TWU negotiations.........what?

[skydrol]

The "Unity" and the "Strength", the "Watch Each Other's Back", within this "Union" is astounding. Unmatched in history.

This is why the company fears us and capitulates at every TWU demand.

Well if a requirement to be hired into a company is you have to join a union it will not make a man or woman hard core union unless they see a reason to believe. Most people who are working for AA and are members of TWU are doing so because of seinority at this point. You cannot leave without going to the bottom of the list at your new employer. The down side is the union ledadership is on company payroll. Do not understand why Tulsa cannot see that fact ? If you are the people doing the work (which is the few ) you have no need for the so called representation. Just like gas tax gotta pay it if you want to drive.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

But it is standard procedure for AMT's of the TWU to always blame someone or something else for our own weakness' and failures. Mostly comes from the fact the union on this property is "them" not us. Everyday I hear the union referred to as "them" or "they"....never "us" or "we".
[/quote]

You're right on point Dave. If it wasn't for Over Haul, the line guys would be making $50 an hour.(sarcasm) If anyone thinks this company would agree to pay anyone who is not in management a fair wage then they need to be drug tested. I have seen time and again how the company (and TWU) have encouraged this "us vs them" attitude in our own union. It always ends the same. We take a beating on our contract and our "union" calls it industry leading. Remeber 89 when we made record profits and then gave away our free medical? How about 2.5 in 95? Oh yeah, that was traded for an early out package. If there is one thing we should have learned from the past is that you can't take from one group and give to another. Sooner or later the group that was taken from will have numbers and will have to be thrown a bone. Remember shared sacrifice? Well the only ones who have shared it are the union members. Now it seems that some want others to continue to sacrifice so they can get a premium. I disagree with the industrial unionism argument also. Line maintenence and O/H do the same job! We are both AMTs and we have A&P licenses. There are positives and negatives to both line and O/H so lets stop the bickering and the negotiating and the finger pointing and get on the same page.

 

[odie01]

[/quote]
I agree 100% with what you are saying OldGuy, but even if overhaul and line were on the same page, we still would be getting screwed by our union trying to appease all five title groups. We need to seperate from the international who owns our futures with no vested interest, also, and I hate to say it, but we need to seperate from fleet service. It only makes sence to have a craft union for mechanics and related to negotiate a fair contract for our skill. The time is now to seperate from this union that has let us down time and time again, but without more help, we are screwed

 

[787nightmare]

 I know of a few people who signed up to work, but weren't chosen.

True.....

Why, pure politics or what? Curious...

Also, as a new hire, I'll get porked over the Christmas shutdown in TULE. Nothing accrued. Week of pay-gone.
Making $20/hr starting out, no less. Which is another item that needs correcting in this industry.
Minimum $25/hr to start & top out in maximum 3 yrs. The carriers want/need experience.
Make them pony up some money. This crap of dragging/holding the money 'til the very end is BS.

Bob?

 

[strikeforce]

You're right on point Dave. If it wasn't for Over Haul, the line guys would be making $50 an hour.(sarcasm) If anyone thinks this company would agree to pay anyone who is not in management a fair wage then they need to be drug tested. I have seen time and again how the company (and TWU) have encouraged this "us vs them" attitude in our own union. It always ends the same. We take a beating on our contract and our "union" calls it industry leading. Remeber 89 when we made record profits and then gave away our free medical? How about 2.5 in 95? Oh yeah, that was traded for an early out package. If there is one thing we should have learned from the past is that you can't take from one group and give to another. Sooner or later the group that was taken from will have numbers and will have to be thrown a bone. Remember shared sacrifice? Well the only ones who have shared it are the union members. Now it seems that some want others to continue to sacrifice so they can get a premium. I disagree with the industrial unionism argument also. Line maintenence and O/H do the same job! We are both AMTs and we have A&P licenses. There are positives and negatives to both line and O/H so lets stop the bickering and the negotiating and the finger pointing and get on the same page.

Hey OldGuy, all it takes is the 7+ negotiators.....guys like Cirri, Pike, JR, Owens, to get on the same page and come up with a game plan to nudge AA to negotiate in good faith and stop stalling. It's going on 3+ years of negotiating, if you call meeting once a month negotiating, and 8+ years of brutal concessions.....when are the union negotiators, aka witnesses, going to say enough is enough and get things rolling???? I think it's 3 years too many.

Line and OH will always bicker and finger pointing is human nature when things don't go a certain way. I'm sure there's bickering within the ranks of local 514 regarding premiums, 24/7 and anything else bothering certain work groups. The union as a whole has serious issues, you can't dispute that....and the problem seems to center on trying to organize 11,000 people to be on the same page. Everyone of US has our own wants and needs, and depending on where you live, those wants and needs vary, but WE shouldn't be jealous of other people for what they get or receive in negotiations. Now, if AA takes from OH and gives it to Line or vice-versa....I have a problem with that. I don't think AA took away anything from OH and offered Line additional wages or benefits....if they did show me.

 

[odie01]

Hey OldGuy, all it takes is the 7+ negotiators.....guys like Cirri, Pike, JR, Owens, to get on the same page and come up with a game plan to nudge AA to negotiate in good faith and stop stalling. It's going on 3+ years of negotiating, if you call meeting once a month negotiating, and 8+ years of brutal concessions.....when are the union negotiators, aka witnesses, going to say enough is enough and get things rolling???? I think it's 3 years too many.

Hey Carmen, I think we are past the, "game plan stage to nudge AA to negotiate in good faith." The mediators said, " Fck'it, we have other issues in San Antoinio to deal with." How about this for a game plan. Since Pikes local has 70% Amp cards signed, and Bob's is 95% signed, how about Cirri and JR getting on board with the program and looking out for their members best interests.

 

[Flying low]

Why, pure politics or what? Curious...

Also, as a new hire, I'll get porked over the Christmas shutdown in TULE. Nothing accrued. Week of pay-gone.
Making $20/hr starting out, no less. Which is another item that needs correcting in this industry.
Minimum $25/hr to start & top out in maximum 3 yrs. The carriers want/need experience.
Make them pony up some money. This crap of dragging/holding the money 'til the very end is BS.

Bob?

Company chooses which docks are going to work, those on the dock are supposed to get first pick. Then it gets open to other volunteers, by seniority.

Did you finally get hired on in TULE?

 

[Buck]

Why, pure politics or what? Curious...

Also, as a new hire, I'll get porked over the Christmas shutdown in TULE. Nothing accrued. Week of pay-gone.
Making $20/hr starting out, no less. Which is another item that needs correcting in this industry.
Minimum $25/hr to start & top out in maximum 3 yrs. The carriers want/need experience.
Make them pony up some money. This crap of dragging/holding the money 'til the very end is BS.

Bob?

In the past those who wanted to work had to have the work in their department. You could declare a hardship, like having no vacation etc. Then as this benefit matured, there had to be work and holiday work list was ran. People were selected by seniority, but the work was maybe on one or two docks and the holiday crew worked it. It could be made up of any fleet qualified mechanic and of course by seniority. Management determines how many and the rest who signed up, so sorry.

 

[Buck]

Hey Carmen, I think we are past the, "game plan stage to nudge AA to negotiate in good faith." The mediators said, " Fck'it, we have other issues in San Antoinio to deal with." How about this for a game plan. Since Pikes local has 70% Amp cards signed, and Bob's is 95% signed, how about Cirri and JR getting on board with the program and looking out for their members best interests.

OOO​

 

[Buck]

"The company has the line and overhaul fighting"


Now there's a serious case of denial.... M&E as a workgroup has always been fractured. All the company has had to do for the past 10 or 20 years is to sit back, munch on their popcorn, and enjoy the show...

There must not be any leadership? E. would you come to Local 514 and lead us?????

 

[Frank Szabo]

There must not be any leadership? E. would you come to Local 514 and lead us?????

Don't you really mean "come to Local 514 and herd the cats?"

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Hey OldGuy, all it takes is the 7+ negotiators.....guys like Cirri, Pike, JR, Owens, to get on the same page and come up with a game plan to nudge AA to negotiate in good faith and stop stalling. It's going on 3+ years of negotiating, if you call meeting once a month negotiating, and 8+ years of brutal concessions.....when are the union negotiators, aka witnesses, going to say enough is enough and get things rolling???? I think it's 3 years too many.

Line and OH will always bicker and finger pointing is human nature when things don't go a certain way. I'm sure there's bickering within the ranks of local 514 regarding premiums, 24/7 and anything else bothering certain work groups. The union as a whole has serious issues, you can't dispute that....and the problem seems to center on trying to organize 11,000 people to be on the same page. Everyone of US has our own wants and needs, and depending on where you live, those wants and needs vary, but WE shouldn't be jealous of other people for what they get or receive in negotiations. Now, if AA takes from OH and gives it to Line or vice-versa....I have a problem with that. I don't think AA took away anything from OH and offered Line additional wages or benefits....if they did show me.

I am not happy with the way negotiations have gone either. TWU sold us out in 2003 and they are taking their time trying to figure out how to do it again. Little's secretary makes $140,000 a year but they can't get us a fair contract. I have signed a card and encourage everyone else to do so. We won't get a decent contract while the TWU represents us. Offering ideas such as taking money from crew chiefs and giving it to line (this was brought up on this board) is not the kind of thing that needs to be on here. The infighting must stop. If you want AMP to come in then you have to stop knocking others. Don't you think the TWU loves the fact that they can point to this board and using stuff on here can tell the O/H guys that the line guys will control AMP and give your pay and benefits away??? Now is the time to act and run the TWU off. It won't happen if this continues.

 

[eolesen]

There must not be any leadership? E. would you come to Local 514 and lead us?????

What did I do to piss you off and deserve that?

 

[Birdman]

What did I do to piss you off and deserve that?

He's just venting as was someone else in his area yesterday. The whole hangar could hear it. :wacko:

 

[Bob Owens]

Why, pure politics or what? Curious...

Also, as a new hire, I'll get porked over the Christmas shutdown in TULE. Nothing accrued. Week of pay-gone.
Making $20/hr starting out, no less. Which is another item that needs correcting in this industry.
Minimum $25/hr to start & top out in maximum 3 yrs. The carriers want/need experience.
Make them pony up some money. This crap of dragging/holding the money 'til the very end is BS.

Bob?

If it were up to me I would do away with all pay steps, with the exception of a six month starting rate. I think steps weaken labors position in negotiations, creates divisions and give the company cheap labor in addition to providing an avenue to split the workforce. In the APA PEB the fact that guys were recieving raises as they moved up steps was held against the APA by the panel. The union argued that they had not recieved raises and the company countered that most pilots did recieve raises(because they either moved up steps or moved to bigger planes or the left seat).

I also think we should always have an amendable date of 12/31, and encourage other workers to do the same. When they do cost outs they are donr by the year, so the later in the year you get the raise the less you really make.

If you transfer to NY you go to step 3. Funny how the company admits that the starting rate should be higher in NY and pays an additional $2.72 an hour but they balk a Geo pay which is half that.

Not sure but you may be able to PV the week if you need the money, it would come off next years VC.