I found the video amusing but with a max base rate of over $168/hr, not including premiums etc, I find their "failures" at negotiations enviable. Yes the pilots have given up a lot, but they did manage to negotiate the best deal of all the unions on the property. Unlike us, they got back 9% of their 25% the first year after the concessions, (vs our 1.5%) this was in return for efficiencies gained and the heads reduced due to those efficiencies. We on the other hand got nothing for that. Over $500 million and we gor ZILCH, instead we were told "You still have a job".The pilots, for all they have lost remain near the top, not saying thats acceptable, because the "top" has deteriorated substantially, but we on the other hand lag the top by around 30%. We took a double dip, our standing deteriorated within a deteriorated market.
TWU negotiations.........what?
- Thread starter Chuck Schalk
- Start date
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
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I thought negotiations were taking place this week?
Why post here complaining about Pilots compared to us?
You have it within you to do something about it now.
When do we get to see the proposal? Still hasn't been given to the company yet?
odie01
Veteran
- May 11, 2010
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Rumor on the floor is M & E talks were over Wednesday with three days dedicated to article 12, no talks about money, VC, sick time, ect. It's also a rumor that AA is stalling again because they read a post on a forum that suggested a work slowdown. Just rumor's, maybe Bob can explain these transparent negotiations.
No money articles exchanged per the NMB, true.
Negotiations ceased this morning with our next session scheduled for early FEB. The update is out, Attachment 12.1 is proving to be a major sticking point.Company skittish about internet postings-true, but I didnt hear anything as far as a slowdown. 100 miles from LGA and GoGo is about to cut me off so thats it for now.
TWU informer
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Sounds good Bob.
At this rate we should have an agreement to look at and vote on by what about Thanksgiving?
maybe 2013 the TWU will share the proposal with us , and explain why it was rejected in august 2010
whats the sticking point on 12.1 or whatever
work slow down a bunch of b.s., here are guys working all the time plus working o/t and etc......
If the mechanics were doing a slow down, I believe the entire USA would know it. I see nothing but professionalism from the men and women in maintenance. I think they are showing remarkable patience with the lack of progress of negotiations, as the executives continue to give themselves bonus's year after year.
High Speed Steel
Veteran
- Feb 14, 2004
- 1,375
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12.1
The TA had some major changes to 12.1 that only effect the Maintenance Bases, basically the TA supported the company having the ability to move employees at will to address peek periods of work. This apparently was not favorable to the members as it pointed to the loss of overtime for covering peek periods of work.
I can see this as one of the reasons the TA was rejected by the bases and agree that it needs to be fixed.
I've had allot of heartburn with 12.1 since the Union and the company enhanced it in 2007. I believed the enhancement would erode the skill sets and was nothing more than a save the license campaign. Since this enhancement, I've read where Informer has stated his skill set has suffered for the lack of qualified Welders and we have seen the same skill set erosion in the Machine shops. Personally, when pondering my vote on the TA I was of the opinion 12.1 was already jacked up and was further pissed off with the enhanced article 15, and the combination of these articles and their intent only pushed me to the point to decide "screw it", and vote YES to stop the bleeding....
The TA had some major changes to 12.1 that only effect the Maintenance Bases, basically the TA supported the company having the ability to move employees at will to address peek periods of work. This apparently was not favorable to the members as it pointed to the loss of overtime for covering peek periods of work.
I can see this as one of the reasons the TA was rejected by the bases and agree that it needs to be fixed.
I've had allot of heartburn with 12.1 since the Union and the company enhanced it in 2007. I believed the enhancement would erode the skill sets and was nothing more than a save the license campaign. Since this enhancement, I've read where Informer has stated his skill set has suffered for the lack of qualified Welders and we have seen the same skill set erosion in the Machine shops. Personally, when pondering my vote on the TA I was of the opinion 12.1 was already jacked up and was further pissed off with the enhanced article 15, and the combination of these articles and their intent only pushed me to the point to decide "screw it", and vote YES to stop the bleeding....
odie01
Veteran
- May 11, 2010
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I don't remember voting on the enhancement of article 12.1 in 2007, where can I find the language on this? My blue contract book is dated 2003, and the twu does not send me the ammendments they work out behind closed doors. Good thing the majority of the membership didn't decide to "screw it, and vote yes"!
TWU informer
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- Nov 4, 2003
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After all this time, this is the first I have heard that content of Article 12.1 was a reason the membership rejected the T/A
This must have been part of the "Big Picture" that after 27 years of AA employment and TWU Monthly Dues I have yet to see also.
That is what makes reading this forum so great, it is often the first line of communication on issues effecting my livelyhood.
This must have been part of the "Big Picture" that after 27 years of AA employment and TWU Monthly Dues I have yet to see also.
That is what makes reading this forum so great, it is often the first line of communication on issues effecting my livelyhood.
toroshark
Senior
- Mar 12, 2003
- 266
- 294
If article 12 is becoming such a stickler then one can only guess how much back and forth article 11 will be. With the new SMA classification the company is pushing for I dont see how that is not a potential monetary article. The SMA classification can potentially harm alot of people that are already on the clock as well as any future new-hires.
Frank Szabo
Veteran
... from the company's point of view, that the entire idea ...
I believe we have a pretty good idea from the rejected T/A what the compAAny is after regarding article 12.1. They have always suffered from the false premise that, in all cases what 5 people can do, 10 can do twice as fast. Also what they will never except is that a happy well adjusted crew will produce far beyond their expectations without the need to reshuffle the deck on a daily basis. They're just dumb.
TWU informer
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I am sure the Fleet Service Clerk (Cirri) and the AMT that has been hiding out on Midnight shift in Tulsa (Hewitt) his whole career, or on Union Business can explain what you mean to the company morons. Surely when these issues arise, both of these guys have day in and day out experience of working AO Production that they can explain how management views on 5 versus 10 people doing the work does not be double the production. You and I both know a little accountabilty would go much further than moving heads to reach better performance. I just hope our two negotiators have been exposed enough to real life examples regarding production and not just thumping the old union drum on these matters. However, my personal opinion is that neither has been exposed like you have.
This is the Union Advantage of "secret negotiations". We never see the facts, we never see what options were available, and both union and management ignorance is not exposed to the employee/member, but instead the ignorance and self serving agendas remain behind closed doors. And of course given the fact that they are going to save the profession and all of us from ourselves, then the closed door is vital. And so we have this forum, to post our opinions, feel like we had a say, because we hope someone with a real voice is reading and taking what is said to heart. Not Likely. But every now and then they acknowledge slight fear or concern regarding postings here to keep us occupied and content. Both sides know that if we are busy sitting at the computer venting we are not taking any real detrimental action.
