TWU-IAM Association thread
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Overspeed
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- Jun 27, 2011
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Agreed. Then tell the truth. Many of the items you point out would have been much closer to make all of our situation better had you and your other vote no coalition members not misinformed and in many cases outright lied about the 2010 TA. Now you have the balls the blame people that are gone, which you wanted, for the situation we are in. High cost of living I fully understand. I agree wages should not be the same across the board but relative to the area or region cost of living. But you convinced people to bet that there was more money to be had and that AA was bluffing about BK. even if we all know the BK was nothing more than manipulation of the law it was the way it worked. You misled the membership along with your friends that it was improbable that AA would file BK. You were all wrong and now we threw away incremental improvements to a crappy 2003 concessionary agreement and you are pissed at the people that said vote yes. You would almost every at 40 now under that TA. You screwed yourself so own it.
Chuck Schalk
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- Nov 17, 2006
- 1,042
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keep blaming me and the members for concessionary contracts it is getting old.Overspeed said:
Because TWU zealots have never seen a concessionary contract they didn't like. Strolling down memory lane in the 2010 threads reveals how divisive that contract was and is still no wonder it failed miserably, 65% to 35%. Your original premise that the TWU's concessionary contracts are killing the industry are certainly a testimony to our negotiations at WN. It seem's our management team has adopted the strategy of dragging out negotiations till the industry "catches up", despite astronomical profits.Chuck Schalk said:
Overspeed
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- Jun 27, 2011
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Chuck,
Apparently you do think it's all about you. Think brother. You are saying you are pissed about the mechanic's rate of pay and other major comp issues but you openly advocated for voting it down because that enabled us to pursue more. Were the pros and cons of that advice shared with the membership? No. It was damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. And we got torpedoed by AMR's that we were advised there was damn near zero chance of happening. And it happened. And we got screwed. Regardless who you chose to blame, Don V, Little, or Gless, the fact is that if you knew that the Int'l was against us, that the NMB would drag their feet indefinitely, that BK law is totally against labor and you still advised us in your videos to vote no then you are lost as a leader. Unless the point was to prove that labor won't accept anything less than full restoration of everything, but we will accept less than concessions by default. Great job brother. You won! You showed them and you prove it every time you look at your paycheck. The paycheck that is missing 100% SK pay, almost $40 and hour, and at least 8 VC days. You win Chuck, you win big tough guy.
Time to stop wallowing the past Chuck. Let's give the Association a shot since it's what we got like it or not. Your little jabs at how bad we got screwed are meaningless, we need to focus on how the Association is going to make a position better going forward. Bob's your buddy, help him by supporting him and the 591 board, get the membership active, and get organized. All of us!
Apparently you do think it's all about you. Think brother. You are saying you are pissed about the mechanic's rate of pay and other major comp issues but you openly advocated for voting it down because that enabled us to pursue more. Were the pros and cons of that advice shared with the membership? No. It was damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. And we got torpedoed by AMR's that we were advised there was damn near zero chance of happening. And it happened. And we got screwed. Regardless who you chose to blame, Don V, Little, or Gless, the fact is that if you knew that the Int'l was against us, that the NMB would drag their feet indefinitely, that BK law is totally against labor and you still advised us in your videos to vote no then you are lost as a leader. Unless the point was to prove that labor won't accept anything less than full restoration of everything, but we will accept less than concessions by default. Great job brother. You won! You showed them and you prove it every time you look at your paycheck. The paycheck that is missing 100% SK pay, almost $40 and hour, and at least 8 VC days. You win Chuck, you win big tough guy.
Time to stop wallowing the past Chuck. Let's give the Association a shot since it's what we got like it or not. Your little jabs at how bad we got screwed are meaningless, we need to focus on how the Association is going to make a position better going forward. Bob's your buddy, help him by supporting him and the 591 board, get the membership active, and get organized. All of us!
bob@las-AA
Veteran
I have said countless times that the economy is what drives what you bring home. It is not the greed of the Union or the Company. It is the overall performance of the combination of all the markets, not limited to the US markets, but the global in perspective. I have in my position, maybe the last copy of the contract from 2001, and to my understanding, it was the best one the members ever had. That contract was the direct result of a financial plan put into action back in Dec. 31, 1986. American enlisted the help of the newly formed advisory group, American Beacon Advisors[1]. Sitting at the helm is executive chairman and founder William Quinn. Joining American Airlines, Quinn entered Sky Chefs in 1974 and when on to be VP and Controller 1978. Later, becoming Assistant Treasurer for American from 1979 to 1986.
Because of the nature of the Airline business being cyclical, and fiercely completive. American wanted to insure its long survival when other was going insolvent. All within the recent shadow of deregulation. Making a investment policy change and matching assets and liabilities, all of this and upholding corporate finance requirements. Pension expenses were looked at as part of the requirements of corp. finance. With the growth that almost doubles in a span of 5 years since 1980. American had to fund the addition of growth without detriment to the business. American’s portfolio consisted of assets of $1.7 billion. Their payouts for pension benefits in time was a liability of $1.6 billion. American saw that the assets they held no longer providing the critical financial tasks it was created for. The bonds they once bought at a 15% interest yield at maturity back then in 1980, only yielded 9% at maturity in 1986. Couple that with the lower quality corporate BBB rated and the advent of junk bonds in the early 80s. With the introduction of what is called FAS 87[2]. It limits some of the accounting benefits (e.i gains) American received. In the end American realigned its assets to the volatility of interest rates to be covered when things were either up or down within comfort level. The hair cut the members received in 2003 was the assets not keeping up with the liabilities in short. I do think that AA once a year looks for signs that their portfolio need rebalancing.
In closing, I would like to tell this crack team of “JCBA” negotiators that they had better get a fast PhD in finance and economics. If the plan to just through it at the wall and see what sticks we lose. Because without knowing what they can ask for from a educated standpoint, they could leave behind a lot of money. Everything is connected. An optimized portfolio of assets is designed to grow. When one falls in value, another should rise in theory. But when the availability of bonds that are yielding 3%-4% compared to 30 years ago, what is a company to do when economic downturn forces them to chop heads and slash wages? The financial responsibly of and company is to be beholding to their stock holders and make a profit. The former echelon of the International, IAM and the NMB are all to aware of the implications to the economy and the tax payers is a large airline like any of the “final four” were to go insolvent. This is why, I believe the NBA certified the “Association.” The members would not look at this as a benefit just as a injustice because in the members eyes, there is only room for one union this premise.
The full article that inspired this is listed below.[3] So the moral of this story is, the stock market can, but it is much more difficult today to detect, give the heads up on the state of the economy, which in turn gives us a look in to the future of the things to come. I think the next reboot is within the next five years. So don’t squander your earnings on new cars, fancy jewelry, and that summer home in the Hamptons. This JCBA is the single most important thing that happens to the people that were hired in the years 22-27 ago.
https://www.americanbeaconfunds.com/about_us/ManagementTeam.aspx [1]
http://www.fasb.org/summary/stsum87.shtml [2]
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7qadFaPIn_uc2thc3o2azljWk0&authuser=0 [3]
Because of the nature of the Airline business being cyclical, and fiercely completive. American wanted to insure its long survival when other was going insolvent. All within the recent shadow of deregulation. Making a investment policy change and matching assets and liabilities, all of this and upholding corporate finance requirements. Pension expenses were looked at as part of the requirements of corp. finance. With the growth that almost doubles in a span of 5 years since 1980. American had to fund the addition of growth without detriment to the business. American’s portfolio consisted of assets of $1.7 billion. Their payouts for pension benefits in time was a liability of $1.6 billion. American saw that the assets they held no longer providing the critical financial tasks it was created for. The bonds they once bought at a 15% interest yield at maturity back then in 1980, only yielded 9% at maturity in 1986. Couple that with the lower quality corporate BBB rated and the advent of junk bonds in the early 80s. With the introduction of what is called FAS 87[2]. It limits some of the accounting benefits (e.i gains) American received. In the end American realigned its assets to the volatility of interest rates to be covered when things were either up or down within comfort level. The hair cut the members received in 2003 was the assets not keeping up with the liabilities in short. I do think that AA once a year looks for signs that their portfolio need rebalancing.
In closing, I would like to tell this crack team of “JCBA” negotiators that they had better get a fast PhD in finance and economics. If the plan to just through it at the wall and see what sticks we lose. Because without knowing what they can ask for from a educated standpoint, they could leave behind a lot of money. Everything is connected. An optimized portfolio of assets is designed to grow. When one falls in value, another should rise in theory. But when the availability of bonds that are yielding 3%-4% compared to 30 years ago, what is a company to do when economic downturn forces them to chop heads and slash wages? The financial responsibly of and company is to be beholding to their stock holders and make a profit. The former echelon of the International, IAM and the NMB are all to aware of the implications to the economy and the tax payers is a large airline like any of the “final four” were to go insolvent. This is why, I believe the NBA certified the “Association.” The members would not look at this as a benefit just as a injustice because in the members eyes, there is only room for one union this premise.
The full article that inspired this is listed below.[3] So the moral of this story is, the stock market can, but it is much more difficult today to detect, give the heads up on the state of the economy, which in turn gives us a look in to the future of the things to come. I think the next reboot is within the next five years. So don’t squander your earnings on new cars, fancy jewelry, and that summer home in the Hamptons. This JCBA is the single most important thing that happens to the people that were hired in the years 22-27 ago.
https://www.americanbeaconfunds.com/about_us/ManagementTeam.aspx [1]
http://www.fasb.org/summary/stsum87.shtml [2]
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7qadFaPIn_uc2thc3o2azljWk0&authuser=0 [3]
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,533
- 5,262
I can survive without it. It's Chuck and his friends in NY on here who are screaming the loudest that they need it. I support them on that one. Yes they NEED it!!!john john said:
Will the rest of the membership systemwide agree is the big question? "Hello Tulsa"
So to Chuck's point of the thread, we receive comfirmation as to the difficulties our brothers at WN are experiencing due to the inept representation that presently exists for Aircraft Mechanics here at AA yet the jackals on here contribute nothing other than troll to disrupt or lash out the personnal attacks. No credibility.Birdman said:
There's so much knowledge in these posts,
Chuck voted against pay raise in 2010, now complains that's tulsas fault.
TUL has voted in bad contract after bad contract and is now suffering the consequences
Jabord blames us for SWA contract difficulties, when SWA mechs are negotiating against their own contract sense they are at the top of the airline pay.
Bob@las has the smartest comment, a lot of what we get paid is based on the economy. We were the lowest for a long time to keep TULSA open and that's just a fact. Now that it's a shell of its former self we should do quite well.
The association is our union like it or not, and it MUST succeed, the TWU has out smarted every attempt to remove it and AMFA hasn't gotten it done.
As oldguy says the past is done, time to prepare the future.
I'm paraphrasing
Chuck voted against pay raise in 2010, now complains that's tulsas fault.
TUL has voted in bad contract after bad contract and is now suffering the consequences
Jabord blames us for SWA contract difficulties, when SWA mechs are negotiating against their own contract sense they are at the top of the airline pay.
Bob@las has the smartest comment, a lot of what we get paid is based on the economy. We were the lowest for a long time to keep TULSA open and that's just a fact. Now that it's a shell of its former self we should do quite well.
The association is our union like it or not, and it MUST succeed, the TWU has out smarted every attempt to remove it and AMFA hasn't gotten it done.
As oldguy says the past is done, time to prepare the future.
I'm paraphrasing
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