sons, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the temple worship, and the promises. 5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from them, by human descent, came the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever! Amen (Romans 9:1-5).

Our Lord’s rebuke of the scribes and Pharisees is often couched in “stewardship” terms. God entrusted Israel, and especially its leaders, with the truth, and they did not use it properly.

The element of work. This is the reason I was critical of the translation of verse 16 (see footnote 1 above). The original text is quite clear here – it is the first servant (and we assume the second, as well) who immediately sets to work with his master’s money. It is not the money that goes to work, as such, but the worker. When the third servant’s excuses are set aside, it becomes evident that this man is lazy – he didn’t do any work. He didn’t even hand the money over to bankers,276 to let them go to work with it.

The element of profit. I have often been puzzled over these words, repeated several times in the New Testament:

“For the one who has will be given more, and he will have more than enough. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken from him” (Matthew 25:29; see also 13:12; Mark 4:25; Luke 8:18; 19:26).

How is it that the one “who does not have” has something taken from him? How can you take something away from a person who has nothing? I now see the answer, which appears to be consistent with all of the places where this principle is set forth. The one “who does not have” but yet does “have” (because what he has is taken away) is the one who has his master’s money, but has made no profit from it. The third servant has no profit, no gain, to give his master, so his talent is taken away and given to the one who went to work with his master’s money and made great gains for him.

We find this same principle stated in connection with the parable of the soils (Matthew 13:12; Mark 4:25; Luke 8:18). The soil which produces no grain (in other instances, no fruit, or no profit) is bad soil. Only the soil that produces a crop is “good” soil. And so it is that those who over time work with what they are entrusted, in order to make a profit for their master, are rewarded for their faithfulness. Those who are unfaithful lose not only their reward, but their stewardship.

And so Bob, per your request I studied the parable of the three talents.
And after complete review, I cannot find anywhere that would make this qualify as an adequate response to my statement regarding LINE AMT pay versus Overhaul AMT pay after you claimed to be for Equality and Fairness. In fact Bob, I believe you missed the intent of the parable by such a large margin, that it is actually you who needs to study up on the parable.

I would be open minded to hear your spin on how this parable applies to the conversation we were having, but I am of the opinion the parable had nothing to do with fair and equality. It has more to do with obedience if you care to know the truth and meaning of the parable.

Something else worth reading regarding the parable of the talents:

THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE TALENTS (MONEY)
The man called his own servants and gave them talents. The Lord has claim on man's time and labor. Paul wrote, "For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's." We do not belong to ourselves. We belong to God. Our physical bodies and our spirits are God's. The only way we can glorify God in our body and spirit is to use our bodies and spirits to serve Him (Matthew 5:16). In Romans 1:1, Paul refers to himself as "a bondservant of Jesus Christ." A bond-servant is one who willingly becomes a servant of another. This is what one does when he becomes a Christian. Everyone of us who have obeyed the gospel have become bondservants of Jesus Christ. We have therefore placed ourselves under obligation to serve Him with all the various talents He has blessed us with.

The talents were distributed "to each according to his own ability." One of the things we learn right at first is that not all people have the same abilities. But each one of us has abilities, and each one of us has responsibility to use the abilities we have been given by the Lord.

 

[Birdman]

Bob, you may want to avoid stepping in the holy do-do in the future.

 

[bigjets]

What part of handgun ban did you not understand????

Maybe you should lay off the Meth......

"After Heller, petitioners filed this federalsuit against the City, which was consolidated with two related ac-tions, alleging that the City’s handgun ban has left them vulnerable to criminals. They sought a declaration that the ban and several re-lated City ordinances violate the Second and Fourteenth Amend-ments. Rejecting petitioners’ argument that the ordinances are un-constitutional, the court noted that the Seventh Circuit previouslyhad upheld the constitutionality of a handgun ban"

http://biggovernment.com/jlott/2011/10/04/chicagos-violent-crime-rates-plummet-after-scotus-removes-handgun-ban/

 

[Mr Red]

http://biggovernment.com/jlott/2011/10/04/chicagos-violent-crime-rates-plummet-after-scotus-removes-handgun-ban/

TAKE YOUR RELIGULOUS BOLOGNA TO CHURCH WE DONT NEED ANY MORE OF THAT MIDDLE EAST b/s

 

[odie01]

TAKE YOUR RELIGULOUS BOLOGNA TO CHURCH WE DONT NEED ANY MORE OF THAT MIDDLE EAST b/s

Please God, let the Rangers hit Verlander, and keep CJ's fastball low and away.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Just because his abacus was a few beads short doesn't mean everyone else's in OK was.

True

 

[Bob Owens]

So that no reader gets confused over the parable of three talents:
The talents were distributed "to each according to his own ability." One of the things we learn right at first is that not all people have the same abilities. But each one of us has abilities, and each one of us has responsibility to use the abilities we have been given by the Lord.

That was my point.
That considerations need to be made when determining fairness. Should a guy who has to work weekends nights and Holidays get more than a guy who does the same thing but works normal hours? I say yes. Should people who work in high cost areas get paid more than those who do the same work in Low cost areas, again I say yes.

The fact is that AA generates most of its revenues out of those high cost areas because thats where the customers come from or go to, everyone enjoys the benefits of those operations, however those who work in those areas have to bear the costs associated with living there, people in lower cost areas may be willing to price their labor lower than what is needed to maintain a decent standard of living in those high cost areas so its perfectly reasonable to have pay differentials, as most Institutions and companies do. Its not as if we expect to be paid enough to enjoy the same standard of living as we would in Tulsa, just a reasonable one.

I've tried to explain the reasons behind the fustration you see coming from the line, what drives their anger, I've been there myself, what I cant figure out is what drives yours.

 

[TWU informer]

That was my point.
That considerations need to be made when determining fairness. Should a guy who has to work weekends nights and Holidays get more than a guy who does the same thing but works normal hours? I say yes. Should people who work in high cost areas get paid more than those who do the same work in Low cost areas, again I say yes. The fact is that AA generates most of its revenues out of these high cost areas because thats where the customers come from or go to, so everyone enjoys the benefits of those operations, however those who work in those areas have to bear the costs associated with living there, people in lower cost areas may be willing to price their labor lower than what is needed to maintain a decent standard of living in those high cost areas so its perfectly reasonable to have pay differentials, as most Institutions and companies do.

ROFL
Your point first and foremost was a public challenge to my Christian Faith and you know it.

Whatever Bob, nice spin on taking a parable written about Obedience to Christ and turning into a human victimization of those that choose to live in high cost areas and work weekends so they deserve more. I am sure you disagree and have more answers, but I call this blasphemy and very wrong.

I have met no less 20 AMT's here in Tulsa that came from New York.
They came here to get weekends off, sold their house and came here and lowered their cost of living.
You on the other hand pretend that evil capitalist have imprisoned you into a victim and therfore must be compensated.
You are a slave to New York and working weekends only because you choose to be.

You had your line premium and voted no, so you victimized yourself.

All AA would have to do is take that $2.55 line premium, fund it into an ealry out package and the same T/A would pass over whelmingly.

I patiently watch for the results of the request for release.
You have patently claimed the request for release will get this moving forward.
Good Luck. But I suspect in the end, you will once again be a victim and pointing fingers at someone else to blame.

We are victims Bob, victims of Sin...
... and Greed Qualifies.

 

[Bob Owens]

ROFL
Your point first and foremost was a public challenge to my Christian Faith and you know it.

Whatever Bob, nice spin on taking a parable written about Obedience to Christ and turning into a human victimization of those that choose to live in high cost areas and work weekends so they deserve more. I am sure you disagree and have more answers, but I call this blasphemy and very wrong.

What next a burning Cross on my front lawn? You call my extrapolating the mesage of a parable, that fairness is not simply defined as the same, blasphemy? Funny but I thought that the intent of the parables was to enlighten followers on how to deal with things in life. In this one its that everyone is given different things and that we should all try and do the most with what we are given.

You can take it as you like but the fact is you dont want to address the issues, that being whether or not its fair that guys working nights, weekends, holidays in high cost of living areas should get paid more for working under those conditions. I say those things should be considered. What do you say?

You're right, I do choose to stay in New York. Thats where I was hired, thats where my family is and I could raise my standard of living by moving to Tulsa, but family is more important to me than a big house and a lot of new toys. Besides it doesnt change the situation. Somebody would have to be here, we cant all work in Tulsa. Over the years our real income has declined and I'm not saying that I expect to have the same standard of living as I would in Tulsa, but I want to be able to keep what I have and take care of my kids.

I'm willing to settle for less than WN and UPS to keep OH in house, that is our table position, but there has to be a balance, some consideration for the realities of what that collective decision means and how it affects us, its obvoiusly a decision that benefits you to a greater degree than us, although we all do derive some benfit, and requires more sacrifice on our part, than yours.

The fact is that most of our competitors do not have in house OH to the degree AA does and you are willing to provide AA discounted labor in exchange for keeping OH in house, regardless of whether or not it warranted. We can not support our families at the rates you are willing to work for but your answer is thats if you become the majority we should all be willing to discount our labor as much as you are willing to do despite the different conditions we live under and if we cant that we should move to Tulsa" even though its not possible for us all to do so. Then you get angry when some line guys in high cost areas get fustrated and say that affiliation with the likes of you is not in their best interests. I realize that you voted for the TA which included a highr line pay for those on the line, but now you cite that as a problem, but the total was still not enough to have a meaningful impact, there were too many concessions and two out of three people in Tulsa felt there wasnt enough for them either.

 

[TWU informer]

What next a burning Cross on my front lawn? You call my extrapolating the mesage of a parable, that fairness is not simply defined as the same, blasphemy? Funny but I thought that the intent of the parables was to enlighten followers on how to deal with things in life. In this one its that everyone is given different things and that we should all try and do the most with what we are given.

You can take it as you like but the fact is you dont want to address the issues, that being whether or not its fair that guys working nights, weekends, holidays in high cost of living areas should get paid more for working under those conditions. I say those things should be considered. What do you say?

You're right, I do choose to stay in New York. Thats where I was hired, thats where my family is and I could raise my standard of living by moving to Tulsa, but family is more important to me than a big house and a lot of new toys. Besides it doesnt change the situation. Somebody would have to be here, we cant all work in Tulsa. Over the years our real income has declined and I'm not saying that I expect to have the same standard of living as I would in Tulsa, but I want to be able to keep what I have and take care of my kids.

I'm willing to settle for less than WN and UPS to keep OH in house, that is our table position, but there has to be a balance, some consideration for the realities of what that collective decision means and how it affects us, its obvoiusly a decision that benefits you to a greater degree than us, although we all do derive some benfit, and requires more sacrifice on our part, than yours.

The fact is that most of our competitors do not have in house OH to the degree AA does and you are willing to provide AA discounted labor in exchange for keeping OH in house, regardless of whether or not it warranted. We can not support our families at the rates you are willing to work for but your answer is thats if you become the majority we should all be willing to discount our labor as much as you are willing to do despite the different conditions we live under and if we cant that we should move to Tulsa" even though its not possible for us all to do so. Then you get angry when some line guys in high cost areas get fustrated and say that affiliation with the likes of you is not in their best interests. I realize that you voted for the TA which included a highr line pay for those on the line, but now you cite that as a problem, but the total was still not enough to have a meaningful impact, there were too many concessions and two out of three people in Tulsa felt there wasnt enough for them either.

You got the wrong guy if you think I would burn a cross, much less in your yard. You have me confused with your liberal thug friends. And you didn't just use a parable to make a point Bob, you prefaced with "For someone who claims to be a Christian you need to brush up on Christ's teachings." That is much more than "extrapolating the message of a parable" by far and no matter how many times you claim you meant something else, that is what you said period. There is a huge difference between personal attack, and extrapolating the message of a parable", even as wrong as you are about the message.

Maybe you are being compensated for what you do and your abilites like the parable states rather than what hours you work and where you live. Ever think about that possibility? I mean I haven't worked at your station but I have heard rumors and seen a video or two on the news. Are your members busting ass every hour of their shifts while getting shafted on nights, weekends, and holidays? Should members that have spouses that work make less than those that don't since their cost are higher to live in New York? How far do you want to take this unfairness thing anyway? Using your logic, shouldn't a healthy employee who doesn't use medical get more compensation that the sickly guy taking more for medical payments? Next thing you know AA will take DNA and pay us based on medical liability potential.


I think I have asked this before Bob, but here it is again.

SPECIFICALLY, how much more per hour should you make than a Overhaul guy to be fair in your mind?

I mean given your horrible trampling by AA having to work Holidays, Nights, Weekends, even though you hired into that and agreed to it on employment entry, just as you did hire in at the high cost of living New York area, given your higher cost of living and that $2.55 premium wasn't enough, then how much is enough?

Again I voted yes, for your $2.55 line premium and would again next week.
The two out of three in Tulsa were only getting .81 cents per hour. That is why it failed. period.

So how much do you need to be fairly compensated for your endless and daily shafting?

 

[strikeforce]

You got the wrong guy if you think I would burn a cross, much less in your yard. You have me confused with your liberal thug friends. And you didn't just use a parable to make a point Bob, you prefaced with "For someone who claims to be a Christian you need to brush up on Christ's teachings." That is much more than "extrapolating the message of a parable" by far and no matter how many times you claim you meant something else, that is what you said period. There is a huge difference between personal attack, and extrapolating the message of a parable", even as wrong as you are about the message.

Maybe you are being compensated for what you do and your abilites like the parable states rather than what hours you work and where you live. Ever think about that possibility? I mean I haven't worked at your station but I have heard rumors and seen a video or two on the news. Are your members busting ass every hour of their shifts while getting shafted on nights, weekends, and holidays? Should members that have spouses that work make less than those that don't since their cost are higher to live in New York? How far do you want to take this unfairness thing anyway? Using your logic, shouldn't a healthy employee who doesn't use medical get more compensation that the sickly guy taking more for medical payments? Next thing you know AA will take DNA and pay us based on medical liability potential.


I think I have asked this before Bob, but here it is again.

SPECIFICALLY, how much more per hour should you make than a Overhaul guy to be fair in your mind?

I mean given your horrible trampling by AA having to work Holidays, Nights, Weekends, even though you hired into that and agreed to it on employment entry, just as you did hire in at the high cost of living New York area, given your higher cost of living and that $2.55 premium wasn't enough, then how much is enough?

Again I voted yes, for your $2.55 line premium and would again next week.
The two out of three in Tulsa were only getting .81 cents per hour. That is why it failed. period.

So how much do you need to be fairly compensated for your endless and daily shafting?

It's not about the wage difference, it's about TUL using the roll call vote to dictate wages, benefits, or getting released! Why don't you let the Line decide our own fate....and, TUL decides it's own! Why bother having 17 presidents vote on motions if TUL has so much power and can dictate everything?

So much for having seperate negotiations, and seperate maintenance locals because NOTHING has changed!

 

[Buck]

It's not about the wage difference, it's about TUL using the roll call vote to dictate wages, benefits, or getting released! Why don't you let the Line decide our own fate....and, TUL decides it's own! Why bother having 17 presidents vote on motions if TUL has so much power and can dictate everything?

So much for having seperate negotiations, and seperate maintenance locals because NOTHING has changed!

And you are most likely asking the wrong person. Do you really believe that the membership has a clue as to what you are talking about?

Why bother? Yes why bother, having the mechanics tied to the TWU and it's Fleet Service and the Industrial Union socialist manifesto. Why not have a mechanics only union? Why not have a mechanics only group under the TWU, because the International are the ones who really run the union. The Internationals goal is not the same for most of the mechanics in the system that work for AA, in my opinion. I look forward to reading your posts inthe Occupy Wall Street thread. Are you for all of the things that are proposed and do you care that it is your dues monies that are funding the agenda? The International could at least ask. The more this type of behavior that is allowed, the more members will ask the question "How do I get on Agency Fee?.