TWU negotiations.........what?

[787nightmare]

So are you saying if put a vote and the majority ruled in favor of these changes you would revolt against the majority rule and would be less productive and no longer follow rules of conduct?

Why not change to a bid shift bid days off system like the Line and let the seniority dictate who works weekend coverage? What iif the weekend coverage was 3 - 12's for 40 hours pay? Maybe some bidders with much senioirty that work small business' out side of AA that would jump on that. You are too quick to jump out with threats without even knowing the facts.

We are in a majority rule environment and we wont always get things our way, but we should at least be men of our word and once a contract is signed we should abide by those conditions. To do otherwise would make us untrustworthy and just like management.

Informer's on to some things here. The company needs to impliment something to sweeten the weekend proposal.
As mentioned, 3/12s...4/10s, with a "weekend bump" to appeal. I personally don't think the company asking for 24/7 is unreasonable.
Some of you guys need to put yourself in the companys' shoes. They need productivity gains in order to offset sizeable wage increases.
Besides, a lot of the weekend coverage will probably go to junior mechanics anyway(barring the single guy that loves to fish during the week)

2400 new hires huh? wow...you guys been working THAT short? I figure AA won't really start posting mech positions until after this contract is settled. All I've seen were the JFK, LGA line mx postings...

 

[Bob Owens]

Rumors Floating Around Today

Latest Floor Rumors Regarding Negotiations.

Company wants 7 Day Coverage at Overhaul Bases, wants the right to move workers wherever and whenever they need them. TWU takes over Retirement Medical. Remove Defined Pension for new hires.

In Exchange

Return to pre-2003 Concession Pay and benefits. Company will hire new employees. Appx 2400 over life of agreement.

7 day coverage was in the TA, as well as the right to move whoever wherever, and yes the company wants to take away our prefunding, pocket the match, and remove the DB for the new hires. All those were in the TA howver havent heard any offer to a return to pre-2003 pay and benifits. As far as hiring, they have to do that anyway, they already announced over 900 for M&R for 2011.That not counting attrition at the line but supposedly counts attrition at the bases.

 

[Bob Owens]

bye bye birdy you guys are working as a mro. mro=mro wages and 24/7

No they are an Airline OH base, and while they certainly do more and go deeper than any of AAs competitors they arent the only airline OH mechanics out there. Southwest is even starting up another line in their OH facility and those mechanics make SWA mechanics wages, a lot more than you or I even with our line premium and MRT.

We do 3P work at JFK, does that mean we are an MRO as well? And because we do 3P we should work for less so they can get more 3P? The bases are airline mechanics just like we are, they work for the same company in the same industry. AA will never staff for 3P work, they just use all that MRO BS to try and get MRO wages.

24/7 is a different point, we get the line premium because we work 24/7, now we can argue working conditions and the fact that the premium has never been where it should be but if they work 24/7 then they should get a premium for that as well. If they arent willing to give 24/7 for the line premium then obviously the line premium should be increased.

The fact is AA saves a ton of money by doing stuff in house, they have facilities already in place in relatively cheap areas and they get their stuff done cheaper. They have a lot of low paid workers who saty in hopes of getting better positions, not all the OH headcount is AMTs. The WSJ recently had an article about a company that paints planes, they charged anywhere from a minimum of $50,000 for a basic A-320 to over $200,000 for a 777. I'll bet it costs AA a fraction of what others pay to get an A-320 painted to paint their 777s.

 

[will fix for food]

I'll bet it costs AA a fraction of what others pay to get an A-320 painted to paint their 777s.

I would hope so, what with the planes being mostly bare aluminum.

 

[Bob Owens]

I would hope so, what with the planes being mostly bare aluminum.

USAIR has pretty much the same scheme, just different colors.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Painting Airplanes really isn't a good example, because a lot of that premium rate of $200,000 for a 777, is paid just because of the fact that the facility, that is doing the painting, has meet all the requirements of the EPA, and has all it's Federal documents, and permits, in place to attest to that fact. These permits today are almost imposable to acquire , and there are but a hand full of facilities in the US that can legally strip, and paint, an Aircraft the size of a 777! ------ Let me also state that the TWA Overhaul base, at MCI, "was" one of these bases. But AA failed to renew it's permits at time of purchase!

 

[Slopoke]

To work weekends without a premium is giving the compAAny something for nothing and to that I am opposed.

Why should you get a "premium" for working on a weekend? There is no extra pay in the contract for working a weekend. I have never received extra pay when working a weekend in the past.

 

[Birdman]

Why should you get a "premium" for working on a weekend? There is no extra pay in the contract for working a weekend. I have never received extra pay when working a weekend in the past.

Previously to the 03 consession contract, a weekend premium was paid. I worked weekend coverage inspection in Tulsa and was making about $38.00 and hour.

 

[TWU informer]

7 day coverage was in the TA, as well as the right to move whoever wherever, and yes the company wants to take away our prefunding, pocket the match, and remove the DB for the new hires. All those were in the TA howver havent heard any offer to a return to pre-2003 pay and benifits. As far as hiring, they have to do that anyway, they already announced over 900 for M&R for 2011.That not counting attrition at the line but supposedly counts attrition at the bases.

When the company proposes to give the TWU the paid premiums plus the match to take over the retirement medical, a 4 million pound rated chain wont stop the International from jumping on it. And given the alternative of 49 and younger losing theirs in the T/A, I suspect they will be pleased too. Question of the day would be, what happens to that money if Socialized Medicine is impletmented full tilt and we don't need the retirement medical?

My guess is the hiring will start soon after ratification and an early out retirement incentive will be upon us. This will quickly reduce the cost of the proposed pay and benefits increases. 2400 is probably the number that management expects to leave. And 2400 not being paid those pay and benefits reduces the cost substantially.

These rumors came from management early last week after they attended an "informational" meeting about negotiations. More than one in management from different areas claimed the same thing within the same day.

I think someone with some brains entered the nest of stupid and a plan was devised and costed out, and you will soon see it yourself. They just don't want you and your TWU Cronies to get credit for it so they leaked it out.

 

[TWU informer]

Previously to the 03 consession contract, a weekend premium was paid. I worked weekend coverage inspection in Tulsa and was making about $38.00 and hour.

I know of many that have been on 4/10's working weekends in Tulsa without a premium and are down right pissed off that management took the work schedule away from them.

 

[MCI transplant]

When the company proposes to give the TWU the paid premiums plus the match to take over the retirement medical, a 4 million pound rated chain wont stop the International from jumping on it. And given the alternative of 49 and younger losing theirs in the T/A, I suspect they will be pleased too. Question of the day would be, what happens to that money if Socialized Medicine is impletmented full tilt and we don't need the retirement medical?

My guess is the hiring will start soon after ratification and an early out retirement incentive will be upon us. This will quickly reduce the cost of the proposed pay and benefits increases. 2400 is probably the number that management expects to leave. And 2400 not being paid those pay and benefits reduces the cost substantially.

These rumors came from management early last week after they attended an "informational" meeting about negotiations. More than one in management from different areas claimed the same thing within the same day.

I think someone with some brains entered the nest of stupid and a plan was devised and costed out, and you will soon see it yourself. They just don't want you and your TWU Cronies to get credit for it so they leaked it out.
[ /quote]
Sure,--------Or maybe someone figured out a way to tether the membership "permanently" to the TWU by moving the pension plan!------- I'de call that a win/win for the Company, and Mr. Little!!! ------ And a lose/lose for the membership!------------ Happy New Year? :huh: <_<

 

[Bob Owens]

Previously to the 03 consession contract, a weekend premium was paid. I worked weekend coverage inspection in Tulsa and was making about $38.00 and hour.

$38 an hour is what Jet Blue pays their mechanics in high cost cities.

 

[Bob Owens]

When the company proposes to give the TWU the paid premiums plus the match to take over the retirement medical, a 4 million pound rated chain wont stop the International from jumping on it. And given the alternative of 49 and younger losing theirs in the T/A, I suspect they will be pleased too. Question of the day would be, what happens to that money if Socialized Medicine is impletmented full tilt and we don't need the retirement medical?

My guess is the hiring will start soon after ratification and an early out retirement incentive will be upon us. This will quickly reduce the cost of the proposed pay and benefits increases. 2400 is probably the number that management expects to leave. And 2400 not being paid those pay and benefits reduces the cost substantially.

These rumors came from management early last week after they attended an "informational" meeting about negotiations. More than one in management from different areas claimed the same thing within the same day.

I think someone with some brains entered the nest of stupid and a plan was devised and costed out, and you will soon see it yourself. They just don't want you and your TWU Cronies to get credit for it so they leaked it out.

Or perhaps management was leaking out "info" to see how it was recieved. I dont see them offering an early out for the line where they are short and there isnt a ready supply waiting to come in and replace the guys we had, they didnt offer our guys the VBR either. When I asked why our guys couldnt get it, over a year ago I was told "we cant afford to lose our line guys", they later stated they expect to lose 400 to 500 a year. The FAA only gets around 3000 new A&Ps a year coming into the Aviation industry. That covers everyone, from the pilot who gets his A&P so he can run an air Taxi service like the one that Senator Steven died in to the guys at Boeing, to the guys working on crop dusters to the guys working Helicopters to the guys at FBO s and of course the airlines. The FAA figures there are around 300,000 A&Ps out there and the numbers they are issueing come out to around 1% while on average. If you figure that the carreer of an A&P at the very high end is 52 years (age 18 to 70) that means they would need around 6000 a year simply for attrition, a more realistic range would be from 25 to 60, then they would need an average of 8500/year. Thats assuming no growth in the industry and that everyone who gets their license actually chooses to go into the industry, which isnt very likely, it wasnt that likely 30 years ago when I went to A&P schoool and its even less likely today. If I look at the 100 or so that graduated with me in 1980 only around 10% continue to work in the industry today.

Socialized Medicine is looking less and less likely and as long as people continue to believe all the lies the Insurance companies put out about it and elect politicains(who get their medical coverage from the government) who side with the Insurance companies.

While I can only speak for myself, I dont think the sub-committee would be too responsive to a TWU controlled health insurance plan, after all when we look at the company we see an organization that has reduced its debt, cut its workforce by 50,000 and actually increased revenues, whereas the TWU has seen its assetts halved, membership and revenue decline over that same period. Only one member of the sub-committee is from the International and he would have to convince three of us that its a good deal. If it got brought back to the full committee it may be different but then again I dont think the membership would be too receptive to the idea.

Right now the company is having trouble retaining workers in the high cost areas, we have middle aged workers, the ones who are usually considered at the prime of productivity and the least likely to quit, quit and go into other endeavors, I've never seen anything like this before, sure its a only a trickle but we are in a recession with 15 million unemployed and we have people quitting! What do you think it will be like when the economy recovers? Obviously they are losing their most motivated workers now, what will they be left with when the economy recovers and better jobs are even easier to find?

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip
Right now the company is having trouble retaining workers in the high cost areas, we have middle aged workers, the ones who are usually considered at the prime of productivity and the least likely to quit, quit and go into other endeavors, I've never seen anything like this before, sure its a only a trickle but we are in a recession with 15 million unemployed and we have people quitting! What do you think it will be like when the economy recovers? Obviously they are losing their most motivated workers now, what will they be left with when the economy recovers and better jobs are even easier to find?

Gee - I wonder if the "talent" of Centrepork has found a way to quantify this problem on the balance sheet and get a write-off from it? Will they be able to do so without pointing a finger at themselves and the BOD, showing the extreme stupidity of running a major corporation as a poker game against the rabble?

 

[Hackman]

$38 an hour is what Jet Blue pays their mechanics in high cost cities.

Today I was informed from a very reliable source that our AMT friends at Fed Ex recently got a raise to $44hr, and at that rate he said they are making around $90k a year with no overtime.

I know AA management at Centerpork only uses the cargo carriers and Southwest when it suits them, so I guess the TWu International will have to forgo this information in it's next concession package they will push for a "yes" vote on. :blink: