TWU Headcount Changes

[Realityck]

 
Back in 95, most of us were in our mid 30s.  Early retirement wasn't a real big concern for most of us at the time.  The TWU international used a 2 or 3 year old survey they took, as an excuse for the terrible structure of the contract.  By that time in 95, the industry was starting to turn the corner on profits, yet the TWU international was quoting the 3 year old survey, and the concerns of the then dated survey as presently relevant.  Let's not forget that the vote count back then was cause for concern as well.  That contract only passed by the slimest of margins as well.  The amount of ballots that were thrown out in Dallas alone was over 100.  A no vote, was considered a yes vote.  Remember, it's not really how many ballots that are turned in - it's who is counting the ballots.  The International and Ed Kosiatek were gonna do what they could - to get their retirement age buddies a 5 and 5 retirement deal at all costs.  The building cleaners got turned into SRPs, and the rest of us got hosed into a 6 year contract with a 1% raise each year.  All this, while the industry was making record profits.  Thanks again TWU.

 
 
1. The survey was sent out approximately 12 months prior to negotiations. The AA Presidents Council reviewed it in addition to the proposals received from their respective memberships. The Presidents Council subsequently voted on the proposals to be submitted to the company.
Neither an International Officer nor the AA System Coordinator voted on the proposals.
 
2. The Contract Ratification Ballots were mailed back to each Local to be verified and tabulated. The Local Presidents were required to submit a letter to the AA System Coordinator verifying the results. There were no disputes from any Local as to the veracity of the vote. A No vote was a No vote, not a Yes vote.
 
3. Since no SRP could be hired until the Tulsa AMT recall list was exhausted, the Early Retirement (5 and 5 issue) was American’s proposal, which would allow them to recall the more than 1,000 AMT’s then on layoff. All classification were eligible for the Early Out.
 
4. At that time, the top wages of Major Airline AMT’s were from $2.50 (UAL) to $7.00 (TWA) below American rates.
 
The 6 year Contract was not a 1% raise per year:
 
                        Percentage Base Pay increases
 
                  3.5% base pay increase 36 months after signing
 
                  3% base pay increase 54 months after signing
 
Side Letter: AMT pay scale percentage increase to equivalent Pilot Pay increase
 
                        Increased License Premium
 
                              $2.25 (2 lic)
 
                  Annual /Pensionable Profit Sharing Plan
 
                        3/15/96 – 2% minimum lump sum
                        3/15/97 – 2% minimum lump sum
                        3/15/98 – 2% minimum lump sum
 
Immediately following the brief APA Strike in 1997, a PEB No. 233 was convened
and after their review recommended the following.
 
                        APA Base Scale increases
 
                              8/31/97 – 3%
 
                              8/31/98 – 2%
 
                              8/31/99 – 1.5%
 
 
 (AA Pilots negotiated the same 6 year (4 year wage freeze) package as TWU. Pilots subsequently extended their contract by 1 year for an additional 2% wage increase in the 7th year. This was offered to TWU but the International advised against it since the economy might change (as it did) leading up to the 2001 negotiations)     

 

[Vortilon]

 
 
1. The survey was sent out approximately 12 months prior to negotiations. The AA Presidents Council reviewed it in addition to the proposals received from their respective memberships. The Presidents Council subsequently voted on the proposals to be submitted to the company.
Neither an International Officer nor the AA System Coordinator voted on the proposals.
 
2. The Contract Ratification Ballots were mailed back to each Local to be verified and tabulated. The Local Presidents were required to submit a letter to the AA System Coordinator verifying the results. There were no disputes from any Local as to the veracity of the vote. A No vote was a No vote, not a Yes vote.
 
3. Since no SRP could be hired until the Tulsa AMT recall list was exhausted, the Early Retirement (5 and 5 issue) was American’s proposal, which would allow them to recall the more than 1,000 AMT’s then on layoff. All classification were eligible for the Early Out.
 
4. At that time, the top wages of Major Airline AMT’s were from $2.50 (UAL) to $7.00 (TWA) below American rates.
 
The 6 year Contract was not a 1% raise per year:
 
                        Percentage Base Pay increases
 
                  3.5% base pay increase 36 months after signing
 
                  3% base pay increase 54 months after signing
 
Side Letter: AMT pay scale percentage increase to equivalent Pilot Pay increase
 
                        Increased License Premium
 
                              $2.25 (2 lic)
 
                  Annual /Pensionable Profit Sharing Plan
 
                        3/15/96 – 2% minimum lump sum
                        3/15/97 – 2% minimum lump sum
                        3/15/98 – 2% minimum lump sum
 
Immediately following the brief APA Strike in 1997, a PEB No. 233 was convened
and after their review recommended the following.
 
                        APA Base Scale increases
 
                              8/31/97 – 3%
 
                              8/31/98 – 2%
 
                              8/31/99 – 1.5%
 
 
 (AA Pilots negotiated the same 6 year (4 year wage freeze) package as TWU. Pilots subsequently extended their contract by 1 year for an additional 2% wage increase in the 7th year. This was offered to TWU but the International advised against it since the economy might change (as it did) leading up to the 2001 negotiations)     

Wow, still sticking to your guns.  I dug up the old TWU flier sent out to us.  DOS, a line AMT gets a wopping 25 cent ph raise.  Throw in the 2% lump sum - add about 50 cents ph.  Twelve months later - no pay raise - another 2% lump sum - again worth about 50 cents ph.  24 months later - no pay raise - another 2% lump sum - again, worth about 50 cents ph.  36 from DOS 3.5% pay raise - or about 78 cents ph - no lump sum.  48 months from DOS - NOTHING.  54 months from DOS add a 3% raise - worth about 68 cents ph. No Lump Sum.
 
Over a 5 year period, the average AA line AMT saw his pay increase by about $1.66ph.  That is about a 33 cent ph raise for each year.
The lump sums were temporary, random, and vanished.
The more I look at it, it's even worse than when I was just spitballing.
Yet, here you are defending it.
Have you no shame?
 
Lets not forget how any new hires, post DOS, were capped at 4 weeks vacation.  nice....

 

[MetalMover]

Wow, still sticking to your guns.  I dug up the old TWU flier sent out to us.  DOS, a line AMT gets a wopping 25 cent ph raise.  Throw in the 2% lump sum - add about 50 cents ph.  Twelve months later - no pay raise - another 2% lump sum - again worth about 50 cents ph.  24 months later - no pay raise - another 2% lump sum - again, worth about 50 cents ph.  36 from DOS 3.5% pay raise - or about 78 cents ph - no lump sum.  48 months from DOS - NOTHING.  54 months from DOS add a 3% raise - worth about 68 cents ph. No Lump Sum.
 
Over a 5 year period, the average AA line AMT saw his pay increase by about $1.66ph.  That is about a 33 cent ph raise for each year.
The lump sums were temporary, random, and vanished.
The more I look at it, it's even worse than when I was just spitballing.
Yet, here you are defending it.
Have you no shame?
 
Lets not forget how any new hires, post DOS, were capped at 4 weeks vacation.  nice....

This is the same TWU that has the support of some members.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Reality
Like I said toughguy, I lived it.  You got your facts out of wack somewhere.  Vortilon remembers it the way I do.  I can also promise you I, as a B scaler hired in 85, never progressed more than 1 step at a time until the contract extension topped everyone out.  If I was supposed to I need to get back pay I guess.  I topped out in 92 when they topped everyone out who was hired on or before 88.  Do the math, it took me 7 years to top out and there were 9 progressions (they bumped us from 7 to 9 when they bumped all the C scalers up too).  By your version I would have topped out in three years.  You obviously have the contracts mixed up.  The C scalers got their  bumps in the 92 extension and they needed to get them badly.  Those of us who actually lived this know what happened.  The C scalers got screwed worse than we did.  I missed being a C scaler by a very short margin as the C scale started in Sept. of 85 and I was always thankful for that.  This last post of yours is going to get a lot of laughs.  I think I'll print it out and show a bunch of guys that hired in when I did and see what we suppposedly got.  With your revisionist history you could have a great career in the political world.  You missed your calling.  Vortilon dug his old contract books out and I'll look for mine.  I might not have the one they gave me when I got hired in 85 but I do have the others.  But believe me the lump sum debacle was all Fleet Service's Idea.  They had the numbers back then and there were no seperate negotiations so they dictated the contracts.  We had to fight to get seperate negotiations and the TWU international is still punishing us for that.  Interestingly enough though, they pulled the lump sum payment in lieu of a raise out of mothballs for the 2010 TA that thankfully was shot down.  I would like to know when you hired on at AA.  I got a feeling you weren't here when this stuff was happening.  By the way, do you think the government staged the Apollo moon landing too?

 

[Realityck]

Reality
Like I said toughguy, I lived it.  You got your facts out of wack somewhere.  Vortilon remembers it the way I do.  I can also promise you I, as a B scaler hired in 85, never progressed more than 1 step at a time until the contract extension topped everyone out.  If I was supposed to I need to get back pay I guess.  I topped out in 92 when they topped everyone out who was hired on or before 88.  Do the math, it took me 7 years to top out and there were 9 progressions (they bumped us from 7 to 9 when they bumped all the C scalers up too).  By your version I would have topped out in three years.  You obviously have the contracts mixed up.  The C scalers got their  bumps in the 92 extension and they needed to get them badly.  Those of us who actually lived this know what happened.  The C scalers got screwed worse than we did.  I missed being a C scaler by a very short margin as the C scale started in Sept. of 85 and I was always thankful for that.  This last post of yours is going to get a lot of laughs.  I think I'll print it out and show a bunch of guys that hired in when I did and see what we suppposedly got.  With your revisionist history you could have a great career in the political world.  You missed your calling.  Vortilon dug his old contract books out and I'll look for mine.  I might not have the one they gave me when I got hired in 85 but I do have the others.  But believe me the lump sum debacle was all Fleet Service's Idea.  They had the numbers back then and there were no seperate negotiations so they dictated the contracts.  We had to fight to get seperate negotiations and the TWU international is still punishing us for that.  Interestingly enough though, they pulled the lump sum payment in lieu of a raise out of mothballs for the 2010 TA that thankfully was shot down.  I would like to know when you hired on at AA.  I got a feeling you weren't here when this stuff was happening.  By the way, do you think the government staged the Apollo moon landing too?

 
 
 
I can’t imagine how you missed the 2 step contractual jump in 1987 but maybe you
were not as sharp then as you are now?
 
Rather than continue debating with you I’ll end this by saying what Herb Kelleher said when dealing with someone he didn’t believe:  “Liar, Liar, your pants are on fire”. If you can’t understand the context ask one of your SWA friends.

 

[Slopoke]

 
 
 
I can’t imagine how you missed the 2 step contractual jump in 1987 but maybe you
were not as sharp then as you are now?
 
 

 
 
I was hired on in 86 and I can't remember a two step jump.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 
 
I was hired on in 86 and I can't remember a two step jump.

Neither can anyone else who was here then.  Notice the man won't say when he hired on.  I suspect he wasn't here then.  I'll be sure to ask everyone if they remember the two step jump.  I'm guessing nobody does.  But people who weren't here consider themselves experts.  I still think he is looking at the 89 contract where they shortened our progression from 9 years to 7.  But don't tell Reality he's having too much fun.

 

[Vortilon]

 
 
I was hired on in 86 and I can't remember a two step jump.

Yeah, I hired in the first part of 86 as well, and I didnt get any pay increase either.  I still have all my check stubs from those years as evidence.  So, there is that.

 

[Realityck]

Reality
Like I said toughguy, I lived it.  You got your facts out of wack somewhere.  Vortilon remembers it the way I do.  I can also promise you I, as a B scaler hired in 85, never progressed more than 1 step at a time until the contract extension topped everyone out.  If I was supposed to I need to get back pay I guess.  I topped out in 92 when they topped everyone out who was hired on or before 88.  Do the math, it took me 7 years to top out and there were 9 progressions (they bumped us from 7 to 9 when they bumped all the C scalers up too).  By your version I would have topped out in three years.  You obviously have the contracts mixed up.  The C scalers got their  bumps in the 92 extension and they needed to get them badly.  Those of us who actually lived this know what happened.  The C scalers got screwed worse than we did.  I missed being a C scaler by a very short margin as the C scale started in Sept. of 85 and I was always thankful for that.  This last post of yours is going to get a lot of laughs.  I think I'll print it out and show a bunch of guys that hired in when I did and see what we suppposedly got.  With your revisionist history you could have a great career in the political world.  You missed your calling.  Vortilon dug his old contract books out and I'll look for mine.  I might not have the one they gave me when I got hired in 85 but I do have the others.  But believe me the lump sum debacle was all Fleet Service's Idea.  They had the numbers back then and there were no seperate negotiations so they dictated the contracts.  We had to fight to get seperate negotiations and the TWU international is still punishing us for that.  Interestingly enough though, they pulled the lump sum payment in lieu of a raise out of mothballs for the 2010 TA that thankfully was shot down.  I would like to know when you hired on at AA.  I got a feeling you weren't here when this stuff was happening.  By the way, do you think the government staged the Apollo moon landing too?

 
 
In the 1985 Contract, check page 155 when you find yours (Letter is in the back of the contract).
It was hard to scan from my old contract book but I did the best I could:
 
 
                                           155
 
                      AMERICAN  AIRLINES,  INC.
                              P. O.  Box  619616
                  DFW  Airport,  Texas   75261-9616  
 
                                                           August 1, 1985
 
Mr. John J. Kerrigan
International Vice President
Transport Workers Union
  of America, AFL-CIO
1980 Broadway
New York, New York 10023
 
Dear Mr. Kerrigan:
 
       This  will  confirm  our  discussions  leading  to
the signing of the  Agreement dated July 31. 1985.
Mechanic employees (Mechanic-Line/Overhaul and
Mechanic-Plant  Maintenance)  employed  between   
February 11, 1983  and  September I, 1985  will  be
indexed on the pay step scale as follows:
 
                 On the dates listed below, employees in
          the above classifications will be advanced in
          their  respective  progression  scale.   This
          advancement shall  not  affect  their  normal
          progression based  on  length  of  service in
          each  step  but  shall be in addition to  such
          length of service progression.
 
         September 7, 1985 - advance two (2) steps
         September 6, 1986 - advance one (l) step
         September 5, 1987 - advance two (2) steps 
         September 3, 1988 - advance one (1) step
 
         Employees   in   the   classification  of  Junior
Mechanic on September 1, 1985 and who were employ-
ed   on   or  after  February  11, 1983   but   prior   to
September 1, 1985  will  upon their  promotion  to  the
Mechanic   classification   thereafter   advance   pay
steps on the dates specified above.
 
                                               Very truly yours,
 
                                               C. A. Pasciuto
                                               Vice President
                                               Employee Relations

 

[iluvaa]

I hired on in 97 what's that make me a D scaler lol. I had to be an SRP for a year before I could be a junior mechanic. Doing the exact same work as a senior mechanic for 10 an hour. For 2 years then poof the company made us all mechanics. Then 03 RIFed back to SRP (OSM) losing 5 an hour for 7.5 years then finally in 2010 I was a mechanic again so it took me over 13 years to get to top of scale.

 

[MetalMover]

I hired on in 97 what's that make me a D scaler lol. I had to be an SRP for a year before I could be a junior mechanic. Doing the exact same work as a senior mechanic for 10 an hour. For 2 years then poof the company made us all mechanics. Then 03 RIFed back to SRP (OSM) losing 5 an hour for 7.5 years then finally in 2010 I was a mechanic again so it took me over 13 years to get to top of scale.

Gee, I wonder which union agreed to that.......hmmmmmmmmm.......

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I hired on in 97 what's that make me a D scaler lol. I had to be an SRP for a year before I could be a junior mechanic. Doing the exact same work as a senior mechanic for 10 an hour. For 2 years then poof the company made us all mechanics. Then 03 RIFed back to SRP (OSM) losing 5 an hour for 7.5 years then finally in 2010 I was a mechanic again so it took me over 13 years to get to top of scale.

Actually we did call it the D scale and it drove the union officers nuts. 

 

[Overspeed]

realitycheck,
You are confusing them with facts

 

[Realityck]

realitycheck,
You are confusing them with facts

 
 
             It always does!

 

[Slopoke]

Since I was hired on in 86, the pay progression did not apply to me. That's probably why I did not remember it.