TWU negotiations.........what?

[Interested]

Thanks for the update Bob.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Positive compared to the concessionary TA that is, basically, at best, its maintaining what we always had.

The insertion of the word "Illegal" to Article 28 was added because some time ago, probably before I got there, it was decided to incorporate into the language the letter on illegal job actions that came out as a result of an illegal job action that occured in support of organizing the agents in 1980, but they left out the word "illegal". This had been an attachment for nearly 30 years but for some reason they decided to incorporate it this time around, I guess there wasnt enough to address, I think the omission of "illegal" was deliberate. This would have been another huge concession over the status quo, bringing us even further from "restore". Under the RLA we can legally support another legal job action, even though it would be a contractual violation, thus possibly subjecting us to discilpine per the contract, currently a two year letter(or permanent CR1). Under the TA if we walked out or honored the picket lines in suport of FSC, or the FAs or the Pilots we would get permanent letters of discipline in our files. As it is our language is still inferior, at some other carriers "all" letters etc that are negative (discipline or not) are removed after 1 year, at AA they stay in for two and CR1s stay in forever and are frequently cited in support of discipline. Most of our peers do not have have any sort of provision for "permanent letters" like we have had since 1980 and also allow with the loophole on CR-1s. My guess is that of all the majors only Delta has "permanent letters", and we know why that is.

The changes to 30 and 31 are the same, not really a positive change or move towards "restore" but blocking a new concession that was put in the TA. As Gary Yingst was falling over himself giving the company everything they wanted, back in 2002, he signed off on a letter allowing the company to use the postmark date to not only stop the clock as far as them responding but start the clock as far as us appealing, meaning that our clock was ticking while the letter was in the post office box. I was unaware of this letter (luckily so was most of management) until 2009 when I was reviewing TAs while waiting for the company to respond to one of our proposals during negotiations in STL. We have the original letters along with the rest of the letters on our website. http://twu562.org/ on the Contracts link under LOMs. The changes allow the company to stop the clock with a postmark but ours doesnt start until we recieve it, thats how its always been at many stations and ought to be.

The changes to Article 16 and 27 were concessionary. Members on layoff response time was shortened and additional restrictions for stolen toolbox reimbursement, jury duty pay and lost or stolen badges were put in, the balance would be that there is no longer a cutoff date for recall (which in reality helps the union fend off representational challenges more than it helps the members), and the reimbursement was raised for stolen tools. The question is which changes will more frequently impact the members? The shortened response time or the elimination of the 10 year limit? My bet the shortened response time but is it really worth holding up getting to the money issues over?

Article 17 had an improvement in the chart for leaves but the company tightened up on language and insisted on a 180 day notice instead of the 270 that we wanted in there.

While we blocked a few additional concessions that were lumped into the TA I would not say that the company has moved towards restore or given back any of what was taken in 2003. Of course most of that lies within the articles that are still open.

Bob, It sounds like we are somewhat on the same page. I too was un-aware of the 2002 letter regarding time limits signed by Yingst until you pointed it out here. My comments regarding what has taken place have been in response to the TA and what corrections I believe need be addressed....

 

[TWU informer]

Rumors Floating Around Today

Latest Floor Rumors Regarding Negotiations.

Company wants 7 Day Coverage at Overhaul Bases, wants the right to move workers wherever and whenever they need them. TWU takes over Retirement Medical. Remove Defined Pension for new hires.

In Exchange

Return to pre-2003 Concession Pay and benefits. Company will hire new employees. Appx 2400 over life of agreement.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Rumors Floating Around Today

Latest Floor Rumors Regarding Negotiations.

Company wants 7 Day Coverage at Overhaul Bases, wants the right to move workers wherever and whenever they need them. TWU takes over Retirement Medical. Remove Defined Pension for new hires.

In Exchange

Return to pre-2003 Concession Pay and benefits. Company will hire new employees. Appx 2400 over life of agreement.

I do NOT want the twu taking over ANYTHING other than getting industry leading wages and benefits. The twu would simply appoint another koolaid drinking faithful and throw them a 6 figure salary and not have to worry about being accountable while they drive the Retirement Medical bank account into the red.

 

[Birdman]

Company wants 7 Day Coverage at Overhaul Bases, wants the right to move workers wherever and whenever they need them.

Talk about a productivity killer, this will do it.

 

[Hopeful]

Rumors Floating Around Today

Latest Floor Rumors Regarding Negotiations.

Company wants 7 Day Coverage at Overhaul Bases, wants the right to move workers wherever and whenever they need them. TWU takes over Retirement Medical. Remove Defined Pension for new hires.

In Exchange

Return to pre-2003 Concession Pay and benefits. Company will hire new employees. Appx 2400 over life of agreement.

Not a rumor...
However, I too, do not want the TWU controlling anything. But if this does come to reality, I suppose Little's secretary will probably have to make $250,000 a year!

 

[Interested]

I do NOT want the twu taking over ANYTHING other than getting industry leading wages and benefits. The twu would simply appoint another koolaid drinking faithful and throw them a 6 figure salary and not have to worry about being accountable while they drive the Retirement Medical bank account into the red.

I agree.

 

[paul1]

Talk about a productivity killer, this will do it.

we work 24/7 and so can you

 

[DallasConehead]

Rumors Floating Around Today

Latest Floor Rumors Regarding Negotiations.

Company wants 7 Day Coverage at Overhaul Bases, wants the right to move workers wherever and whenever they need them. TWU takes over Retirement Medical. Remove Defined Pension for new hires.

In Exchange

Return to pre-2003 Concession Pay and benefits. Company will hire new employees. Appx 2400 over life of agreement.

Maybe someone can explain how this is possible and not just pot stirring since the update put out by the boys only showed the cleanup of non compensatory articles by all the parties involved.

And, if it was true, every other swinging ***k out here with certs work weekends, days aft, and mids. Why shouldn’t the bases?

Just asking…

 

[Rogallo]

I do NOT want the twu taking over ANYTHING other than getting industry leading wages and benefits.

And they can't even do that. THE TWU HAS GOTTA GO. Sign a card and get it done!!

 

[Birdman]

we work 24/7 and so can you

I volunteered for weekend coverage before the 03 concessions because there was a premium in pay for doing so. I, nor those I work with, will be the well behaved productive crew we are now if forced to weekend coverage without like compensation. Many in Tulsa are tired of being bent over by the compAAny and are willing to do whatever it takes to get their attention.

 

[paul1]

I volunteered for weekend coverage before the 03 concessions because there was a premium in pay for doing so. I, nor those I work with, will be the well behaved productive crew we are now if forced to weekend coverage without like compensation. Many in Tulsa are tired of being bent over by the compAAny and are willing to do whatever it takes to get their attention.

bye bye birdy you guys are working as a mro. mro=mro wages and 24/7

 

[TWU informer]

I volunteered for weekend coverage before the 03 concessions because there was a premium in pay for doing so. I, nor those I work with, will be the well behaved productive crew we are now if forced to weekend coverage without like compensation. Many in Tulsa are tired of being bent over by the compAAny and are willing to do whatever it takes to get their attention.

So are you saying if put a vote and the majority ruled in favor of these changes you would revolt against the majority rule and would be less productive and no longer follow rules of conduct?

Why not change to a bid shift bid days off system like the Line and let the seniority dictate who works weekend coverage? What iif the weekend coverage was 3 - 12's for 40 hours pay? Maybe some bidders with much senioirty that work small business' out side of AA that would jump on that. You are too quick to jump out with threats without even knowing the facts.

We are in a majority rule environment and we wont always get things our way, but we should at least be men of our word and once a contract is signed we should abide by those conditions. To do otherwise would make us untrustworthy and just like management.

 

[TWU informer]

Maybe someone can explain how this is possible and not just pot stirring since the update put out by the boys only showed the cleanup of non compensatory articles by all the parties involved.

And, if it was true, every other swinging ***k out here with certs work weekends, days aft, and mids. Why shouldn’t the bases?

Just asking…

Since when you do you believe everything put out "by the boys"?

Management could be putting out feelers on their ideas for a reponse.

Maybe the delay is simply to let the TWU investigate taking over the Retirement Medical and cost it out. Could be a big windfall for the best insurance selling labor organizatoin on the planet.

Rumors are just that....Rumors

 

[Birdman]

bye bye birdy you guys are working as a mro. mro=mro wages and 24/7

We will never be an true MRO. You must turn a profit to operate in that environment. If you don't like the line come to Tulsa if you have the horsepower and enjoy your weekends for a change.

So are you saying if put a vote and the majority ruled in favor of these changes you would revolt against the majority rule and would be less productive and no longer follow rules of conduct?

Why not change to a bid shift bid days off system like the Line and let the seniority dictate who works weekend coverage? What iif the weekend coverage was 3 - 12's for 40 hours pay? Maybe some bidders with much senioirty that work small business' out side of AA that would jump on that. You are too quick to jump out with threats without even knowing the facts.

We are in a majority rule environment and we wont always get things our way, but we should at least be men of our word and once a contract is signed we should abide by those conditions. To do otherwise would make us untrustworthy and just like management.

The majority doesn't speak for me and as for the rest of your post I have a very firm grasp of right and wrong. I'm an honorable man and will give an honest days work in exchange for a fair wage. I'm not perfect and am prone to mood swings with the best of them. To work weekends without a premium is giving the compAAny something for nothing and to that I am opposed.