TWU Headcount Changes
- Thread starter Rogallo
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Realityck said:
Back in 95, most of us were in our mid 30s. Early retirement wasn't a real big concern for most of us at the time. The TWU international used a 2 or 3 year old survey they took, as an excuse for the terrible structure of the contract. By that time in 95, the industry was starting to turn the corner on profits, yet the TWU international was quoting the 3 year old survey, and the concerns of the then dated survey as presently relevant. Let's not forget that the vote count back then was cause for concern as well. That contract only passed by the slimest of margins as well. The amount of ballots that were thrown out in Dallas alone was over 100. A no vote, was considered a yes vote. Remember, it's not really how many ballots that are turned in - it's who is counting the ballots. The International and Ed Kosiatek were gonna do what they could - to get their retirement age buddies a 5 and 5 retirement deal at all costs. The building cleaners got turned into SRPs, and the rest of us got hosed into a 6 year contract with a 1% raise each year. All this, while the industry was making record profits. Thanks again TWU.
Overspeed
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- Jun 27, 2011
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Vortillon,
I believe in '92 we just got the contract extension. That was three years before the 95 negotiations and I don't remember getting any survey then. Most of us were happy to be off the B scale at that time. The topped out mechanics were upset because in their mind they should have received more to their top rate.
The '95 agreement was influenced by five years of losses and layoffs. Many of us were concerned about job security and yes the old timers were ready to leave. The survey came out in 1994 I believe coming on the heels of a third consecutive RIF out of TUL with all the DC10 groundings.
If you still have the crystal ball you had back in 1995, you should have used on more potentially profitable ideas like buying Apple stock. Or maybe you could give it to GP so he could get us a good contract.
I believe in '92 we just got the contract extension. That was three years before the 95 negotiations and I don't remember getting any survey then. Most of us were happy to be off the B scale at that time. The topped out mechanics were upset because in their mind they should have received more to their top rate.
The '95 agreement was influenced by five years of losses and layoffs. Many of us were concerned about job security and yes the old timers were ready to leave. The survey came out in 1994 I believe coming on the heels of a third consecutive RIF out of TUL with all the DC10 groundings.
If you still have the crystal ball you had back in 1995, you should have used on more potentially profitable ideas like buying Apple stock. Or maybe you could give it to GP so he could get us a good contract.
scorpion 2
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- May 11, 2012
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Overspeed said:
Oh. I distinctly remember the "92" contract extension that brought C & B scalers up to parity with A scalers. Shortly after that, there was some layoffs around the system. Guys were displaced etc.. It wasn't long after that - that the TWU did the survey. Industry in turmoil, layoffs, bumping, and the like. Well, you can imagine what the priorities were on the survey. Two years go by, industry has turned the corner - company is about to set record profits for years. Yet there was the TWU international citing a then outdated survey. "Survey says you guys feel that job security is the number one priority." "Look what we did, a six year deal giving you every bit of a 1% raise every year - for the next six years." Hope that walk down memory lane helps clear the cobwebs out of your memory. I called Ed Kosiatec from the breakroom phone, and told him what I thought about that POS contract. Yeah, not a chance I'll ever forget that whole TWU failure.
OldGuy@AA said:
(If you were a B scaler, had 9 yrs & 1 day of AA service, and were age 45 by Jan 1, 1996, you were considered eligible for the 5 + 5 Early Out Pkg)
I found my old contracts and though I had to estimate your actual hire-in date, here’s what I found:
Since you said you were a “B” scale AMT who started in 1985 I checked the 85, 89, and 91 contracts to see how you might have been affected on the pay schedule.
Additional negotiated pay step adjustments for “B” scale AMT’s
1985 Contract 1985 - 2 step pay jump
1986 - 1 step pay jump
1987 – 2 step pay jump
1988 – 1 step pay jump
1989 Contract 10 yr “B” scale max to top out
“B” scale AMT’s jumped from 1 to 7 steps (page /175-176)
1991 Contract 5 yr “B” scale max to top out (page 118)
For your information, during this period of time the APA Pilots had a Seham recommended “B” scale as well, but the “B” scale Pilot wages never merged with the “A” scale Pilots, nor did they earn the same Pension Credit. The UAL Pilots struck in 1985 because their management tried to impose the same non-merging Pilot “B” scale on them that the AA Pilots had. The UAL Pilots won on that issue.
Also, in the 1995 Contract all incumbent employees became protected in classification, pay, and status.
Vortilon said:
1. The survey was sent out approximately 12 months prior to negotiations. The AA President’s Council in addition to the proposals they received from their respective memberships reviewed it. The Presidents’ Council subsequently voted on the proposals to be submitted to the company. No International Officer nor the AA System Coordinator voted on the proposals.
2. The Contract Ratification Ballots were mailed back to each Local to be verified and tabulated. The Local Presidents were required to submit a letter to the AA System Coordinator verifying the results. There were no disputes from any Local as to the veracity of the vote. A No vote was a No vote, not a Yes vote.
3. Since no SRP could be hired until the Tulsa AMT recall list was exhausted, the Early Retirement (5 and 5 issue) was American’s proposal which would allow them to recall the more than 1,000 AMT’s then on layoff in Tulsa. All classifications were eligible for the Early Out.
4. At that time, the top wages of Major Airline AMT’s were from $2.50 (UAL) to $7.00 (TWA) below American rates
The 6 year Contract was not a 1% raise per year:
Annual / Pensionable Profit Sharing Plan
3/15/95 - 2% minimum lump sum
3/15/97 - 2% minimum lump sum
3/15/98 - 2% minimum lump sum
Percentage Base Pay Increases
3.5% base pay increase 36 months after signing
3% base pay increase 54 months after signing
Increased License Premium
$2.25 (2 lic)
Side Letter: AMT pay scale percentage increase to equivalent Pilot pay
Increase prior to 9/1/97
Immediately following the brief APA Strike in 1997, a PEB No. 233 was convened and after their review recommended the following:
APA Base Pay Scale increases:
8/31/97 – 3%
8/31/98 – 2%
8/31/99 – 1.5%
(AA Pilots negotiated same 6 year (4 year wage freeze) package as TWU. Pilots subsequently extended their contract by 1 year for an additional 2% wage increase in the 7th year. This was offered to TWU but the International advised against it since economy might change (as it did) leading up to the 2001 negotiations).
Wow, still sticking to your guns. I dug up the old TWU flier sent out to us. DOS, a line AMT gets a wopping 25 cent ph raise. Throw in the 2% lump sum - add about 50 cents ph. Twelve months later - no pay raise - another 2% lump sum - again worth about 50 cents ph. 24 months later - no pay raise - another 2% lump sum - again, worth about 50 cents ph. 36 from DOS 3.5% pay raise - or about 78 cents ph - no lump sum. 48 months from DOS - NOTHING. 54 months from DOS add a 3% raise - worth about 68 cents ph. No Lump Sum.Realityck said:
Over a 5 year period, the average AA line AMT saw his pay increase by about $1.66ph. That is about a 33 cent ph raise for each year.
The lump sums were temporary, random, and vanished.
The more I look at it, it's even worse than when I was just spitballing.
Yet, here you are defending it.
Have you no shame?
Lets not forget how any new hires, post DOS, were capped at 4 weeks vacation. nice....
Reality
If you didn't live it don't pretend to know what it was like. A scalers made over $20 per hour and had a 4 yr progression when they hired in. Starting in 83 we got hired at $10 per hour with a 9 yr progression. Yeah we got a one step bump in 86 and a "Union negotiated wage increase" of $500 lump sum (before taxes) that was forced on us by Fleet Service who refused a % raise since AMTs would get more raise then they did since we made more money (Topped out). I made much less than a topped out FSC then so it all seemed really stupid to me but that is what happened. Like I said I lived it. You didn't. I got the check from my supervisor with $500 before taxes and you didn't. But go ahead and try to make me out to be a bad person. I actually had it good compared to the C scalers who had a 12 year progression with no insurance for 6 months until their probation was over. I (and all other B scalers) had a 3 month probation. You did leave a lot of stuff out of your post but if you didn't live it you don't know squat. Keep posting your crap though. All of us B scalers are very amused by it. Typical white washing of a really lousy deal. You need to be in the international where you can pi$$ on people's back and tell them it's raining. Really. You need to change your name to "My version of reality". Believe me all my B scaler friends are reading this stuff from you and are concerned for you.
If you didn't live it don't pretend to know what it was like. A scalers made over $20 per hour and had a 4 yr progression when they hired in. Starting in 83 we got hired at $10 per hour with a 9 yr progression. Yeah we got a one step bump in 86 and a "Union negotiated wage increase" of $500 lump sum (before taxes) that was forced on us by Fleet Service who refused a % raise since AMTs would get more raise then they did since we made more money (Topped out). I made much less than a topped out FSC then so it all seemed really stupid to me but that is what happened. Like I said I lived it. You didn't. I got the check from my supervisor with $500 before taxes and you didn't. But go ahead and try to make me out to be a bad person. I actually had it good compared to the C scalers who had a 12 year progression with no insurance for 6 months until their probation was over. I (and all other B scalers) had a 3 month probation. You did leave a lot of stuff out of your post but if you didn't live it you don't know squat. Keep posting your crap though. All of us B scalers are very amused by it. Typical white washing of a really lousy deal. You need to be in the international where you can pi$$ on people's back and tell them it's raining. Really. You need to change your name to "My version of reality". Believe me all my B scaler friends are reading this stuff from you and are concerned for you.
OldGuy@AA said:
You gave your version but you overlooked/misstated a few things
For example: “Yeah we got a one step bump in 86”
Additional negotiated pay step adjustments for “B” scale AMT’s
1985 Contract 1985 - 2 step pay jump
1986 - 1 step pay jump
1987 – 2 step pay jump
1988 – 1 step pay jump
1989 Contract “B” scale jumped from 1 to 7 steps (page 175-176)
“Fleet Service who refused a % raise since AMTs would get more raise then they did since we made more money”
Never happened – Total Fabrication
BTW, I didn’t try to make you out as a bad person and I believe we can agree to disagree, but I prefer to state facts that can be documented.
For example: I agree with you that those were difficult times, but you left out a few things that had a major impact on those negotiations.
The B-Scale Plague
American Airlines adopted the benchmark B-scale in 1983, permanently reducing pay for newly hired pilots by 50 percent. In fact, under the AA system—negotiated while the Seham firm sat on the labor side of the table—pay rates and pensions for new employees would never merge with those of then-current employees.
Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.
“As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in the earliest realization
Although B-scales were not a new concept, their initial format was unique to the airline industry. Following American’s lead, other airlines began to demand similar packages—forcing the entire airline labor movement into a new era of concessions. Good for management; bad for pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, and all of the airline industry’s workers.
The TWU did not approve nor recommend the 1983 Contract
We were on the countdown and management gave the Negotiating Committee a copy of their *yellow dog contract & told the Negotiating Committee if they didn’t recommend the offer on the table, it would be implemented at midnight. Int’l VP John Kerrigan told the company
to stick it, and the offer went out with no approval or recommendation.
*I can provide you a copy of the yellow dog contract
(It passed by a +70% vote)
UNION OKS AMERICAN AIRLINES PACT
Author: United Press International
Transportation Workers Union officials said yesterday that union members have ratified a new contract with American Airlines,
averting a strike that had been scheduled for 12:01 a.m. today.
TWU leaders had recommended that the contract be rejected.
The airline set the strike deadline on the pact after the union backed out of a strike three weeks ago and submitted the contract to the membership.
American had said it would use nonunion personnel to run the airline if the TWU 's 10,000 ground workers struck. It also said if the contract was not ratified, it would begin laying off TWU workers.
The airline 's offer includes 21 percent pay raises over the three-year life of the contract; a clause the airline calls a "lifetime" job guarantee, and incentives for early retirement at age 55.
But it also grants the airline the right to ask TWU employees to do work not covered in their job descriptions; establishes a separate wage structure for new employees up to 27 percent below union scale, and allows the airline to contract for building maintainance work outside the union.
It was these clauses that prompted TWU officials to recommend that the contract be rejected.
Edition: FINAL
Section: BUSINESS
Dateline: DALLAS
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