TWU negotiations.........what?

[Birdman]

Here are the "work rule improvements and contract flexibility" that were exchanged for a "cost neutral contract". Allowing even more heavy overhaul lines to go to a country where a ten year experienced mechanic makes $5 an hour and an "OSM" makes $2 an hour.
www.kirotv.com/news/27915082/detail.html

Did ya happen to know about a section in their contract that allows maintaining 3 heavy checks and adding a fourth when the fleet exceedes 621, not to mention job security for current employees? And to boot they even get to start negotiating another contract next year. I couldn't care less what third world MRO's pay their mechanics as they can not compete with our turn times or quality, and we're not even close to our full potential.

 

[FWAAA]

Did ya happen to know about a section in their contract that allows maintaining 3 heavy checks and adding a fourth when the fleet exceedes 621, not to mention job security for current employees? And to boot they even get to start negotiating another contract next year. I couldn't care less what third world MRO's pay their mechanics as they can not compete with our turn times or quality, and we're not even close to our full potential.

Here's what Southwest says about its maintenance:

The Company performs substantially all line maintenance on its aircraft and provides ground support services at most of the airports it serves. However, the Company has arrangements with certain aircraft maintenance firms for major component inspections and repairs for its airframes and engines, which comprise the majority of the Company’s annual aircraft maintenance costs.

The cost of scheduled inspections and repairs and routine maintenance costs for all aircraft and engines are charged to Maintenance materials and repairs expense as incurred. The Company has “power-by-the-hour” agreements related to virtually all of its aircraft engines with an external service provider. Under these agreements, which the Company has determined effectively transfer the risk associated with the maintenance on such engines to the counterparty, expense is recorded commensurate with each hour flown on an engine.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9ODk3NDZ8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1

WN employs 2,464 maintenance personnel to maintain 548 737s as of 12/31/10. They're not doing any engine overhauls and, according to WN, heavy airframe overhauls are outsourced. WN spends about three times more on Aircraft maintenance materials and outside repairs than it spends on the wages and benefits for its 2,464 maintenance personnel.

 

[aafsc]

I thank God non of you are negotiating in my behalf. I see the great potential of a skilled group of professionals that can work circles around any third world country bumpkin. AA has chosen to keep it's maintenance in house and it's our leadership that has failed to manage and exploit the positive benefits, giving ammunition to those of you who claim it's best to outsource.

Never claimed it is best to outsource; in fact, I personally think that, by law, all heavy maintenance on US airliners should be done in the US. By having all heavy overhaul done on US soil, this will keep high paying tech jobs in this country and will eliminate the financial advantages that outsourcers (like Southwest) have over AA. In other words, ALL airlines will be forced to play on a level playing field; but that is not the reality of the situation. I merely pointed out what AMFA gave Southwest in exchange for higher wages. The fact is the 2500 or so AMFA mechanics at SW got a couple more dollars an hour so SW could move even more planes from the domestic hack shops who pay experienced A&Ps who are US citizens $25 an hour with benefits to El Salvador where an experienced mechanic makes $5 an hour with no benefits. These are undeniable facts.

 

[strikeforce]

Exactly. Should be required reading/viewing for everyone. Link needs fixed; here it is with the http added: http://www.kirotv.com/news/27915082/detail.html

Not all that difficult to see how WN pays its stateside AMFA-represented mechanics such a high hourly wage: those wages are balanced by the fact that its "Tulsa" is located in El Salvador. AA's Tulsa employees make high hourly wages for doing what other airlines get for rock-bottom prices, and, of course, they would like even higher wages than they're getting now (who wouldn't?). AA employs about four times as many maintenance personnel as WN.

UPS with its $50/hour? They don't insource their heavy overhaul. UPS has only about 1,000 AMTs on the payroll, only about 11% of AA's AMT workforce.

JetBlue maintains 161 airplanes with just 491 mechanics, according to their latest 10-K. Not surprising since so much of B6's maintenance needs are outsourced:



So all B and C checks are outsourced at B6. If AA matched JetBlue's maintenance program, AA would need, at most, 2,500 to 3,000 AMTs (perhaps even fewer). If Tulsa and AFW were exchanged for non-certified mechanics and helpers making $2 to $5 per hour in El Salvador, AA could easily pay the remaining line mechanics $50/hr.

TWU will NEVER agree to those dues cuts. Losing 6500 dues paying members will have Jim Little riding his bike to work. LOL

 

[aafsc]

Did ya happen to know about a section in their contract that allows maintaining 3 heavy checks and adding a fourth when the fleet exceedes 621, not to mention job security for current employees? And to boot they even get to start negotiating another contract next year. I couldn't care less what third world MRO's pay their mechanics as they can not compete with our turn times or quality, and we're not even close to our full potential.

Wow, big deal, 4 lines when they have 686 airplanes (Southwest+Airtran).When I was at EAL, we had 8 lines in MIA and a couple in ATL for 300 aircraft. How many lines does AMFA now allow in El Salvador? 6? How may do they still have at the domestic hack shops? How many lines does AA have for their fleet of 620 aircraft? How many shops does AA have for engines and components? With 686 aircraft (66 more than AA), why doesn't Southwest do ALL heavy overhaul inhouse like AA? After all, they certainly have the volume to justify it, right? They are not a little intrastate Texas airline anymore, right?And they can pay these thousands of would be heavy overhaul mechanics $45 an hour with benefits, right? Surely the great, never do wrong, employee friendly, Southwest can see the financial wisdom of doing all heavy overhaul inhouse instead of a third world country, right? The fact of the matter is SW can pay it's AMTS what it does is because of those 6 lines in El Salvador in addition to the domestic shops; you know it, I know it, Southwest knows it, AMFA knows it, EVERYBODY knows it.

And as for job security for their current employees, easy to do when there are so few to begin with since they never had heavy overhaul.

 

[Frank Szabo]

TWU will NEVER agree to those dues cuts. Losing 6500 dues paying members will have Jim Little riding his bike to work. LOL

AA has taken quite a bit of money from the City of Tulsa with the promise of maintaining jobs here. I do question, however, if the deal mentioned exactly WHO is to provide the employment. Selling the business would do a number of things, mainly removing the facility from the RLA, removing the TWU, giving base management a free hand to ruin what's left of the business by promoting their fishing and hunting buddies (assuming the present infestation is maintained) and possibly a cut in wages and benefits since these things aren't a motivator anyway.

What's comical is listening to the stories from the management types of how many people they're finding willing to work at a place with less holidays and vacation than its competition - there must be a group of high-quality individuals wanting in the door (heh heh). Had a guy come by the shop a few nights ago telling us all about the company's good fortunes in finding new people to hire and provide Little and Company will more dues income.

... perhaps the officers will have to drive Smart Cars instead of the Buicks if mechanic number drop sufficiently ... (picture Videtich trying to get into one).

 

[strikeforce]

Wow, big deal, 4 lines when they have 686 airplanes (Southwest+Airtran).When I was at EAL, we had 8 lines in MIA and a couple in ATL for 300 aircraft. How many lines does AMFA now allow in El Salvador? 6? How may do they still have at the domestic hack shops? How many lines does AA have for their fleet of 620 aircraft? How many shops does AA have for engines and components? With 686 aircraft (66 more than AA), why doesn't Southwest do ALL heavy overhaul inhouse like AA? After all, they certainly have the volume to justify it, right? They are not a little intrastate Texas airline anymore, right?And they can pay these thousands of would be heavy overhaul mechanics $45 an hour with benefits, right? Surely the great, never do wrong, employee friendly, Southwest can see the financial wisdom of doing all heavy overhaul inhouse instead of a third world country, right? The fact of the matter is SW can pay it's AMTS what it does is because of those 6 lines in El Salvador in addition to the domestic shops; you know it, I know it, Southwest knows it, AMFA knows it, EVERYBODY knows it.

And as for job security for their current employees, easy to do when there are so few to begin with since they never had heavy overhaul.

Line Maintenance is the Crown Jewel of Aircraft Maintenance. AMFA probably recognizes the economic realities behind OH, and couldn't compete against the EL Salvadorian hack shops. However, they were smart enough to gain additional wage and benefit improvements for the line mechanics here.
On the other hand, the TWU recognizes the realities for OH by diminishing the wages and benefits of all mechanics in order to allow AA to add more non-licensed, lower wage airline support mechanics. Dues collecting machine continues!

 

[TWU informer]

AA comes back with a regressive table position.
TWU ask for and is denied request for release.

And here is the TWU Local 514 Local Union Meeting Agenda

NOTICE: May 2011 Membership Meeting

Monday, May 23, 2011 7:15 AM | 11:45 AM | 3:45 PM | 11:30 PM TWU Hall, 11929 East Pine Street



Agenda
1.Regular Order of Business
2.Discussion and vote on sponsoring the 2011 Labor/United Way Kick-off Golf Tournament.
3.Discussion and vote on sponsoring the Claremore Veterans Center July 4, 2011 Appreciation Celebration.
4.Discussion and vote on sponsoring the Tulsa Talons for the last four (4) games of the season.
5.Discussion and vote on sponsoring Big Splash 2011.




Transport Workers Union Of America Local 514 , ATD, AFL-CIO

Mary Gorremans, Recording Secretary

Not even mention of contract negotiations.
No meeting to inform and rally the members.
Just sit on your asses and do nothing.....

And everyone wonders why I voted YES on the earlier T/A.

Because we are going backwards and no union leadership. Sporting Events and Social Events take precedent over communicating to the membership about Contract Negotiations. Yeah, give me a Tulsa Talons ticket and a free hot dog please.

 

[enough already]

AA comes back with a regressive table position.
TWU ask for and is denied request for release.

And here is the TWU Local 514 Local Union Meeting Agenda



Not even mention of contract negotiations.
No meeting to inform and rally the members.
Just sit on your asses and do nothing.....

And everyone wonders why I voted YES on the earlier T/A.

Because we are going backwards and no union leadership. Sporting Events and Social Events take precedent over communicating to the membership about Contract Negotiations. Yeah, give me a Tulsa Talons ticket and a free hot dog please.

Brother, you're out of order!!

 

[767 mechanic]

Exactly. Should be required reading/viewing for everyone. Link needs fixed; here it is with the http added: http://www.kirotv.com/news/27915082/detail.html

Not all that difficult to see how WN pays its stateside AMFA-represented mechanics such a high hourly wage: those wages are balanced by the fact that its "Tulsa" is located in El Salvador. AA's Tulsa employees make high hourly wages for doing what other airlines get for rock-bottom prices, and, of course, they would like even higher wages than they're getting now (who wouldn't?). AA employs about four times as many maintenance personnel as WN.

UPS with its $50/hour? They don't insource their heavy overhaul. UPS has only about 1,000 AMTs on the payroll, only about 11% of AA's AMT workforce.

JetBlue maintains 161 airplanes with just 491 mechanics, according to their latest 10-K. Not surprising since so much of B6's maintenance needs are outsourced:

You are assuming that that because a mechanic in a third world country gets paid 5 times less than an AA mechanic that AA would get their check done for 5 times less. I guess you think that the people over there are stupid. If a check cost 5 million here do you actually think that they are going to charge 1 million over there. They will charge a lower price to get the work at a rate that is much higher than 1 milliion. AA was selling there maintenace on the basis that the turn times were 2 times as fast and there for the planes were in service faster. The airline was making revenue off of this a/c and did not have to buy an aircraft to fill the down time. What about the rework items and the stuff that never got fixed. Mechanics at UAL,NWA,DAL and US have repeatedly stated that the o/t was unlimited after a plane came out of a check at on these butcher shops. Where are the numbers to show this? I guess the companys are hiding those numbers. It would not be good for the executives to prove themselves wrong to the share holders about there past decisions. This is the reason that the airlines are bringing the work back in house. It is slowed only do to the fact that they sold all of the tooling in their fire sales to try and show a short term profit.


So all B and C checks are outsourced at B6. If AA matched JetBlue's maintenance program, AA would need, at most, 2,500 to 3,000 AMTs (perhaps even fewer). If Tulsa and AFW were exchanged for non-certified mechanics and helpers making $2 to $5 per hour in El Salvador, AA could easily pay the remaining line mechanics $50/hr.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

And everyone wonders why I voted YES on the earlier T/A.

I think you were smart to vote yes. It wasn't a great deal but the offers don't seem to be getting any better. Might be a lesson for the future, as a release looks very unlikely at this point.

 

[TWU informer]

I think you were smart to vote yes. It wasn't a great deal but the offers don't seem to be getting any better. Might be a lesson for the future, as a release looks very unlikely at this point.

Time will tell.

A very large number of employees on the payroll have only experienced two so-called negotations between AA and TWU. That would be the 2001 agreement and then the 2003 reversal or restructuring of the 2001 deal. One would have more than 16 years of service to have seen or experienced more than those two negoitations and the 2003 restructuring can hardly be called negotations, it was closer to a shotgun wedding than normal process of RLA Negotiations.

I have been through and witnessed seven (7) AA/TWU negotiations since becoming a TWU member. This by no mean makes me an expert, but with the exception of the 1992 contract extension and the 2001 agreement, each has been either regressive or at minimum quid pro quo. I do not see the current environment as being a new trend setter. In fact with the Finance Department and Consulting Firms running the Airline, the true logic and vision on trend setting ideas will escape the company stooges and everything will be about dollars and cents with no room for spend money to make money ideas.

I am stuck with a union I actually have tremendous contempt for, and I am stuck in an industry that is rediculously flawed from Government Legislation to simple basic Business practices of not selling your product for less than what it cost to produce. I have 25+ years invested and am 50+ years old, and do not wish to start over now. But probably will be soon now.

The thinking or logic that escapes me on how or why the company spokes person can claim their latest offer wasn't regressive. Removal of more employees retirement medical and open ended contracting out language in itself is very regressive. That ignorance is why I think we are about to see the start of the Eastern Airlines type of meltdown at AA. In the end we will all suffer, and the liar spokesperson will become a victim also. To make such a proposal and then outright lie about it is nothing more than 55 gallon drum of gasoline being dumped on a small campfire. The emotions that this has launched into the debate is without a doubt going to become evident in the days ahead. Some investment firm hit the nail on the head by recently placing AA as a negative outlook. That could well end up being the largest under statement of 2011.

I am not sure we can get back on the same page now so hold on tight. Those stooges on the company side have more to lose as indivduals than the AMT's and sets the stage for payback coming in the form of Eastern Airlines destruction. Now I can see why the union folks at Eastern were outsoude EAL HDQ's screaming at the management folks about how the union won as the last days of that Airline were being played out. Nobody won, but revenge was handed out for sure. Sad but true!

Better start collecting memorabilia for selling on e-bay as the only valid investment in AA. Because the company team of Beavis and Butthead just crossed over the line of scorched earth and within the hearts of many employees revenge now becomes bigger than reason, logic, or respect. I wonder if those fools that did this can spell IDIOT? I know the one that was a previous TWU Union Officer and has some sport equipment with a likeness to his last name, and I also know he can spell IDIOT quite well. I also know that between his AA pay and his Wife's AA pay, he has much more at stake than I do here. Might be too stupid or even egotistically arrogant to see it coming though. It wasn't too long ago that AA Management was having everyone view the movie Collision Course on company paid time, I guess they wanted to train us on how to handle their stupidity.

 

[strikeforce]

I am not sure we can get back on the same page now so hold on tight. Those stooges on the company side have more to lose as indivduals than the AMT's and sets the stage for payback coming in the form of Eastern Airlines destruction. Now I can see why the union folks at Eastern were outsoude EAL HDQ's screaming at the management folks about how the union won as the last days of that Airline were being played out. Nobody won, but revenge was handed out for sure. Sad but true!

Before the stooges leave.......we need to plant a Big Union Rat @ Centrepork, and in front of Arpey's window!

Get the bar-b-que grills rolling because we're going to Centrepork and having one Big Bar-B-Que in front of the RAT.

 

[eolesen]

You're going to need a pretty tall rat.

 

[strikeforce]

You're going to need a pretty tall rat.

Will 30 feet suffice?