TWU negotiations.........what?

[Hopeful]

TWU is now ready for negotiations as I saw the new slogan on a button today.

Something about

"Don't Mention
My Pension"

Now we are officially ready for section 6 openers.

Once the TWU has the slogan in place, the corporate lawyers better look out. The Toolbox negotiators are armed with the slogan and ready for battle..... er uh pity.

yea, tuff talk about the pension. I can see it now. the company negotiators telling the union lambs at the bargaining table that if you want to keep your pension, fine, that's all you get. BYE BYE

 

[Wretched Wrench]

yea, tuff talk about the pension. I can see it now. the company negotiators telling the union lambs at the bargaining table that if you want to keep your pension, fine, that's all you get. BYE BYE

Out of curiousity, I wonder which TWU higher ups get a TWU pension and which get only the AA pension and which get both.

Anybody know?

 

[Bob Owens]

You will go to any extent to try and argue that you were robbed by the company, but the fact remains that the TWU signed the restructuring agreement.

If you were robbed by anyone, it was by the officials you accuse of being corrupt, not the company.

Bribing union officials is a crime, or at least not reporting the monies paid for the bribe is. AA simply disregards the laws of the land and does as it pleases. Why wouldnt they? The punishment is light and the payoffs extreme. AA saved billions by kicking back $3 million a year to the TWU.

AA admitted that it pays the TWU $3.1 million a year yet they never filed these payments as required by law to the DOL. Why didnt they file? Because then they would have to explain the purpose of the payments thats why. Now we all know that AA monitors these boards and I have made this claim before yet AA hasnt said anything to me about these claims, if it wasnt true dont you think AA would have come down on me right away?Look at what they did to that pilot for a sticker!

So AA is just as guilty as the TWU with defrauding the workers at AA.

 

[Bob Owens]

TWU is now ready for negotiations as I saw the new slogan on a button today.

Something about

"Don't Mention
My Pension"

Now we are officially ready for section 6 openers.

Once the TWU has the slogan in place, the corporate lawyers better look out. The Toolbox negotiators are armed with the slogan and ready for battle..... er uh pity.

The Pension threat is a scam. If AA tried to get rid of the pension they would be screwing themselves. The fact is, with government assistance and acceptance they are slowly bankrupting the plan. The only way they could sell getting rid of the pension would be to agree to a 401K match.

In 2003 the company contributed only $1650 to the pension, in 2004 it increased to $1775, but in 2005 and 2006 it dropped to $1125. This is in part due to the fact that the government has increased the allowance to legally underfund our pensions.

Our pension is based on regular wages, OT is not calculated in. Thats why depite the fact that my income was $17000 higher in 2006 than it was in 2003 (in part due to OT) the amount that the company contributed to my pension decreased by $500.

If the company went with a 401k match, increased use of OT would increase the amount they had to contribute. So even if the company only had a 2% match they would have laid out more towards my pension last year than they did with the DB.($1400 vs $1125)

Let them make any threats they want, we do not have the pilots plan, we have a grossly(but legally) underfunded plan that will only grow to be a bigger liability in the future. More than likely it will fail to some extent, get your cash today.

If the union were to come back with an "intact" pension and nothing else they would be agreeing to another big paycut. The pension only costs the company less than 2% of our total compensation, in the meantime we are losing more than triple that percentage in inflation.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I won't argue the fact that it was a sweetheart contract, but it doesn't change the fact you need to be holding your union accountable for that.

How do you hold the twu accountable? Int. positions are NOT elected by the membership. Do we hope that all Int. officers pull a yingst/burchette and are replaced by people who listen to the membership?

 

[Bob Owens]

Out of curiousity, I wonder which TWU higher ups get a TWU pension and which get only the AA pension and which get both.

Anybody know?

All full time TWU Intnl employees are entitled to the very generous TWU Pension that would include everyone from Little, Yingst, Videtich right on down to the office workers, plus if they are still collecting a check from AA along with the TWU as Bobby Gless tesitfied to, a concurrent pension from AA. (Thats where the $3.1 million comes in, its my guess that all the guys from AA are getting checks from AA and the TWU, the checks from AA are not reported on the LM-2s so its likely that Little is getting a lot more than the LM-2 discloses. AA threatened to cut these payments out if the contract didnt go through-it was listed on the Vermont Pan. )

It perfectly legal to accrue two pensions at the same time, I checked.

Of all TWU members no one has as generous a plan as the International-thats where your dues go, and you can bet that its not underfunded.

The TWU pension uses a 2.5 multiplier vs our 1.666667 and it is based on their "best " year vs our ave of best 4 out of the last 10 and not only that but the TWU Intnl pension has a built in COLA that increases pension payment by 5% a year. Spouses are entitled to full pensions even after the primary dies as well.

 

[local 12 proud]

Its called the 'Good ole boy' Club, the lap dog is no different than its master!

 

[Bob Owens]

Its called the 'Good ole boy' Club, the lap dog is no different than its master!

It just shows how generous these guys are to themselves as they say that we have to be "realistic" with our demands. While we saw a 25% plus decrease in our total compensation all they lost was 17% of money they should not have been accepting in the first place.

 

[Boomer]

All full time TWU Intnl employees are entitled to the very generous TWU Pension that would include everyone from Little, Yingst, Videtich right on down to the office workers, plus if they are still collecting a check from AA along with the TWU as Bobby Gless tesitfied to, a concurrent pension from AA. (Thats where the $3.1 million comes in, its my guess that all the guys from AA are getting checks from AA and the TWU, the checks from AA are not reported on the LM-2s so its likely that Little is getting a lot more than the LM-2 discloses. AA threatened to cut these payments out if the contract didnt go through-it was listed on the Vermont Pan. )

It perfectly legal to accrue two pensions at the same time, I checked.

Of all TWU members no one has as generous a plan as the International-thats where your dues go, and you can bet that its not underfunded.

The TWU pension uses a 2.5 multiplier vs our 1.666667 and it is based on their "best " year vs our ave of best 4 out of the last 10 and not only that but the TWU Intnl pension has a built in COLA that increases pension payment by 5% a year. Spouses are entitled to full pensions even after the primary dies as well.

The biggest difference between the average TWU "represented" member at AA versus the TWU International is that our best consecutive 48 month period out of our final consecutive 120 months prior to separation will begin dropping off in about 2010.

American Airlines will receive a boost to their pension funding balances after the TWU employees begin to expire their last good 48 months of earnings over their last good 120 months of earnings.

The break between what we last earned in 2003 versus 2004 will force anyone remaining after 2010 to stay for an additional four years after the current negotiations are concluded just to achieve parity with the former agreement.

Gee, I'm so glad that American Airlines is watching out for us and obtained pension relief so that our soldiers could continue to get bullets and beans.

 

[Boomer]

While we are worrying about the upcoming negotiations: remeber that all is not settled fron 9-11.

US Carriers demand information from 9-11

"...Some relatives of the victims of September 11 have filed suit against the seven airlines - including AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and UAL Corp.'s United Airlines - seeking damages for personal injury and wrongful death..."

Airlines Seek FBI, CIA 9/11 Testimony
NewsMax.com Wires
Wednesday, Aug. 8, 2007
NEW YORK -- Airlines sued by victims of the September 11 attacks filed complaints with a U.S. court on Tuesday to compel testimony from FBI and CIA agents in a bid to make the federal government more culpable for not preventing the attacks.

In separate complaints filed in the U.S. Court for the Southern District of New York, seven U.S. airlines sought testimony from two members of a U.S. Central Intelligence Agency unit that investigated Osama Bin Laden and five current and former FBI agents who investigated al Qaeda.

Some relatives of the victims of September 11 have filed suit against the seven airlines - including AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and UAL Corp.'s United Airlines - seeking damages for personal injury and wrongful death.

The airlines said they needed the agents' testimony to prove their actions were reasonable.
In seeking the agents' testimony, the airlines argued that "the inability of the federal agencies to detect and stop the plot is a more significant causal circumstance of the terrorist attacks than any allegedly negligent conduct of the aviation parties."

Both U.S. agencies have refused to allow their agents to be questioned even though they have given public statements about their intelligence knowledge in the past, the airlines said.

The FBI and CIA had "far more intelligence information concerning the terrorist threat" than the airlines and knew that two of the suspected hijackers were in the United States, the air carriers argued in court papers.

Neither agency warned airlines that two of the September 11 hijackers, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, were potential threats nor did either agency place their names on any "no-fly" lists.
FBI special agent Richard Kolko and CIA spokesman George Little said they would not comment on ongoing litigation.

The relatives of the September 11 attack victims have also filed suit against: US Airways Group Inc, Delta Air Lines Inc, Continental Airlines, AirTran Airways Inc and Colgan Air as well as the planes' maker Boeing Co. They are also seeking recompense from the Massachusetts Port Authority, the Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority, and several security companies.

 

[eolesen]

How do you hold the twu accountable? Int. positions are NOT elected by the membership. Do we hope that all Int. officers pull a yingst/burchette and are replaced by people who listen to the membership?

Hey, believe it or not, I actually support y'all in your quest to replace them with AMFA, and have for at least five or six years. Some of you might recall that I agreed to moderate a debate between AMFA Dave and anyone willing to defend the TWU. Problem was that nobody from the TWU stepped up to the challenge. They were too busy complaining to HR.

I lost a lot of respect for AMFA since then, but it's clear that the TWU is doing nothing with your dues except perhaps buying KY by the case. You do deserve better than what you're getting for representation today.

Perhaps if a few of you stopped blaming TUL for all your problems, you might have a better chance at change. There are obviously people there who are fed up. Find someone with more credibility (and deeper pockets) than AMFA, and maybe that might actually happen someday.

 

[Bob Owens]

While we are worrying about the upcoming negotiations: remeber that all is not settled fron 9-11.

US Carriers demand information from 9-11

"...Some relatives of the victims of September 11 have filed suit against the seven airlines - including AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and UAL Corp.'s United Airlines - seeking damages for personal injury and wrongful death..."

Airlines Seek FBI, CIA 9/11 Testimony
NewsMax.com Wires
Wednesday, Aug. 8, 2007
NEW YORK -- Airlines sued by victims of the September 11 attacks filed complaints with a U.S. court on Tuesday to compel testimony from FBI and CIA agents in a bid to make the federal government more culpable for not preventing the attacks.

In separate complaints filed in the U.S. Court for the Southern District of New York, seven U.S. airlines sought testimony from two members of a U.S. Central Intelligence Agency unit that investigated Osama Bin Laden and five current and former FBI agents who investigated al Qaeda.

Some relatives of the victims of September 11 have filed suit against the seven airlines - including AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and UAL Corp.'s United Airlines - seeking damages for personal injury and wrongful death.

The airlines said they needed the agents' testimony to prove their actions were reasonable.
In seeking the agents' testimony, the airlines argued that "the inability of the federal agencies to detect and stop the plot is a more significant causal circumstance of the terrorist attacks than any allegedly negligent conduct of the aviation parties."

Both U.S. agencies have refused to allow their agents to be questioned even though they have given public statements about their intelligence knowledge in the past, the airlines said.

The FBI and CIA had "far more intelligence information concerning the terrorist threat" than the airlines and knew that two of the suspected hijackers were in the United States, the air carriers argued in court papers.

Neither agency warned airlines that two of the September 11 hijackers, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, were potential threats nor did either agency place their names on any "no-fly" lists.
FBI special agent Richard Kolko and CIA spokesman George Little said they would not comment on ongoing litigation.

The relatives of the September 11 attack victims have also filed suit against: US Airways Group Inc, Delta Air Lines Inc, Continental Airlines, AirTran Airways Inc and Colgan Air as well as the planes' maker Boeing Co. They are also seeking recompense from the Massachusetts Port Authority, the Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority, and several security companies.

Well all the FBI and CIA need to do is show Al Gores commision on airline safety recomendations and track the PAC monies from the airlines to show how the airlines were warned that a danger existed and they chose to do nothing to rectify the inadequacy of security, the government recommended changes , the airlines successfully fought implementation of those changes. If the airlines had allowed the recommedations to become law the costs would have affected all the airlines equally and at the time the industry was making record profits. The greed of the airlines led to the deaths of those on 9-11. Every airline that took part in those lobbying efforts should be named in the suit.

In future years when emotion is no longer a factor and people analize how 9-11 occured it will become clear how dangerous having government for sale, where entities that can not cast a ballott control the government, is not only to our freedom but to our very existence.

 

[eolesen]

Red herring. I spent a year and a half dealing with the Gore Commission. It had absolutely nothing to do with preventing hijackings. Their primary focus was to prevent bombs from getting onto aircraft, by both implementing 100% positive bag matching for all commercial and screening of checked luggage.

Doing 100% bag matching wouldn't have prevented 9/11 at all. In fact, six of the nineteen were flagged as selectees, which meant a bag search and having their bags pulled if they weren't onboard at departure time. Since they were onboard the aircraft, it didn't prevent anything.

 

[The Goose]

Red herring. I spent a year and a half dealing with the Gore Commission. It had absolutely nothing to do with preventing hijackings. Their primary focus was to prevent bombs from getting onto aircraft, by both implementing 100% positive bag matching for all commercial and screening of checked luggage.

Doing 100% bag matching wouldn't have prevented 9/11 at all. In fact, six of the nineteen were flagged as selectees, which meant a bag search and having their bags pulled if they weren't onboard at departure time. Since they were onboard the aircraft, it didn't prevent anything.

Very true - we could stand a few lessons from Israel about how to deal with suspect pax but the ACLU would no doubt get involved.

This PC garbage is going to get many more killed before it's done.

 

[The Goose]

Well all the FBI and CIA need to do is show Al Gores commision on airline safety recomendations and track the PAC monies from the airlines to show how the airlines were warned that a danger existed and they chose to do nothing to rectify the inadequacy of security, the government recommended changes , the airlines successfully fought implementation of those changes. If the airlines had allowed the recommedations to become law the costs would have affected all the airlines equally and at the time the industry was making record profits. The greed of the airlines led to the deaths of those on 9-11. Every airline that took part in those lobbying efforts should be named in the suit.

In future years when emotion is no longer a factor and people analize how 9-11 occured it will become clear how dangerous having government for sale, where entities that can not cast a ballott control the government, is not only to our freedom but to our very existence.

Normally, Bob, I consider you as full of crap as a Christmas goose, but in this instance, I agree with you. Just follow the money to find those really responsible and it'll lead, without a doubt, back to our own government's enabling, and in particular, Bush family friends; i. e., the Saudi Royal Family.