TWU Headcount Changes

[texasreb]

JFK and LGA too.

Looks like DFW has taken transfers off of the transfer list today.

 

[dfw gen]

Yep international cut another deal.

 

[Realityck]

I am amused at how you are trying to make a pile of horse crap (The TWU contracts from 80s) look like gold.  If you were here you know the TWU did not do anything for anyone but the A scalers.  If you say otherwise you are out to lunch and just an appologist for the short comings of the TWU. The B scale came in when they offered the A scalers a lump sum retirement.   89 we took concessions (lost our free medical) while Crandall made record profits.  Now I guess you'll deny this stuff too.  But this still has nothing to do with any headcount changes. 

 
 
I never said the 80’s contracts were great, and you can’t challenge my responses so you use the old AMFA technique of trying to divert attention from the truth. 
 
“The B scale came in when they offered the A scalers a lump sum retirement”
 
Fact:
 
The TWU “A” scalers were never offered the lump sum retirement in negotiations. You don’t see it in the 83 contract or any subsequent contracts.
 
Also, the 83 TWU “B” scale contract was not recommended by the TWU.
 
                                                    UNION OKS AMERICAN AIRLINES PACT
 
Author: United Press International
 
Transportation Workers Union officials said yesterday that union members have ratified a new contract with American Airlines, averting a strike that had been scheduled for 12:01 a.m. today. 
 
                                         TWU leaders had recommended that the contract be rejected
 
The airline set the strike deadline on the pact after the union backed out of a strike three weeks ago and submitted the contract to the membership. 
 
American had said it would use nonunion personnel to run the airline if the TWU's 10,000 ground workers struck. It also said if the contract was not ratified, it would begin laying off TWU workers. 
 
The airline 's offer includes 21 percent pay raises over the three-year life of the contract; a clause the airline calls a "lifetime" job guarantee, and incentives for early retirement at age 55. 
 
But it also grants the airline the right to ask TWU employees to do work not covered in their job descriptions; establishes a separate wage structure for new employees up to 27 percent below union scale, and allows the airline to contract for building maintenance work outside the union. 
 
It was these clauses that prompted TWU officials to recommend that the contract be rejected.
 
Edition: FINAL
Section: BUSINESS
Dateline: DALLAS
 
 
            As a point of interest, the APA Pilots whose “B” scale language was negotiated with Seham’s assistance, was also more onerous since their wages not only never merged with their “A” scale Pilots, they also received lower Pension Benefits. The APA attempted to dump their “B” scale language during their 1997 PEB Hearings, but didn’t succeed.
 
Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.
 
“As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in the earliest realization of the two-tier system. APA was not faced with an insolvent or failing carrier; it was, however, forced to deal with an economic environment that had changed dramatically because of the effects of deregulation and was, by virtue of its independence, mandated to reach an agreement consistent with the needs and objectives of its constituency”. — Martin C. Seham
 
                  “89 we took concessions (lost our free medical)”
 
In 1989 the TWU and APFA agreed to retiree medical prefunding, but the APA had a dispute over their Medical Plan and filed an Interest Arbitration Grievance. The Arbitrator in that case ruled they were not required to prefund. 1991 NMB Award, Arbitrator Thomas F. Carey.
 
As a consequence of the results of the APA Grievance, the TWU negotiated the company match language which provided you (if you were a prefunding participant) with your total contribution + interest should the Retiree Medical Plan be terminated, as well as the Company’s matching funds. The company match is currently held up because of the Bankruptcy Courts section 1114 provision. I believe, however, that participating members are entitled to that as well.

 

[Realityck]

Yep international cut another deal.

 
Why don't you ask your Local President if this is a contract violation? If he says it is, ask him if he's challenged it ?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 
Why don't you ask your Local President if this is a contract violation? If he says it is, ask him if he's challenged it ?

 

 
 
I never said the 80’s contracts were great, and you can’t challenge my responses so you use the old AMFA technique of trying to divert attention from the truth. 
 
“The B scale came in when they offered the A scalers a lump sum retirement”
 
Fact:
 
The TWU “A” scalers were never offered the lump sum retirement in negotiations. You don’t see it in the 83 contract or any subsequent contracts.
 
Also, the 83 TWU “B” scale contract was not recommended by the TWU.
 
                                                    UNION OKS AMERICAN AIRLINES PACT
 
Author: United Press International
 
Transportation Workers Union officials said yesterday that union members have ratified a new contract with American Airlines, averting a strike that had been scheduled for 12:01 a.m. today. 
 
                                         TWU leaders had recommended that the contract be rejected
 
The airline set the strike deadline on the pact after the union backed out of a strike three weeks ago and submitted the contract to the membership. 
 
American had said it would use nonunion personnel to run the airline if the TWU's 10,000 ground workers struck. It also said if the contract was not ratified, it would begin laying off TWU workers. 
 
The airline 's offer includes 21 percent pay raises over the three-year life of the contract; a clause the airline calls a "lifetime" job guarantee, and incentives for early retirement at age 55. 
 
But it also grants the airline the right to ask TWU employees to do work not covered in their job descriptions; establishes a separate wage structure for new employees up to 27 percent below union scale, and allows the airline to contract for building maintenance work outside the union. 
 
It was these clauses that prompted TWU officials to recommend that the contract be rejected.
 
Edition: FINAL
Section: BUSINESS
Dateline: DALLAS
 
 
            As a point of interest, the APA Pilots whose “B” scale language was negotiated with Seham’s assistance, was also more onerous since their wages not only never merged with their “A” scale Pilots, they also received lower Pension Benefits. The APA attempted to dump their “B” scale language during their 1997 PEB Hearings, but didn’t succeed.
 
Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.
 
“As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in the earliest realization of the two-tier system. APA was not faced with an insolvent or failing carrier; it was, however, forced to deal with an economic environment that had changed dramatically because of the effects of deregulation and was, by virtue of its independence, mandated to reach an agreement consistent with the needs and objectives of its constituency”. — Martin C. Seham
 
                  “89 we took concessions (lost our free medical)”
 
In 1989 the TWU and APFA agreed to retiree medical prefunding, but the APA had a dispute over their Medical Plan and filed an Interest Arbitration Grievance. The Arbitrator in that case ruled they were not required to prefund. 1991 NMB Award, Arbitrator Thomas F. Carey.
 
As a consequence of the results of the APA Grievance, the TWU negotiated the company match language which provided you (if you were a prefunding participant) with your total contribution + interest should the Retiree Medical Plan be terminated, as well as the Company’s matching funds. The company match is currently held up because of the Bankruptcy Courts section 1114 provision. I believe, however, that participating members are entitled to that as well.

Yeah you cut and paste real good but you are still not telling the whole story.  Yeah there was an early retirement at 55 and it included a lump sum option.  Ask anyone who was in Tulsa then how many A scalers took the money and ran.  Some couldn't because they didn't pass the required medical exam.  This is fact and you know it.  Also in 89 we were introduced to "Flex Benefits"  If you remember correctly we were given enough "Bob Bucks" to pay for our medical for a short time but then there was not enough to cover the expenses of it and then there were no "Bob Bucks" at all available.  Yeah there is lots of stuff that happened that never appeared in the "Contract"  Like forcing us to take Christmas week off.  This was a letter of agreement between Ed Wilson and Gail Ferguson.  You gonna deny that too?  For someone who claims they don't think the 80s contracts were "Great" you sure are defending them with copy/paste and not giving all the facts.  Like I said, many of us lived it so we know exactly what happened.  Keep copy/pasting your crap.  I know it's BS and so does anyone else who lived it.  Obviously you have a problem with your memory.  If you are going to copy/paste at least include the crap that resulted from the short sightedness of our international.  Your posts remind me of the overview we used to get with every TA that covered all the high points of the deal and none of the crap that came with it.  If you don't think having to pay for medical insurance and also prefunding retirement insurance was not a concession in 89 then you are delusional.  Like I said we know better.  You are obviously a TWU official or worse a Koolaid drinker.  I refuse to defend a union that has not represented me and treats me like a second class citizen.  I would gladly vote for AMFA if given the chance.  I believe the TWU has been given more than enough chances to do the right thing as far as AMTs are concerned and they have failed miserably.  They should be fired but there are too many like you who are either blind or have been corrupted.  If you are an internationl appointee then this is the kind of stuff I expect.  If you are an elected official then your membership should be made aware of your appologetics and vote you out.  If you are a rank and file member then I feel really bad for you that you can be so easily fooled by a bunch of shysters.  The TWU did a lot for the A scalers and not much for anyone who came after them.  It makes no difference if they didn't recommend it they still brought it back for a vote.  You can continue to make excuses for the TWU but I refuse to.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Also a little memory refresher Mr. NonReality.  In 89 the first TA was voted down and the TWU went back to the table and brought back the exact same TA only the second one did not include the backpay that was in the first one.  But I'm betting you'll deny that too.  Pathetic.

 

[texasreb]

Why don't you ask your Local President if this is a contract violation? If he says it is, ask him if he's challenged it ?

We asked that today at the union meeting. A grievance has been filed by the AFW union officers but will probably not be addressed for years as is the USAir way. This violation was done without any of the presidents being informed.

 

[Realityck]

 
Yeah you cut and paste real good but you are still not telling the whole story.  Yeah there was an early retirement at 55 and it included a lump sum option.  Ask anyone who was in Tulsa then how many A scalers took the money and ran.  Some couldn't because they didn't pass the required medical exam.  This is fact and you know it.  Also in 89 we were introduced to "Flex Benefits"  If you remember correctly we were given enough "Bob Bucks" to pay for our medical for a short time but then there was not enough to cover the expenses of it and then there were no "Bob Bucks" at all available.  Yeah there is lots of stuff that happened that never appeared in the "Contract"  Like forcing us to take Christmas week off.  This was a letter of agreement between Ed Wilson and Gail Ferguson.  You gonna deny that too?  For someone who claims they don't think the 80s contracts were "Great" you sure are defending them with copy/paste and not giving all the facts.  Like I said, many of us lived it so we know exactly what happened.  Keep copy/pasting your crap.  I know it's BS and so does anyone else who lived it.  Obviously you have a problem with your memory.  If you are going to copy/paste at least include the crap that resulted from the short sightedness of our international.  Your posts remind me of the overview we used to get with every TA that covered all the high points of the deal and none of the crap that came with it.  If you don't think having to pay for medical insurance and also prefunding retirement insurance was not a concession in 89 then you are delusional.  Like I said we know better.  You are obviously a TWU official or worse a Koolaid drinker.  I refuse to defend a union that has not represented me and treats me like a second class citizen.  I would gladly vote for AMFA if given the chance.  I believe the TWU has been given more than enough chances to do the right thing as far as AMTs are concerned and they have failed miserably.  They should be fired but there are too many like you who are either blind or have been corrupted.  If you are an internationl appointee then this is the kind of stuff I expect.  If you are an elected official then your membership should be made aware of your appologetics and vote you out.  If you are a rank and file member then I feel really bad for you that you can be so easily fooled by a bunch of shysters.  The TWU did a lot for the A scalers and not much for anyone who came after them.  It makes no difference if they didn't recommend it they still brought it back for a vote.  You can continue to make excuses for the TWU but I refuse to.

 
 
Slow your roll genius. Why don’t you read the contract before you shoot off your mouth.
 
  “Yes there was an early retirement and it included a lump sum option”
 
Read the 1995 Contract and page 158 “Special Profit Sharing Plan/Special Minimum Lump Sum Options”, and page 161 (Par B)  “Special Lump Sums”. I don’t know what you’re talking about but this was for all AMT’S. It referred to a minimum lump sum payment of 2% if that was greater than the profit sharing provided. I have no idea what lump sum you’re talking about.
 
      “Ask anyone who was in Tulsa then how many A scalers took the money and ran”
 
You must have a short memory since I already told you. Approximately 1,000 Tulsa AMTs took the 5+5 early out. That was the contractually required recall of all Tulsa AMTs on layoff before they could hire the first SRP.
 
 
     “Like forcing us to take Christmas week off. This was a letter of agreement between Ed Wilson and Gail Ferguson. You gonna deny that too? “      
 
I won’t deny it because that's true, however, the International Union immediately filed a 29d Grievance once they were advised of this by several Local 514 Officers, and here are the results. Working in Tulsa I’m surprised you didn’t know this, but I understand that wouldn’t serve your AMFA oriented agenda. Read the cases, you might learn something but then again in your case, maybe not!
 
                                    Case 528-92     AWARD
 
               1. The Company did not have the right under the Agreement
                   to assigned vacations at the
                   Tulsa Maintenance Base to a period specified by the Company.
              2. The local union did not have the authority to
                  negotiate the 1992 Christmas agreement with the Company.
              3. In the circumstances in this dispute the Company
                  had a right reasonably to rely on the 1992 Christmas agreement
                 with the local union.
                                                      WILLIAM EATON - Referee
 
                                    Case M-529-92     AWARD
 
               The Company does not have the right under the Collective
               Bargaining Agreement to assign specific vacation periods for
              the workforce at the TULE and AFW Maintenance Bases based on
              requirements of the service.
 
“Also in 89 we were introduced to "Flex Benefits" If you remember correctly we were given enough "Bob Bucks" to pay for our medical for a short time but then there was not enough to cover the expenses of it and then there were no "Bob Bucks" at all available
 
There was a negotiated formula for the Flex Benefits Plan that the Company tried to unilaterally change but was immediately challenged by the International Union           
 
                              M-791-94 29(d)            Flex Benefits Cash Back
 
                                                    AWARD
 
The Company's proposed calculation of cash back due to TWU members who use less than the full amount of benefit dollars under optional Medical Plan 3 and Optional Dental Plan 2 is a violation of the Agreement between the parties. The method of calculating cash back due to TWU members shall remain as it has been for the past four years.
 
 
          I know you're going to be disappointed, but I'm not going to waste any more of my time answering the rest of your mental ramblings. 
    
 
 

 

[trentrb211]

We asked that today at the union meeting. A grievance has been filed by the AFW union officers but will probably not be addressed for years as is the USAir way. This violation was done without any of the presidents being informed.

 

[bob@las-AA]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7qadFaPIn_uOFIyckxXZW9BaGs/view?usp=sharing

 

[lpbrian]

What is this grievance about? What is the violation?

 

[texasreb]

What is this grievance about? What is the violation?

The company is not going by the contract as the AFW local sees it. If the company riffed out like the contract says, it would take certain employees away from taesl that the company does not want to lose at this moment. So they are upgrading some amto's and opening up the transfer list.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

The only fact in this forum is facts don't matter only "my opinion is fact"

 

[texasreb]

The only fact in this forum is facts don't matter only "my opinion is fact"

????????????????

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

????????????????

I thought it was obvious that there are a lot of people that don't care about facts and rather spin. Maybe just a glut of trolls. Who knows it is the internet