TWU negotiations.........what?

[Flying low]

My inside sources tell me you can take a "PAID" vacation week during Christmas/New Years break, right?

Only if you save 5-7 days vacation, depending what day Christmas falls on and when they start the shut down.

 

[787nightmare]

Only if you save 5-7 days vacation, depending what day Christmas falls on and when they start the shut down.

This really needs to be corrected in this contract. If they're going to "shut the base down"...then they ought to pay the employees for the vacation. Or...at least allow those that wish to come in a day or three to do so to lessen the impact of missing pay. I'm sure you'd get some takers-provided there was appropriate compensation for working holidays. Didn't they used to pay all emp for the holiday shutdown at the bases??

Boe shuts down from Christmas eve clear to New Years day and pays the employees. And of course, it's "sugar money" if you come in and work a holiday. But then again, Boeing makes a little more money than AA...

Here again...enter line maint. What about those guys having to work days(nights more like it)that the base mechs are off AND getting paid for it? Kind of sheds a bit of light on the line maint mech's delimma doesn't it? Thoughts?
Just thinking out loud I guess...

 

[Buck]

Only if you save 5-7 days vacation, depending what day Christmas falls on and when they start the shut down.

Or normally you can work in AO. My guess would be that there will be some engine and AO mechanics working.

 

[Bob Owens]

That is part of the equation. I will answer this way. In the contract it is stipulated that a Title II mechanic be compensated equally for a profession the only requires one license as that of a profession the requires two. Why does the company allow for this mismatch? It has nothing to do with the importance of the profession, all are needed.

In many cases that one licence has a higher market rate valur than our two. In JFK the company had a choice, either pay more or lose the hangar, or try and find a company to run the boiler system. Guys would interview for the job, management would tell them how much the pay was and only one week of vacation and they would walk out. So, if you look through the LOAs you will find one where they made the boiler mechanics the highest paid.

I do not feel that a mechanic working the line at DFW should be compensated any more than a DFW, AFW and now DWH base mechanic. If a extra compensation is needed for working universally line functions, I would be interested having that explained to me.

So no consideration should be given for working live trips, odd hours, outside on weekends and holidays?

Line mechanics opt to live where they do, be it family or something else. If these line mechanics have to commute because the company will not provide accommodations for them near the airport, then the equality of wages dissipates.That does not mean they should be compensated more or less. However as an economic situation, if they did not live under these conditions eventually the juniority would. So an economic pay system would be a more viable, above the base rate. I am going to ask the negotiators to provide Tulsa a Winter and Summer compensation plan. JFK et al would have to have wage increases all winter long but in the summer their pay would be reduced and given to DFW for the heat..... Now does that seem reasonable? The economic plan laid out in the TA will suffice. However, Old Guy you did not ask answer to the question of Industrial Unionism. Should a mechanics wages be held in check due the attributes of a collective of Industrial Unions, who feel that everyone be compensated the same?

Industrial Unionism has nothing to do with it. The airlines are one of very few industries that do not take location into account, actually most Airlines do, even AA as they give management a premium for high cost areas but they refuse to give it to Union workers, they also pay their mechanics in Europe the equivelent of over $45/hr.

 

[Bob Owens]

My inside sources tell me you can take a "PAID" vacation week during Christmas/New Years break, right?

I don't have the luxury or seniority horsepower to get Christmas or New Years off! Been that way for 20+ years.
So, if I want those holidays off....I need to CSO, which is also an unpaid holiday off. You at least get to spend time with family while I go and save the airline. Not worth the measly $400 I make working the holidays! So, who's really getting screwed here.....hmmmm!

As far as .55 for line pay......seems the company recognizes the value of the line mechanic by at least offering $1.80. That's $1.25 more than you or the union value the line.

If your jealous of the Line making an extra $1144 for working 24/7 and 365 days a year......come work and live in Chicago.

I like Chicago, but I don't like people that live inTulsa or any other city determining my purchasing power. I wouldn't go out of my way to take away wages or benefits offered to you by the company just because it's not offered to me. Like I told Buck....I can care less if TUL makes $10, $20 or $30 more than Line.....I don't work there. Look, if TUL can market itself to where they can command $40 an hour, good for you, but I know the Line can demand up to $50 an hour and probably get it because there are carriers paying that rate.

Dont mind HSS, he has the option to get paid, all he has to do is not use all his weeks at other times of the year. Kind of gives you some insight into ones family life when they feel they are getting screwed because they are getting paid to be home with their family on New Years Day, the 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day , Christmas and says that we are the fortunate ones who have to work all those days for just four hours pay per Holiday.

 

[Flying low]

This really needs to be corrected in this contract. If they're going to "shut the base down"...then they ought to pay the employees for the vacation. Or...at least allow those that wish to come in a day or three to do so to lessen the impact of missing pay. I'm sure you'd get some takers-provided there was appropriate compensation for working holidays. Didn't they used to pay all emp for the holiday shutdown at the bases??

Boe shuts down from Christmas eve clear to New Years day and pays the employees. And of course, it's "sugar money" if you come in and work a holiday. But then again, Boeing makes a little more money than AA...

Here again...enter line maint. What about those guys having to work days(nights more like it)that the base mechs are off AND getting paid for it? Kind of sheds a bit of light on the line maint mech's delimma doesn't it? Thoughts?
Just thinking out loud I guess...

If you don't have the vacation time and don't want to work then it goes unpaid. I say if the company wants the base shut down then shut it down. NOBODY except the people who maintain the buildings works. No more feeling sorry for the ones who use and abuse all there sick/vacation time early in the year. Might be wrong, but I think they are starting to restrict the number of people "volunteering" to work that week now. I know of a few people who signed up to work, but weren't chosen.

 

[Buck]

In many cases that one license has a higher market rate value than our two. In JFK the company had a choice, either pay more or lose the hangar, or try and find a company to run the boiler system. Guys would interview for the job, management would tell them how much the pay was and only one week of vacation and they would walk out. So, if you look through the LOAs you will find one where they made the boiler mechanics the highest paid.




So no consideration should be given for working live trips, odd hours, outside on weekends and holidays?



Industrial Unionism has nothing to do with it. The airlines are one of very few industries that do not take location into account, actually most Airlines do, even AA as they give management a premium for high cost areas but they refuse to give it to Union workers, they also pay their mechanics in Europe the equivalent of over $45/hr.

So no consideration should be given for working live trips, odd hours, outside on weekends and holidays?

OF course there should be consideration. But it would seem that this is a big issue for the negotiators to work out. I believe that if you take a line pay and an economic pay combined it may solve that part of the equation. As for DFW Line compared to the other Texas bases, the commute is the same. I see your point. I have never worked live trips, so I yield to this issue.

 

[Buck]

If you don't have the vacation time and don't want to work then it goes unpaid. I say if the company wants the base shut down then shut it down. NOBODY except the people who maintain the buildings works. No more feeling sorry for the ones who use and abuse all there sick/vacation time early in the year. Might be wrong, but I think they are starting to restrict the number of people "volunteering" to work that week now. I know of a few people who signed up to work, but weren't chosen.

 I know of a few people who signed up to work, but weren't chosen.

True.....

 

[Bob Owens]

OF course there should be consideration. But it would seem that this is a big issue for the negotiators to work out. I believe that if you take a line pay and an economic pay combined it may solve that part of the equation.

Our table position has that. Line pay and GEO. There is also a Weekend pay for the base. If a guy at TULE worked the weekends he would make the same as the guy working the lline at TUL.

Its obvious that the company is trying to split the line and OH. We on the line have supported reversing the 7 day labor loan and preventing elimination of the 1/7th rule, with the exception of DWH. We spent several sessions wraped around Articles 11 and 12 with 12 only TA'd last week. Hopefully the bases will remember that as issues that are important to the line are still on the table. I know Larry has never waivered, but we havent seen Tulsa put to the test yet. We cant afford to be let down again.

 

[Show me the money]

The company has the line and overhaul fighting, thus taking our eye of the ball. Our problem is the lousy union that represents us took away any leverage we may have had. With no snap back to the concessions, we have nothing in which to help us motivate the company. All we have is the 30 day cooling off period in which to make the company sweat. We have seen how the government handled that with Northwest, they were given enough time to hire scabs. In this economy the company would paint us as greedy, lazy, unappreciative workers. With so many people out of work all people would see only what we make (they have no real idea the liability we face) and agree with the company. I believe our only real option is to get rid of the TWU. We must take the company out of their comfort zone, and if they file bankruptcy so be it. We must put our direction in our own hands, not with the TWU who is more worried about how much the dues total is every month. Continental had a snap back and used it to their advantage to get a contract they could live with. I say we go down fighting as a group with people that will ask for what we want as airline mechanics not a group that treats us like a bus driver subsidiary.

 

[eolesen]

"The company has the line and overhaul fighting"


Now there's a serious case of denial.... M&E as a workgroup has always been fractured. All the company has had to do for the past 10 or 20 years is to sit back, munch on their popcorn, and enjoy the show...

 

[TWU informer]

"The company has the line and overhaul fighting"


Now there's a serious case of denial.... M&E as a workgroup has always been fractured. All the company has had to do for the past 10 or 20 years is to sit back, munch on their popcorn, and enjoy the show...

Indeed "E",

But it is standard procedure for AMT's of the TWU to always blame someone or something else for our own weakness' and failures. Mostly comes from the fact the union on this property is "them" not us. Everyday I hear the union referred to as "them" or "they"....never "us" or "we".

 

[odie01]

The company has the line and overhaul fighting, thus taking our eye of the ball. Our problem is the lousy union that represents us took away any leverage we may have had. With no snap back to the concessions, we have nothing in which to help us motivate the company. All we have is the 30 day cooling off period in which to make the company sweat. We have seen how the government handled that with Northwest, they were given enough time to hire scabs. In this economy the company would paint us as greedy, lazy, unappreciative workers. With so many people out of work all people would see only what we make (they have no real idea the liability we face) and agree with the company. I believe our only real option is to get rid of the TWU. We must take the company out of their comfort zone, and if they file bankruptcy so be it. We must put our direction in our own hands, not with the TWU who is more worried about how much the dues total is every month. Continental had a snap back and used it to their advantage to get a contract they could live with. I say we go down fighting as a group with people that will ask for what we want as airline mechanics not a group that treats us like a bus driver subsidiary.

Dam,
Now that makes sense. We need everybody who thinks like this to get off your arses and help organize.
http://www.ampnational.org/

 

[skydrol]

You may want to get your facts straight before you go spouting off. This is forced "unpaid" time off to the sum of $1,288.00 for an A&P at the base. Your current .55 X's 2080 hrs. comes to $1,144.00, plus you receive $1,288.00 for 40 hrs. of work, so when you add the two together it comes to $2,432.00... So who's really getting screwed here?

Why dont we get some facts straight. The local president at the time initials (D.B.) had some filers at Tulsa that requested input on the memberships priority on contract negotiations. Guess what the majority in Tulsa wanted base shutdown, since u seem to be a TWU drum beater I am sure u were at the meeting when the list of membership needs were tabulated. Why are u trying to decieve others on this board ? You have never worked anywhere but Tulsa so you are in the know of how it went down ? You know every year that base shutdown happens so if you decide to use your vacation before hand you take it off unpaid, when i was in Tulsa when this occurred many folks were happy because the cost of living is so cheap they were getting a extra week off and they planned on it unpaid. So try to spin it your way but the fact remains it was a priority of the membership of 514 and still is. How about being honest in your discussions and not lie to try to win a useless argument ? Why do you try to misrepesent the facts ? You should be ranting about how 514 gets you holidays off.

 

[TWU informer]

The "Unity" and the "Strength", the "Watch Each Other's Back", within this "Union" is astounding. Unmatched in history.

This is why the company fears us and capitulates at every TWU demand.