TWU negotiations.........what?

Your right Conehead, as a fellow spark chaser I would like to apologize for my immature behavior on some of my posts. Sometimes I'm 30meg. between the ears, and I say things I really don't mean. Jerry Springer had an epilogue Friday afternoon, that really put me in deep thought. He said, "Never argue with an Idiot, they will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience." I've been arguing for months on how AMP will restore Democracy to our broken union, how all officers are elected and can be recalled by the membership, how we control 100% of the money and can hire lawyers, economists, paleontologist and even gynecologist (for TWU Informer). It's just frustrating sometimes that people don't see things outside the twu box. I will be a better person next year, I have a new years Revolution and it's AMP! Baby!
 
TWU informer said:
Hackman, think about your facts.

It was Wes Nightingale the was accosted by the Crew Chief in the Seat Shop, not me. Cannot remember that Crew Chiefs name but I think he was nick named "The Strangler". But your age is causing memory fault...that wasn't me.

But you are right about one thing, helping "strong union men" like yourself get cards out of Tulsa is NOT on my agenda.

Give us a specific example of when I folded during the AMFA drive. Because I have a much different memory of those times.
I would love to hear your specifics.

Have you ever considered taking a few more steroids and beating signatures on cards out of pussies to get your way?
You may as well, your skills as an orgainzer turn 100 away for every 1 you get. Maybe you can give us a lesson in the strategy of attacking and brow beatiing every potential supporter that comes your way? Because you stick with your already signed allies like glue, and then alienate those you need to get signed on a regular basis. We had a few organizers like you during the AMFA Drive. One of the ignorant fools solely responsible for dropping by the Machinist area and proclaiming how each of them were screwed when AMFA came to the property. I never understood this as a legitimate attempt to succeed. You seem to have the same skills. Can you help me understand how that is working for ya?
Click to expand...
Hello again TWu Informer (Reformer?), it's time again for as the Waffle Boy turns. I've been busy for the past few days, as I have a life that doesn't leave me hours upon hours to spend here as some such as yourself on this BB whining about what the TWu 514/International doesn't do, or why if I was a 514 member I won't do anything about it but cry. Such as you continuously do here. Maybe borrow a TWu Strike Snake shirt from Speedy and "hissssss" your way to TWu stardom.

Since your too old to remember, here is some specifics of "how I folded" (or Waffled) as you requested:

Waffle Boy fact #1; The incident in the seat shop I mentioned wasn't about the "Seat Shop Strangler" (RIP Wes). It concerned a company bootlicker loud mouth of a Crew Chief named Bob Hickman. Remember him? Sure you do. Bob, who apparently you seriously pissed off for some reason, and he came up loudly barking in your puppy dog mug and had soon reduced the Waffle Boy to a studdering, stammering blob of runny maple syrup along with welling up in a trail of Waffle Boy tears. I guess I should have not used term "accosted", as ol' Bob didn't have to go that far to get the Waffle Boy knees quaking in fear and the water works flowing. Good thing what happened to Wes didn't happen to you, we wouldn't have enough Mrs. Butterworth to sooth a torn up Waffle Boy.

Waffle Boy fact #2; Picketing the TWu International in Bedford Tx. As the TWu membership was again upset with another TWu sell out that was the 6 year SRP infused contract of 1995. The idea of the picket of our own union was a great idea, as about 200 members showed up in force to voice our displeasure with the unaccountable TWu International that resides in Bedford. However, the Waffle Boy was at his milk toast best during the action. When a news crew stopped their vehicle and asked what we were protesting, what was the Waffle Boy response? Something to the effect; "Well to tell you the truth, I really don't know why we are here". Witnessed by several, many of whom still shake their heads today in disbelief. A classic Waffle to be sure.

Waffle Boy fact #3; Petition against the TWu Ratification Procedures for the 1995 Contract. A petition was started by the Waffle Boy against the 1995 Sellout and how the ratification procedures were mishandled by the TWu International. After most of the local membership was canvased, the hard work of getting the signatures was done, and signed the petition was ready to be submitted to the TWu International. Waffle Boy decides that's it's not a "good idea" and attempts to scrap the whole process after all the work was done to get the petition signed. Good thing another dual petition was run, as it was decided that if it came down to having the nut sack to submit the petition, Waffle Boy wouldn't be the one. They were correct unfortunately.

Waffle Boy fact #4; The Waffle Boy is born. After the picket of the TWu International Waffle Boy non-response and the subsequent Petition debacle. Coworkers had enough of the Waffle Boy "Leggo my Eggo" cowardice 'cause I'm a sceered of my own shadow. Complete with arms and legs, a Waffle Boy character was created and pictures of "The Mighty Waffle Boy" are pasted all over. The newly minted Waffle Boy had found a new residence on the tool box of the accused and surrounding areas of the shop. The wailing and knashing of teeth then ensue, and tears were again falling.

There you go YES man. There is so much more, but no need to go over all the sadness of Waffle Boy history. As that weak knee'd trail of tears repeats itself today as we see with your admitted YES vote on the latest TWu sellout of 2010.

You are correct about one thing, helping get the required cards out of Tulsa was not your agenda. The drive fell short by 17 cards. I still have a hard time as to why you wasted your time with the card drive or even set foot in the AMFA 12 Local office in Tulsa. I guess you just liked to hang out? I can't remember an incident of myself "brow beating" anyone to get them to sign a card. Got any lies you can tell when I did? I guess you think arguing a point instead of cowering in tears is considered a radical idea as a Waffle Boy. Telling a machinist they are screwed if AMFA came on the property is pure comedy, as they are TWu screwed anyway! No question there.

As the song goes, you can't be a pimp and a prostitute too.....

...and you sure ain't pimping for the TWu.
 
Point of order guys.

Negotiations resume this week. This is the first time the two committees will meet with the company and the mediator for negotiations since the membership rejected the TA back in August.

None of the other workgroups have had any success in getting the company to budge off demanding more concessions either. The company, is claiming they want "cost neutral", they expect labor costs to stay the same and let inflation and raising medical premiums cut our pay even more. They are making these demands despite soaring revenue and declining headcount.

To date the company has ignored all the unions, TWU, APFA and APA and taken the position that we are all satisfied with what we are getting, they even boast about things like the 99% on time performance over Thanksgiving. It has long been managaements position that as long as their planes are going out on time that the workers are content and the company doesnt have to do anything the Unions ask of them.

I think the companys assumptions are wrong. They say they dont understand why we turned down the TA, we've been telling them for three years but they refuse to listen to us, the APFA or the APA. We sent them a clear message by rejecting the TA.

By the end of the week it will be clear to everyone whether or not the company got the message.

If they didnt get the message through us or through a rejected TA we have to try another way, a way that gets them to listen.

Next week is Christmas.

Another year of concessions coming to an end.
 
Bob Owens said:
Point of order guys.

Negotiations resume this week. This is the first time the two committees will meet with the company and the mediator for negotiations since the membership rejected the TA back in August.

None of the other workgroups have had any success in getting the company to budge off demanding more concessions either. The company, is claiming they want "cost neutral", they expect labor costs to stay the same and let inflation and raising medical premiums cut our pay even more. They are making these demands despite soaring revenue and declining headcount.

To date the company has ignored all the unions, TWU, APFA and APA and taken the position that we are all satisfied with what we are getting, they even boast about things like the 99% on time performance over Thanksgiving. It has long been managaements position that as long as their planes are going out on time that the workers are content and the company doesnt have to do anything the Unions ask of them.

I think the companys assumptions are wrong. They say they dont understand why we turned down the TA, we've been telling them for three years but they refuse to listen to us, the APFA or the APA. We sent them a clear message by rejecting the TA.

By the end of the week it will be clear to everyone whether or not the company got the message.

If they didnt get the message through us or through a rejected TA we have to try another way, a way that gets them to listen.

Next week is Christmas.

Another year of concessions coming to an end.
Click to expand...
It's times like these I wish I was back out on the line, Good luck and Stay the Course.
Please make sure all the locals are informed, so they can pass the word on what's happening to the floor.
Thanks
 
Bob Owens said:
Point of order guys.

Negotiations resume this week. This is the first time the two committees will meet with the company and the mediator for negotiations since the membership rejected the TA back in August.

None of the other workgroups have had any success in getting the company to budge off demanding more concessions either. The company, is claiming they want "cost neutral", they expect labor costs to stay the same and let inflation and raising medical premiums cut our pay even more. They are making these demands despite soaring revenue and declining headcount.

To date the company has ignored all the unions, TWU, APFA and APA and taken the position that we are all satisfied with what we are getting, they even boast about things like the 99% on time performance over Thanksgiving. It has long been managaements position that as long as their planes are going out on time that the workers are content and the company doesnt have to do anything the Unions ask of them.

I think the companys assumptions are wrong. They say they dont understand why we turned down the TA, we've been telling them for three years but they refuse to listen to us, the APFA or the APA. We sent them a clear message by rejecting the TA.

By the end of the week it will be clear to everyone whether or not the company got the message.

If they didnt get the message through us or through a rejected TA we have to try another way, a way that gets them to listen.

Next week is Christmas.

Another year of concessions coming to an end.
Click to expand...
I too wish you good luck with the stalemate of negotiations Bob.....with this company you'll need all the luck you can find.

The main problem is the TWu International will bring back more concessions as directed no matter what you do or how hard you fight. It's what the company has told it's wholly owned toy lapdog union they will agree to, or else. Little Jimmy and his TWu sellout friends will not jeopardize his millions upon millions in dues flow used to fund the TWu International lavish six-figure pay and lifestyle. The TWu International knows they can't be removed from office, so they can do as they please.

The TWu, unlike the APFA or the APA, continues to push the concessionary contract on us as we are all FULLY AWARE of (some of us anyhow) in August 2010. You don't hear the other AA unions doing the companies bidding, such as complaining about high fuel costs to their membership or participating in "Working Together' scams. No, the other AA unions are waiting for the next TWu sellout,t so they can clean up.

Will the TWu International lead any type of job action if or when it becomes necessary Bob? No they will not, unless directed to do so by AA management. It's Business Unionism 101 again, and to keep the millions flowing in the TWu coffers the International will sellout once again.....wait and see.

The only way we have any hope at all is to be finally be rid of the TWu International parasites.
 
Individual perceptions of the events of the past, when skewed by contempt, resentments, or hate cannot be changed by arguement. I will just say that I am lucky to not have such feelings for another human being. I can accept that there are some people walking the earth with hate and contempt in their hearts that is so over powering that illusions of false premise will be buried within their souls. These souls can and will use you when needed for personal gain and can and will turn on you when that suits their personal need.

Those of you who know me personally or those that were with the Organizing Committee during the AMFA Drive in Tulsa know my character. Those that were also Plaintiffs in the Lawsuit against American Airlines for violating our rights under the Railway Labor Act know of my resolve to fight for that which is just and right.

Those of you that choose to believe or follow individuals that use intimidation, contempt of others, and have heavy hearts full of resentment know that I will not waste valuable time working on that which cannot be changed. I will not worry what such persons think of me personally. Their views are unimportant to me.

I concede that I have wasted some valued time on a couple of these types within the last few days. And I also resolve to not waste anymore.

The TWU has proven with documentation that in the past I was an Industrial Union believer and drank their Kool-Aid. For this I find no shame, instead I choose to recognize that I am more educated about the facts and what is wrong as a result. While some will use this fact as a bashing stick to invoke their perceived power and strength, I choose to follow a more humble path and know that every die-hard TWU Supporter on this board or on the Tulsa Base is just one revelation away from becoming the next leader of a movement to oust the problem. And once that happens, I resolve to never hate or have contempt for that person, to never chastise him or her about their past views, as I have been there too.

Thank God for our Freedom and the right to choose and change our minds.


Back to the Topic,
Good Luck Bob and Negotiators. Please conduct your self as Professionals as you sit across from the Liars and Thieves. Allow your actions to reflect a positive view on all us that have a stake in the outcome.
 
You ever wonder why the TWU has a former ECLAT vice president who left his
job at AA just days after the 2003 concession package passed. By the way,
Mr. Donnelly was the financial expert behind the 2003 concession strategy
for the TWU...so you see were this is going! And remember good old "ECLAT",
they did work for both AA and the TWU for the 2003 concession package. Why
is Mr. Donnelly explaining the cost of the M&R proposal to the negotiating
committee ..???...maybe so they can ponder why it is to expensive for AA to
accept the proposal?

PS...Randy Babbitt, he is now over the Director of the FAA..he founded ECLAT
and has since been proved as a fraud who received his degree through a
diploma mill...kinda sounds like the same thing our TWU International
President used for his educational credentials until he was called on it


The history of our economist Mr. Donnelly....

1) Fleet Service Clerk involved in the 2001 negotiations.

2) (in 2003 Mr. Donnelly is doing "research analysis" for the TWU)

http://airlineforums.com/topic/3810-are-you-ready-for-this/

3) After the 2003 concession package he did the financial "research
analysis" on, he

leaves AA and the TWU for a job at ECLAT (who were the TWU's economic
and

Financial Advisors). At ECLAT he quickly becomes a Vice President.

4) In 2005, while at ECLAT, Mr. Donnelly was featured in an article titled
"Increasing

productivity a necessity for airlines". Extracted from the article....
"It's not just the

wage that matters," Donnelly said. To boost the efficiency of workers
and planes,

carriers need to increase the number of hours their aircraft spend
aloft; expand workers'

responsibilities to ease the flow of passengers, baggage and planes;
and outsource

more maintenance work to third parties that can do it for less money.

(http://www.deseretnews.com/article/600103191/Increasing-productivity-a-nece
ssity-for-airlines.html)

5) On Sept 17, 2007 ECLAT folds into Oliver Wyman with Mr. Donnelly in tow
at the new

firm. Look who has popped back p on the TWU International radar screen.
From the

TWU negotiations update website.....John Donnelly, a financial
consultant with

Oliver Wyman located in Reston, Virginia, assisted all the Committees
providing

valuable "costing out" information that will support our bargaining
positions.


6) Checking the 2009 TWU LM-2 our expert economist was listed as "Director
of

Strategic Resources and paid $26,907. By the way he was featured in the
TWU express

in the JUL/AUG issue..so that is at least 6 months pay. Since we do not
know exactly

when he returned to the TWU International payroll, we will assume he
returned in

June and only worked half the year.

7) However in the 2010 TWU LM-2 Mr. Donnelly collected a cool $161,460,
still working as

the "Director if Strategic Resources" for the TWU.

The only strategy Mr. Donnelly has is to increase the TWU Internationals
dues revenue

while helping AA reduce its costs. Great! Another Wolf in Sheeps clothing!

What's it going to take.
 
ECLAT/Oliver Wyman has probably represented one side or the other in about half the labor negotiations done in the past ten years, with SH&E being involved in probably most of the rest.

At the end of the day there are less than a half dozen firms who understand airline economics enough to do labor relations consulting.

So bash these guys all you want for for making a living advising unions and companies on what is/isn't fair, but I doubt they're playing both sides of the fence on any given engagement. If they did, they'd never get hired again in the future, and they'd probably forfeit business from either side in future negotiations.

My company will regularly have two teams working on opposite sides of a given situation (e.g. one group advising travel agents how to get more money from airlines, and another group advising airlines how to stop paying travel agents). As long as there's a Chinese Wall between the respective teams and they're not conspiring or sharing confidential information, there's no harm, & no foul. The moment we breach those confidentiality agreements, we're liable for damages from both sides. It's no different with BCG, Bain, Accenture, Wyman, or SH&E.
 
eolesen said:
ECLAT/Oliver Wyman has probably represented one side or the other in about half the labor negotiations done in the past ten years, with SH&E being involved in probably most of the rest.

At the end of the day there are less than a half dozen firms who understand airline economics enough to do labor relations consulting.

So bash these guys all you want for for making a living advising unions and companies on what is/isn't fair, but I doubt they're playing both sides of the fence on any given engagement. If they did, they'd never get hired again in the future, and they'd probably forfeit business from either side in future negotiations.

My company will regularly have two teams working on opposite sides of a given situation (e.g. one group advising travel agents how to get more money from airlines, and another group advising airlines how to stop paying travel agents). As long as there's a Chinese Wall between the respective teams and they're not conspiring or sharing confidential information, there's no harm, & no foul. The moment we breach those confidentiality agreements, we're liable for damages from both sides. It's no different with BCG, Bain, Accenture, Wyman, or SH&E.
Click to expand...
On Jan 9 2005 This is what our economist said

"It's not just the wage that matters," Donnelly said.

To boost the efficiency of workers and planes, carriers need to increase the number of hours their aircraft spend aloft; expand workers' responsibilities to ease the flow of passengers, baggage and planes; and outsource more maintenance work to third parties that can do it for less money.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/600103191/Increasing-productivity-a-necessity-for-airlines.html

Makes me wonder if your on the take too. Mr. "E"
 
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