TWU negotiations.........what?

[Interested]

There was a letter out by some position-holder (management type I'd not heard of yet) within the past month saying the "enactment" of 7 day coverage with no discussion was not the way he was going to run a business. However - the way the letter read, his intent was to hold talks with the twu THEN put the 7 day schedule in place, at least that's what it sounded like, reading through the pompous BS of management-speak.

Very similar to the old west's way of doing things, it sounded like "Hold a 'fair trial', then have a hanging".

I do not recall what the management fellow's name or title was, but I do remember I'd not heard of him before.

Something about this sounds suspicious.

 

[Bob Owens]

I dont know whats stopping them from having 24/7 now. The only limitations that I know of, and admittedly I'm not that famliar with base operations, is the 1/7th rule. They can still have the operation going 24/7. They dont currently exploit that to the max so whats the prpblem? I think that they simply want more to hold over these guys heads. I can see it going like this; 'You guys aint producing enough, we may have to go with 24/7 coverage if yall dont pick up the pace. If you want to continue to get the Holidays off and spend weekends with your family you have to produce more".

 

[TWU informer]

There was a letter out by some position-holder (management type I'd not heard of yet) within the past month saying the "enactment" of 7 day coverage with no discussion was not the way he was going to run a business. However - the way the letter read, his intent was to hold talks with the twu THEN put the 7 day schedule in place, at least that's what it sounded like, reading through the pompous BS of management-speak.

Very similar to the old west's way of doing things, it sounded like "Hold a 'fair trial', then have a hanging".

I do not recall what the management fellow's name or title was, but I do remember I'd not heard of him before.

The letter was put out by William Collins.

This was due to the fact that some work group claimed their 4/10's work schedule were taken away without going through the PLT, ALT, JTL ect.

The purpose of the letter was to explain his desire that the working together process and data backing the decision be used.

Plain and simple, the working together process was used by the TWU to stop membership from losing 4/10's work schedules.

Now you know why the motion to table at the union meeting happened the way it did also.

The letter and , working together motion were linked together as a manipulation tool by the bed wetters.

Does anyone doubt that AA Management gains far more from "working together" than the Union Member does?

On another note:

Bob Owens, the mediator has scheduled Dec 14-17th for meetings/negotiations. What exactly is the agenda here?

 

[Interested]

I dont know whats stopping them from having 24/7 now. The only limitations that I know of, and admittedly I'm not that famliar with base operations, is the 1/7th rule. They can still have the operation going 24/7. They dont currently exploit that to the max so whats the prpblem? I think that they simply want more to hold over these guys heads. I can see it going like this; 'You guys aint producing enough, we may have to go with 24/7 coverage if yall dont pick up the pace. If you want to continue to get the Holidays off and spend weekends with your family you have to produce more".

From what I understand this is exactly what they told the guys working on the retro mod lines. Except that they are breaking one up, and forcing the other to 7 day coverage. Keep in mind that on the mod lines the weekend days count against the schedule. If they aren't working the weekends, then the work has to be made up during the week, and it isn't.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but rumor has it that the promise was made that the planes would go out on time without working the weekends. However, there is very little interest in working OT to keep the planes on schedule. And now the manager has put the hammer down and making the line go 7/24. Will that make the planes go out on time? I doubt it.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

<_< ------ You bring up a good point Bob. For years, because of our low pay, TWA was the teacher of AMT's for whole Industry. We'd train them to be good Mechanics, and by the time they became somewhat proficient, they'd move on to better paying jobs at rival Airlines! --------- I even had one "newbie", straight out of A&P school, tell me he was told, by the big boys, to go to work for TWA and get some "experience" for a year or two, than come back to them, and they'd hire him!------- If AA's not careful, you may end up the new TWA!!!

Difference being that with airlines and the seniority system it is bottom of the list if you move between carriers. Maybe that's not a big deal for guys with only a few years in, but the really experienced AMTs are going to stay put because of that system.

 

[TWU informer]

Bob Owens, the mediator has scheduled Dec 14-17th for meetings/negotiations. What exactly is on the agenda?

 

[MCI transplant]

Difference being that with airlines and the seniority system it is bottom of the list if you move between carriers. Maybe that's not a big deal for guys with only a few years in, but the really experienced AMTs are going to stay put because of that system.
[/quote <_< ]
Flyer, I think not! That was my point. The days of working for the "Glory of Aviation" is over, and has been for quit some time! The younger generation of Amt's are interested in one thing, and one thing only!------- That is, if they're going to put their name, and livelihood, on the line, their mantra is "Show me the money"!!!------ If that happens to be AA, so be it! But if not, experience has shown me that they have no problem at all with moving on! ------- In fact, that is becoming true with your more experienced AMT's also!!!

 

[lineguy43]

Flyer, I think not! That was my point. The days of working for the "Glory of Aviation" is over, and has been for quit some time! The younger generation of Amt's are interested in one thing, and one thing only!------- That is, if they're going to put their name, and livelihood, on the line, their mantra is "Show me the money"!!!------ If that happens to be AA, so be it! But if not, experience has shown me that they have no problem at all with moving on! ------- In fact, that is becoming true with your more experienced AMT's also!!!
[/quote]

You are right about that...I can't believe the amount of former DL mechanics who up and quit and came to FX as well as the DL tech ops trainers. Almost all of the tech trainers at FX are all former DL. Something tells me the Delta family is dysfunctional. Most had 15+ years and were willing to start over.

 

[Bob Owens]

Difference being that with airlines and the seniority system it is bottom of the list if you move between carriers. Maybe that's not a big deal for guys with only a few years in, but the really experienced AMTs are going to stay put because of that system.

Perhaps, but that doesnt mean you are going to get anything out of them. Remember what Gorden Bethune said about pissing off your mechanics, and they are getting pissed, not just at AA but everywhere else as well. That said I've seen quite a few of our most motivated workers simply thow in the towel and leave the industry over the last few years, I'm talking guys that had 20+ years. When you leave the industry and go to an industry where SS 9 to 5 is the norm seniority doesnt mattter.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob Owens, the mediator has scheduled Dec 14-17th for meetings/negotiations. What exactly is on the agenda?

The Contract.

 

[paul1]

The Contract.

LOL I'm just waitng to see how AA wants to chop up the pie!

Bob I'm trying to find out what the cost of our 2008 table postion was to the compamy. I asked my local exec. and they don't have a answer.

 

[TWU informer]

Are we going to get a deal? Or show them that 2/3rds rejection gaves us leverage and now we want three times as much?

 

[Birdman]

I see that Stores and M&R are both meeting with KAAne and compAAny on the same day's (Dec.14-17). I think we can write off any progress being made this year.

 

[Hopeful]

I see that Stores and M&R are both meeting with KAAne and compAAny on the same day's (Dec.14-17). I think we can write off any progress being made this year.

Just like the TWU had been preparing our new proposals, I am sure the company has been doing the same. I was also told by my local president that Kane does not wish to have the TWU negotiations continue well past the 3 year expiration date of 5/1.
We know now that the TWU has finally proposed a worthwhile contract. I can almost guarantee what the company's response will be. At least the bar is now raised substantially in the event we do get released from mediation.
I do feel however you may see somewhat of a positive shift on the company's side, but whether that shift is a major one remains to be seen.
As far as any progress this year....Dec14-17 IS the progress. Then they will reconvene after the holidays. I suspect we will see another TA to vote on in the neighborhood of March.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Just like the TWU had been preparing our new proposals, I am sure the company has been doing the same. I was also told by my local president that Kane does not wish to have the TWU negotiations continue well past the 3 year expiration date of 5/1.
We know now that the TWU has finally proposed a worthwhile contract. I can almost guarantee what the company's response will be. At least the bar is now raised substantially in the event we do get released from mediation.
I do feel however you may see somewhat of a positive shift on the company's side, but whether that shift is a major one remains to be seen.
As far as any progress this year....Dec14-17 IS the progress. Then they will reconvene after the holidays. I suspect we will see another TA to vote on in the neighborhood of March.

If someone is taking bets - mine is for a fairly good contract only to have it gutted in the ensuing bankruptcy filing that should have happened in 2003.