JimJimmyJim
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Totally agree with you.
TWU negotiations.........what?
- Thread starter Chuck Schalk
- Start date
767 mechanic
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- Aug 8, 2004
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This was an agreement between the neg committee members to be able to read the full text before they voted on whether or not to bring it back to the membership not the membership to have it for 30 days before a vote.
I wasnt there yet but thats what I was told they agreed to. It went the way of all the other promises that came from those guys on the "Road Trip". Three International appointments, Tulsa, ORD and DFW and all the promises to the members are forgotten. Concessionary contracts, votes on bullett points, roll call votes, secret negotiations, and Confidentiality Agreements all came into play. I was told that Steve Gilboy and Steve Luis pushed for the confidentiality letters at the last IEC meeting.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
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Hope they do a better job of holding to that promise than Congress and the White House has....
Just got back from vacation boys so I'm........
So I wonder when when this well, thought out T/A will be forwarded to us fleet. Surely it's signed, sealed and delivered.
probally your first day back at the mediation table
I'm surprised they just don't give it to you now
OP
Chuck Schalk
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- Nov 17, 2006
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The dangling Carrot has a poison pill in it. Anyone who eventually reads the full text and can vote for it must be careful what they wish for. The back end of the T/A and open ended language will hurt you, not right away but later on and then you will be told that collectively "you voted for it" that is behind us just like they said in 2003!
OP
Chuck Schalk
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American Airlines labor deals don't have all of TWU on board
12:00 AM CDT on Sunday, May 16, 2010
By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News
tmaxon@dallasnews.com
The news that American Airlines Inc. had agreed to new contracts with three union groups earlier this month was hailed as a very good sign for the carrier's rocky labor relations.
But the deals now face a vote by mechanics, clerks and others who have to decide whether what they're getting is worth what they're giving up.
The tentative agreements with the Transport Workers Union also offer a template for what American is seeking from all its unions – savings on benefits, greater productivity, fewer mainline employees and more outsourcing to its regional partner, American Eagle.
As such, the deals aren't being universally embraced, including by some of TWU's leaders at the local level.
"I think it's another five-year concessionary deal," Chuck Schalk, vice president of TWU's New York-based Local 562, said last week. "That's what I think."
Local 562 president Bob Owens said he hopes members don't approve the contracts. "I don't think they will if they're educated. I don't think the members in our local will approve it."
Larry Pike, president of Local 567 at American's Alliance maintenance base in Fort Worth, voted against accepting the tentative agreement when it was presented to the negotiating team, as did Owens. Pike said employees at the Alliance base appear heavily against the deals."They were hoping and praying that I didn't vote yes," Pike said. "They said, 'If you'd voted yes, you wouldn't be safe on this floor.' I had people saying that to me."
However, when the tentative deal covering mechanics and related employees was put to a vote, leaders of the Tulsa base – American's largest maintenance base – and the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport base decided to take the deal, as did leaders from a number of other locals.
The deals showed Wall Street that American could make progress on its labor issues. "This is a very positive first step, especially if the contracts are ratified," industry analyst Helane Becker wrote in a report last week.
Three tentative deals
The union and American have agreed to deals covering three work groups:
• Mechanics and related employees, covering about 11,500 employees.
• Stores employees, covering 1,282 employees. They make sure that the mechanics have the parts and supplies needed to repair and maintain aircraft.
• Technical specialists, covering about 90 employees. They help troubleshoot aircraft issues in the field and work with flight crews and mechanics, among other duties.
With the agreements in principle in hand, union and airline officials have begun the lengthy task of putting the deals into contract language in advance of sending it to members for a vote. The best guess from the union is that members will finish voting on the contracts in July or early August.
Will the first three agreements be approved?
John Conley, director of TWU's Air Transport Division, declined to guess last week. But he said it was important for the union to be able to take agreements to members so they can decide."As far as I'm concerned, we certainly want our members have their voices heard. Unless you can reach a tentative agreement, they don't have an opportunity to echo their views," he said.
The union had stated that it wanted to get back what it gave in deep concessions in 2003. TWU members, as well as the Association of Professional Flight Attendants and the Allied Pilots Association, had agreed then to substantial wage cuts, less favorable work rules and reductions in benefits to keep parent company AMR Corp. out of bankruptcy.
Conley said the deals worked out provide "partial recoveries" of what TWU gave up in many areas.When American began talks in 2007, it initially offered lump-sum payments to TWU members rather than increases in pay rates, so-called structural changes. The lump sums meant that employees would get the money once and their base salaries would be unchanged.
But the final agreements provided a 3 percent pay increase now and 1.5 percent increases in May 2011 and May 2012. Workers at the Fort Worth, Tulsa and Kansas City maintenance bases would also get lump sums equal to 6 percent of their annual salaries. Many line mechanics at American's airports would see other increases in premium pay for such things as weekend shifts and special skills.
"It is remarkable to me that AMR, American Airlines in particular, had taken a pretty adamant position about not negotiating structural increases, not negotiating basic enhancements in terms of compensation," Conley said. "Now [for the airline] to produce this, it's caught me a little bit by surprise."
The deal would also increase vacation time, provide two personal days off a year and add holidays, among other enhancements.
Avoiding pension costs
The contract achieved some of American's goals, things that it wants in its talks with flight attendants and pilots as well.
For example, new employees would no longer go into American's pension plan. Instead, they would go into 401(k) retirement plans.
With American required to contribute more than $500 million to its pension funds this year, it has been seeking ways to avoid pension costs for new employees.
New employees and existing workers under age 50 would have to pay part of the retiree medical premiums if they retire before Medicare kicks in at age 65. Currently, American pays the premiums for employees who have pre-funded their benefits.
American said each tentative agreement "addresses the interests of our TWU-represented employees and the company."The contracts with mechanics and the stores employees gives American "additional flexibility in its maintenance operation," and the contract with technical specialists provides "improved efficiency in the field work assignments this workgroup oversees," the airline said.
Owens, president of the New York local, said the contract would be in effect for too long, to May 2013.
"I understand that these are not the best of economic times. It's certainly not the time for us to lock into a concessionary deal," he said.
"I've been with the company for 25 years. I've seen it before where one day they're ready to file for bankruptcy and liquidate, and the following year they have a record year and they're posting huge profits," he said.One factor that TWU members must consider is what will happen if they turn down the contracts.
Steve Gukelberger, head of the stores negotiating committee, said he didn't like the deal the mechanics had negotiated. But he thought he had little choice after the leadership approved the first agreement.
"When we walked in, when we knew what they had voted on, the mediator basically sat there and told us that if you guys don't get to an agreement, you guys are going to go on ice for a while," Gukelberger said.
In other words, it might be eight or nine months before the National Mediation Board could focus again on the stores negotiations, he said.
One day later, the stores committee agreed to basically the same deal as the mechanics.
"We had the pressure on us," he said. "Plus, the big dogs had already bit the hook."
The three agreements signed May 5, 6 and 7 cover only about half the 25,000 TWU members at American. Talks go on, under mediation board assistance, with flight dispatchers, fleet service clerks, other ground workers, simulator technicians and others.
Conley said he hopes all negotiations can come to a conclusion quickly.
"I think it's everyone's best interest to get this in our rearview mirror, if we can," he said, "and then pay attention to the overall condition of the environment and rally around what's in the best interest long term for AMR.
Any comments please or do I have to state the obvious?
12:00 AM CDT on Sunday, May 16, 2010
By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News
tmaxon@dallasnews.com
The news that American Airlines Inc. had agreed to new contracts with three union groups earlier this month was hailed as a very good sign for the carrier's rocky labor relations.
But the deals now face a vote by mechanics, clerks and others who have to decide whether what they're getting is worth what they're giving up.
The tentative agreements with the Transport Workers Union also offer a template for what American is seeking from all its unions – savings on benefits, greater productivity, fewer mainline employees and more outsourcing to its regional partner, American Eagle.
As such, the deals aren't being universally embraced, including by some of TWU's leaders at the local level.
"I think it's another five-year concessionary deal," Chuck Schalk, vice president of TWU's New York-based Local 562, said last week. "That's what I think."
Local 562 president Bob Owens said he hopes members don't approve the contracts. "I don't think they will if they're educated. I don't think the members in our local will approve it."
Larry Pike, president of Local 567 at American's Alliance maintenance base in Fort Worth, voted against accepting the tentative agreement when it was presented to the negotiating team, as did Owens. Pike said employees at the Alliance base appear heavily against the deals."They were hoping and praying that I didn't vote yes," Pike said. "They said, 'If you'd voted yes, you wouldn't be safe on this floor.' I had people saying that to me."
However, when the tentative deal covering mechanics and related employees was put to a vote, leaders of the Tulsa base – American's largest maintenance base – and the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport base decided to take the deal, as did leaders from a number of other locals.
The deals showed Wall Street that American could make progress on its labor issues. "This is a very positive first step, especially if the contracts are ratified," industry analyst Helane Becker wrote in a report last week.
Three tentative deals
The union and American have agreed to deals covering three work groups:
• Mechanics and related employees, covering about 11,500 employees.
• Stores employees, covering 1,282 employees. They make sure that the mechanics have the parts and supplies needed to repair and maintain aircraft.
• Technical specialists, covering about 90 employees. They help troubleshoot aircraft issues in the field and work with flight crews and mechanics, among other duties.
With the agreements in principle in hand, union and airline officials have begun the lengthy task of putting the deals into contract language in advance of sending it to members for a vote. The best guess from the union is that members will finish voting on the contracts in July or early August.
Will the first three agreements be approved?
John Conley, director of TWU's Air Transport Division, declined to guess last week. But he said it was important for the union to be able to take agreements to members so they can decide."As far as I'm concerned, we certainly want our members have their voices heard. Unless you can reach a tentative agreement, they don't have an opportunity to echo their views," he said.
The union had stated that it wanted to get back what it gave in deep concessions in 2003. TWU members, as well as the Association of Professional Flight Attendants and the Allied Pilots Association, had agreed then to substantial wage cuts, less favorable work rules and reductions in benefits to keep parent company AMR Corp. out of bankruptcy.
Conley said the deals worked out provide "partial recoveries" of what TWU gave up in many areas.When American began talks in 2007, it initially offered lump-sum payments to TWU members rather than increases in pay rates, so-called structural changes. The lump sums meant that employees would get the money once and their base salaries would be unchanged.
But the final agreements provided a 3 percent pay increase now and 1.5 percent increases in May 2011 and May 2012. Workers at the Fort Worth, Tulsa and Kansas City maintenance bases would also get lump sums equal to 6 percent of their annual salaries. Many line mechanics at American's airports would see other increases in premium pay for such things as weekend shifts and special skills.
"It is remarkable to me that AMR, American Airlines in particular, had taken a pretty adamant position about not negotiating structural increases, not negotiating basic enhancements in terms of compensation," Conley said. "Now [for the airline] to produce this, it's caught me a little bit by surprise."
The deal would also increase vacation time, provide two personal days off a year and add holidays, among other enhancements.
Avoiding pension costs
The contract achieved some of American's goals, things that it wants in its talks with flight attendants and pilots as well.
For example, new employees would no longer go into American's pension plan. Instead, they would go into 401(k) retirement plans.
With American required to contribute more than $500 million to its pension funds this year, it has been seeking ways to avoid pension costs for new employees.
New employees and existing workers under age 50 would have to pay part of the retiree medical premiums if they retire before Medicare kicks in at age 65. Currently, American pays the premiums for employees who have pre-funded their benefits.
American said each tentative agreement "addresses the interests of our TWU-represented employees and the company."The contracts with mechanics and the stores employees gives American "additional flexibility in its maintenance operation," and the contract with technical specialists provides "improved efficiency in the field work assignments this workgroup oversees," the airline said.
Owens, president of the New York local, said the contract would be in effect for too long, to May 2013.
"I understand that these are not the best of economic times. It's certainly not the time for us to lock into a concessionary deal," he said.
"I've been with the company for 25 years. I've seen it before where one day they're ready to file for bankruptcy and liquidate, and the following year they have a record year and they're posting huge profits," he said.One factor that TWU members must consider is what will happen if they turn down the contracts.
Steve Gukelberger, head of the stores negotiating committee, said he didn't like the deal the mechanics had negotiated. But he thought he had little choice after the leadership approved the first agreement.
"When we walked in, when we knew what they had voted on, the mediator basically sat there and told us that if you guys don't get to an agreement, you guys are going to go on ice for a while," Gukelberger said.
In other words, it might be eight or nine months before the National Mediation Board could focus again on the stores negotiations, he said.
One day later, the stores committee agreed to basically the same deal as the mechanics.
"We had the pressure on us," he said. "Plus, the big dogs had already bit the hook."
The three agreements signed May 5, 6 and 7 cover only about half the 25,000 TWU members at American. Talks go on, under mediation board assistance, with flight dispatchers, fleet service clerks, other ground workers, simulator technicians and others.
Conley said he hopes all negotiations can come to a conclusion quickly.
"I think it's everyone's best interest to get this in our rearview mirror, if we can," he said, "and then pay attention to the overall condition of the environment and rally around what's in the best interest long term for AMR.
Any comments please or do I have to state the obvious?
Nice job Chuck and Bob. I'm glad you guys are at my home base. Makes me wish I was in maintenance! 
Good luck with the vote. Sounds like you're gonna need it with the TWU sheep you have running around in the center of the country.
I loved the response from the local Pres of AFW about how he wouldn't feel safe if he voted yes. Classic.
Good luck with the vote. Sounds like you're gonna need it with the TWU sheep you have running around in the center of the country.
I loved the response from the local Pres of AFW about how he wouldn't feel safe if he voted yes. Classic.
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
Just like OBAMACARE!
Of course Conley wants to put our jobs(lost due to the increase in ASMs) our benifits and our ability to support our families in the rear view mirror with a five year deal that will be coming at us for the next three years, his benifits and six figure salary are unaffected.
The ASMS would double, 6 to 10% in the language plus the exclusions which add another 2% minimum to the total, so a minimum of 12%. This will mean closure of many class II stations as Eagle will move in and AA will move out and consolidate into the Hubs. Now that SWA has moved into LGA I could even see LGA becoming all Eagle with some of the heavier high traffic trips moving over to JFK. They expect job losses for Title II and the Title I guys could fill vacancies in the Class I stations.
As Terry Maxon said;
Another concessionary deal, the International made sure that AA got everything they wanted and we screwed not only every other union on the property but everyone in the industry.
enough already
Veteran
- Jan 8, 2003
- 659
- 249
When I hired on in 1988, all I heard was bltching from all the "B" and "C" grades about the wage disparity and division that was created by the "A" grades voting to pass the concessionary 1983 contract. Fast forward to today POS TA and now those same guys are going to hypocritically screw the young guys and new hires. It's really pretty pathetic and sickening. :blink:
I don't believe the union culture has a chance anymore, no matter which one is in charge of all these greedy sheep. :angry:
I don't believe the union culture has a chance anymore, no matter which one is in charge of all these greedy sheep. :angry:
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
I watched the 1988 guy top out in a little over 5 years while the true B scalers took 9 1/2 years to reach top.
I watched the guys in 1995 take their early retirement and leave while creating the SRP pay rate.
I watched while those that were relegated to Junior Mechanic because of weight/thrust limits while other with less experience than them were topped out A&P's
I watched while the stock clerks received full sick pay while the AMT's lost 1/2 day pay per sick day.
The way I figure it when it comes to TWU negotiations, if your not the group getting screwed by this union, then you probably have the best deal your going to get. No need in sending them back and risking becoming the screwed group.
This union breeds and proudly displays greedy sheep as union men. We tried to defeat them some fought more than others. Bottom line, It is what it is and their isnt a damn thing voting no or signing cards is going to do about it.
L
Large Grey
Guest
The whole thing makes me SICK!
