TWU negotiations.........what?

[TWU informer]

I'm willing to work outside the box, not be put in one.

Perhaps the next TWU t-shirt slogan has been born?

Only thing is, we previously agreed to contracts with work rules changes such as cross utlization, the company can eliminate 4x10's, and the 1/7th rule for 7 day coverage, but everytime the company tries to implement any of these rights, then productivity gets shoved up their ass. This may be why they are not interested in work rule changes in exchange for big pay increasees. Because we are not men of our word, in a way we are just like them, and when things do not go our way, they have late aircraft and zero production. For an example go check out the Cam Building on 4x10's issue, and Dock 1D for 7 day coverage issue.

 

[Bob Owens]

Perhaps the next TWU t-shirt slogan has been born?

Only thing is, we previously agreed to contracts with work rules changes such as cross utlization, the company can eliminate 4x10's, and the 1/7th rule for 7 day coverage, but everytime the company tries to implement any of these rights, then productivity gets shoved up their ass. This may be why they are not interested in work rule changes in exchange for big pay increasees. Because we are not men of our word, in a way we are just like them, and when things do not go our way, they have late aircraft and zero production. For an example go check out the Cam Building on 4x10's issue, and Dock 1D for 7 day coverage issue.

Then your management needs to be replaced. Once again contractual changes will not fix their problem.

If the company cant implement what they have then why go after new tools they cant use?

I believe in AFW management did away with 4/10s yet their productivity is the target for Tulsa.

The guys react the way they do over things they feel they can control but often its because of fustration over the things they feel they cant control.

 

[TWU informer]

Then your management needs to be replaced. Once again contractual changes will not fix their problem.

If the company cant implement what they have then why go after new tools they cant use?

What should they do Bob? Terminate a whole dock or building of workers for slowing down?
I think because they cannot implement the tools is why you are not getting much for them at the table.
If that is your answer to a serious concern then you are making the management point here not a point favoring the union. And I also believe there are alot of things the union should and could do to assist in these matters of contractual violations by union members, instead of making the agreement and then allowing the membership to be crapping on it. Perhaps a company grievance procedure that would penalize the union financially for failing to abide by the agreement would help here? Like a company 29D for failure to comply concerns that if lost by the union in arbitration would cost the union bank account.

I believe in AFW management did away with 4/10s yet their productivity is the target for Tulsa.

The guys react the way they do over things they feel they can control but often its because of fustration over the things they feel they cant control.

And I thought the workers so upset about not having contract they were not producing. Is that everywhere but AFW?

 

[Bob Owens]

What should they do Bob? Terminate a whole dock or building of workers for slowing down?

?? No.

I think because they cannot implement the tools is why you are not getting much for them at the table.

Whats stopping them?

And I thought the workers so upset about not having contract they were not producing. Is that everywhere but AFW?

My guess is that 60% looks better than 50%. AFW has met managements targets which I'm guessing have been set low. Line maint has been a problem since the concessions, in the words of Carmine Romano "we suck". Well we used to be pretty good, the decline can be traced to one thing-MONEY. Our guys are not as driven as they used to be so aircraft are delayed, flights cancelled and the MEL-NEF lists remain high.

 

[Birdman]

Only thing is, we previously agreed to contracts with work rules changes such as cross utilization.

We've had years of change from systems/structures in a/o to generals. It has been a dismal failure but has there been discussions about going back to previously successful classifications? We have an engine change crew that is very good at what they do. Ever see an engine change crew bid on the board? Me either. I've heard they take AOI's and select at will? Why not have a structures crew that works equally efficient, tooled to the max with all the required fasteners in portable vidmars going from dock to dock doing the major repairs many generals hate and suck at. The 737's have an incredible amount of structure work due to corrosion and stress, often extending the normal check schedule. If the union wants no part of this, which is what I've heard, then why is there a specialized engine crew?

 

[Bob Owens]

We've had years of change from systems/structures in a/o to generals. It has been a dismal failure but has there been discussions about going back to previously successful classifications? We have an engine change crew that is very good at what they do. Ever see an engine change crew bid on the board? Me either. I've heard they take AOI's and select at will? Why not have a structures crew that works equally efficient, tooled to the max with all the required fasteners in portable vidmars going from dock to dock doing the major repairs many generals hate and suck at. The 737's have an incredible amount of structure work due to corrosion and stress, often extending the normal check schedule. If the union wants no part of this, which is what I've heard, then why is there a specialized engine crew?

My understanding is that the company sought and got contractual changes in 2003, put them in place in Tulsa and the place has been a mess ever since, while in AFW they quickly saw it wasnt working and abandoned the new plan. Now the company is coming back and saying they need 7 day coverage, the ability to outsource whatever they want and sell off 25% of the value of the operation on any given year. Seems to me that they caused the problem in the first place and are using that to get totally unrelated other concesions. Its as if their car broke down so they claim they need a new garage. The answer is simple, go back to what works. Sometimes concepts make sense in theory but when put into practice they are dismal failures and egos get in the way of common sense. Aircraft maintenence is not a singularized skill, it's an assortment of many skills, some excell in some areas more than others, in an OH operation assuming that any mechanic will do any job as efficiently and as effectivley as any other is just plain dumb. There is an element of efficiency tied to proficiency.

Even in Line maint we have guys that are specialized such as Avionics, which has a seperate bid. The larger the operation the easier it is to exploit the effeciencies of proficiency. The smaller the station the harder it is, thus we dont have Avionics in class two stations but even though there may not officially be Avionics in the station there tends to be certian guys that get more involved than others in those items.

The arguement that class II stations operate with out Avionics therefore Class I stations should as well simply isnt true and trying to run an OH base like the line where any mechanic may be assigned any job is just as wrong. The volume of work allows proficiency to drive higher effeciencies. The experiment where Tulsa went one way and AFW went another has produced a conclusion that managment refuses to recognize.

 

[toroshark]

I hope the negotiators go to the June meetings with the same mindset as AA's liars. A counter offer of 2 less holidays from the unions last offer but $3.00 more per hour per license. That would be quid pro quo to AA's latest farce of good faith negotiations. The union really cannot go back and lower our proposal 1 iota until AA starts negotiating more straight-forward.

 

[Frank Szabo]

I hope the negotiators go to the June meetings with the same mindset as AA's liars. A counter offer of 2 less holidays from the unions last offer but $3.00 more per hour per license. That would be quid pro quo to AA's latest farce of good faith negotiations. The union really cannot go back and lower our proposal 1 iota until AA starts negotiating more straight-forward.

Since we really have no control over the goblins who are "negotiating" for us, they can do whatever they wish.

 

[chris perry]

Bob,

I used to work at the Rolls Royce,Jaguar Dealer in fort worth prior to AA. We revamped the way we did business in the same manner you described
letting everyone do all different types of work instead of just certain jobs. The first month we saw a 40% reduction in output, around 10 to 15 % rise in come backs or rework. It was quickly abandoned!!!!!!!!!!!!! it has been tried and tested many times. Some mechanics just do different jobs better and everyone finds their comfort zone .... Some people like engines ,some avionics and some yes tires and brakes.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,

I used to work at the Rolls Royce,Jaguar Dealer in fort worth prior to AA. We revamped the way we did business in the same manner you described
letting everyone do all different types of work instead of just certain jobs. The first month we saw a 40% reduction in output, around 10 to 15 % rise in come backs or rework. It was quickly abandoned!!!!!!!!!!!!! it has been tried and tested many times. Some mechanics just do different jobs better and everyone finds their comfort zone .... Some people like engines ,some avionics and some yes tires and brakes.

Thats the problem with having people make decisions on things they really dont know much about. They think of the airplane as a singular component instead of a very complex combination of systems. No mechanic knows everything about any airplane. Thats one of the things we like about line maint, its a continual learning experience but we all learn different things at different times.

The company knows this as well. During the Article 12 subcommittee meetings the company wanted to cut down on a mechanics ability to bid, citing that "churning" where guys would bid from one shop to another was creating inefficiencies due to the learning curve. So on the one hand they say they want flexibility, in that they can send people wherever whenever they want, to end up with a more rounded mechanic, but on the other they dont want a mechanic to be able to do it at his own discretion.

Its clear, the whole issue isnt about productivity, efficiency or competativeness, its about control.

 

[strikeforce]

The company knows this as well. During the Article 12 subcommittee meetings the company wanted to cut down on a mechanics ability to bid, citing that "churning" where guys would bid from one shop to another was creating inefficiencies due to the learning curve. So on the one hand they say they want flexibility, in that they can send people wherever whenever they want, to end up with a more rounded mechanic, but on the other they dont want a mechanic to be able to do it at his own discretion.

Its clear, the whole issue isnt about productivity, efficiency or competativeness, its about control.

From a negotiating standpoint isn't it beneficial to the union to have a well rounded workforce? It provides the union with leverage, does it not?

 

[Bob Owens]

From a negotiating standpoint isn't it beneficial to the union to have a well rounded workforce? It provides the union with leverage, does it not?

Yes, it does. Which is why I'm against limiting bidding in OH.

 

[strikeforce]

Yes, it does. Which is why I'm against limiting bidding in OH.

Then why doesn't the union push all the amt's in getting taxi qualified on all fleets, LMP qualified, avionics qualified,and any other qualifications necessary in becoming a "well rounded", and fully qualified amt?

 

[Bob Owens]

Then why doesn't the union push all the amt's in getting taxi qualified on all fleets, LMP qualified, avionics qualified,and any other qualifications necessary in becoming a "well rounded", and fully qualified amt?

The union pushes that getting qualified be made available to all and that you have to have your A&P to work the line. These qualifications are set up by the company, as far as the Union is concerned you are an A&P and you are qualified to do whatever your A&P allows you to do. These qualifications are things that management determines. The company under management rights determines how many and where the qualifications are needed.

Do you want the Union to manage the company or management?

 

[odie01]

Happy AMT DAY !!

AFW management would like to show their appriciation by offering a free chicken dinner catered by Babe's Chicken House in Roanoke TX. This chicken dinner is in LIEW of 8 years of concessions and several years of stalled contract talks. Will you eat the forbiden fowl?
Bob, I saw the letter on participating in AMT day events from your local, unfortunatly our local does not feel the same way.