TWU negotiations.........what?

[TWU informer]

Exactly, and that is why the concession voter (pusher) TWU Informer is now trying to justify the roll call vote, and at the same time take cheap shots at Bob. I'm starting to think that Informer is working with the TWU or the company to see to it that JR and you are not relected, so he can get the Tulsa concession agenda through.

Of Course! Anyone and Everyone who thinks different than you must be in the middle of a conspiracy to destroy your hero's.
What a childish punk. Are you in a Gang on your off hours? I feel honored that you think of me as powerful enough to control Local Officer Elections at other stations.
Think again about the logic in your claim. Come on Man.

If I only had 1/10th of that power then you could justify blaming me for your problems.
When your following drinks the suicide kool-aid, feel free to blame me or all of Tulsa then too.

Better yet, seek out some relief from your paranoia.

 

[Tex-Mech]

When your following drinks the suicide kool-aid, feel free to blame me or all of Tulsa then too.

I'd rather drink the suicide kool-aid standing up, then to be on my knees drinking from the mans fountain.

 

[TWU informer]

I'd rather drink the suicide kool-aid standing up, then to be on my knees drinking from the mans fountain.

Wow you have now graduated to the next level. IQ testing next week.
You sound extremely loigcal.
You are actually much closer to the average TWU supporter than I am.

 

[Bob Owens]

From my recollection on a much earlier thread, I thought you said "the roll call vote wouldn't be used during negotiations"??

Then, people wonder why there's this rift between TUL and everybody else!!!

Dont recall saying that, it was used to bring back the failed TA.

 

[strikeforce]

My vote carries no more weight than yours. There are just more of us paying dues here so that is the majority.
What part of that don't you understand?

You actually have it back asswards. If the smaller group had equal or more say than the larger group, that would be YOUR VOTE CARRYING MORE WEIGHT THAN MINE.

Wake the F Up

Well, the majority is f uped, and again, WE will never have unity if this BS continues, and if this BS does continue, then I do hope AA gets rid of Tulsa once and for all!!!!!

 

[TWU informer]

Dont recall saying that, it was used to bring back the failed TA.

But was Roll Call Vote even used on either of two recent votes taken on asking for release like these emotional stooges are claiming?
NO

And do you think the recent loss of Scope Outsourcing 29D Grievances by the almighty Local 514 has anything to do with what is currently tkaing place in negotiations?

 

[Tex-Mech]

Wow you have now graduated to the next level. IQ testing next week.

Safe to say that it will still be higher than yours. I voted NO

 

[TWU informer]

Well, the majority is f uped, and again, WE will never have unity if this BS continues, and if this BS does continue, then I do hope AA gets rid of Tulsa once and for all!!!!!

Just because the majority is F'd up then you think we should remove majorty rule.

You are one strange thinker.

Hoping that AA gets rid of Tulsa is the BS and you just continued it.

. Stupid is as Stupid does.

 

[Bob Owens]

You seem to forget the House of Representatives is a larger voting body that would be between the membership and the one-man one- vote body and the House body is based on state population. I am all for the one man-one vote system if you will place in a balance vote requirement between the membership and the power hungry that is based on membership size.

Not at all, the membership would be the equivelent of the House of Rep, direct democracy. That would be the balance. Te Council would be one local one vote then the membership would be one man one vote. What you want is for the larger group to have two bites of the apple.

I am taken aback that you think our political system is so successful that you want to use it as an example for the Union.

While we have our problems and I feel that Non citizens (foreignes and corporations) should not be able to pump billions into our elections order to sway elections the way they want them to go the fact is that the basic framework has been very successful and imitated throughout the world, often with improvements(such as runoff elections)

One day you are very pro socialist and anti republic, then the next day you want to emulate the union after what you wish so desperately to change. Unreal. You are really just in favor of whatever helps Bob and Bob's agenda, like a hybrid of some sort. NO THANKS

Never been anti-republic, maybe anti Republican, but not Anti Republic. Ok so whats my agenda? Fairness and equality? Are those now Commie terms, I thought those were supposed to be what America was all about.

I can just see it now under your one man - one vote system, line locals would then outnumber overhaul locals and my job would have been gone long ago, and you would have your's brother.

How do you figure that when OH would still have the majority vote? You would have to vote yourself out of existance.

Thanks to the Line Guys here on this forum, I find myself more supportive of the TWU no matter how bad it sucks.

Today anyhow.

 

[TWU informer]

Safe to say that it will still be higher than yours. I voted NO

Congratulations. You refused $3.00+ per hour with a 6% singing bonus and have been blaming me and Tulsa for your financial woes ever since.
WE would currently be perparing to enter negotiations once again had that T/A passed.
You are one smart thinker no doubt. But that is far from an I.Q. measurement.

 

[Bob Owens]

My vote carries no more weight than yours. There are just more of us paying dues here so that is the majority.
What part of that don't you understand?

Wake the F Up

Yes and thats how it should be. YOUR vote. Thats why I say the check and balance would be that they could call for a membership vote if they dissagree. They would still have a huge influence with that but not be a tyranny of the majority like it is now.

Are you saying that all these years the reps from Tulsa have voted the way you wanted them to? Why did you spend all that time and effort trying to get the TWU out then? So when they voted to send COPE money to pro-abortion politicians they did so with your vote and you are okay with that?

You actually have it back asswards. If the smaller group had equal or more say than the larger group, that would be YOUR VOTE CARRYING MORE WEIGHT THAN MINE.

No. is the Senate fair? Should NY have 20 Senators to Oklahomas 2? If you want unity then their has to be power sharing, if not then dont expect unity. The minority could never force anything down the majority's throat because of the ability of the majority to bring it to the membership but the minority would be given the opportunity to bring things forward to the majority.

 

[TWU informer]

Not at all, the membership would be the equivelent of the House of Rep, direct democracy. That would be the balance. Te Council would be one local one vote then the membership would be one man one vote. What you want is for the larger group to have two bites of the apple.

No I just think the representative with 250 members should not have the same vote power as the representative with 5000.

Now if everyone was entitled to one rep for every 1000 member then maybe one-man one-vote would be fair.

Tulsa would have 5 and you would have to combine with other local to get one.

While we have our problems and I feel that Non citizens (foreignes and corporations) should not be able to pump billions into our elections order to sway elections the way they want them to go the fact is that the basic framework has been very successful and imitated throughout the world, often with improvements(such as runoff elections)

Why do you complain about it so much then?

Never been anti-republic, maybe anti Republican, but not Anti Republic. Ok so whats my agenda? Fairness and equality? Are those now Commie terms, I thought those were supposed to be what America was all about.

Fair and Equal except when it comes to line AMT pay vs overhaul AMT pay?

How do you figure that when OH would still have the majority vote? You would have to vote yourself out of existance.

Unless the council never gaves us the vote and used the side letter.

Today anyhow.

True, I could change by November 30th
That's Freedom.... Brother

 

[Bob Owens]

No I just think the representative with 250 members should not have the same vote power as the representative with 5000.

Really, so I guess Warren Buffett should be able to have more power when he pulls the lever than you do as well?
You want to model Union Democracy on Corporate Democracy where people vote the number of shares they posses, except you are plugging in members in place of shares. In your idea of Democracy one could obtian 5000 votes even if the majority of votes were not cast in favor of that person. How is that more democratic that saying that your representative gets to make sure that his members get to decide for themselves?

Why do you complain about it so much then?

Because corporations have twisted and violated the intent of the founding fathers.

Fair and Equal except when it comes to line AMT pay vs overhaul AMT pay?

For someone who claims to be a Christian you need to brush up on Christ's teachings. Try reading the parable of the three talents. Fair and equal are not absolutes, for us other considerations are made, realities come into play, things cost more in certain places than others, weekends, Holidays, Shifts, conditions, AA is one of the few companies that refuses to recognize these with their Union workers and you apparently support that.

Unless the council never gaves us the vote and used the side letter.

Whats stopping that now? Most letters are voted on by the committee so they can be blamed for it but the ATD could sign one without committee approval right now.

True, I could change by November 30th
That's Freedom.... Brother

Yes it is Brother, we have the Freedom to be as inconsistant as we want, but if you are trying to lead it makes it hard for people to follow.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Looks to me like the vote was 10 for the motion and 7 against with 4 not present. So if you aren't there you are against the motion? Am I missing something here? How did the motion fail when there were more for than against? Are we using Oklahoma math?

Ok let me explain this crack.... 2003 at the Tulsa Convention Center where the TWU is going over the list of concessions that we are advised to agree to....
Local 514 member - "Can you tell us why Title one and two are giving up sick pay and 17.5% pay while fleet service and stores are keeping their sick pay and losing 15% pay?" Local 514 officer - "The other work groups gave up more money so they could keep their sick pay." Local 514 member - "So we give up two and a half more percent and lose our sick pay? How do you figure that?" Local 514 officer - "They gave up more money than you brother."
Here are the facts.... An AMT makes more money per hour than a fleet service clerk or stock clerk (and rightfully so). So if we all lose 15%, the AMTs will lose more money than the others. The AMTs lost 17.5% AND paid sick time. In the opinion of the officers of local 514 in 2003, fleet and stores gave up more money than AMTs. Thus Oklahoma math was used. Since I know for a fact that this officer, who will remain nameless, was born, raised and educated in the great state of Oklahoma, and his math skills are obviously lacking, I call this Oklahoma math. It just goes to show you that you don't need all that "Big city fancy book learnin" to be an officer in TWU local 514. But at least this guy isn't an international vice president............. yet.

 

[eolesen]

No. is the Senate fair? Should NY have 20 Senators to Oklahomas 2?

Does NY have 10 separate governors or independent factions of government?... You might need to brush up on your civics -- the Senate was not intended to represent the people, but instead to represent the sovereign states' interests. They've been directly elected for less than 100 years...

To that degree, if the negotiations are representing the locals, you've got the right structure.

If the negotiations are representing the individual members, you don't.

Really, so I guess Warren Buffett should be able to have more power when he pulls the lever than you do as well?

It's an interesting thought, for sure. We'd have a much different form of government if it were weighted towards taxes or money.

Then again, we already see what someone like George Soros has been able to do with regard to using his money to influence elections and even monetary policy.

There are even some who think only those who pay taxes should be voting. That would reduce the electorate by about 50%, and be quite devastating to liberals, but that's a discussion better had over at the Water Cooler.