You are completely off your rocker. With AMFA the membership owns the contract. Yes, if you wanna call it that, AMFA has local officers and National officers. With AMFA the National, local, nego cmte as well as membership all help with nego the contract. But National does not tell the nego team what to do or how to nego it like the TWU and teamsters do. Again we don't care how long AMFA and company take, at least we do know AMFA is being very thorough, not just skipping thru the process. Power with the NMB? Wow, you guys are just desperate as you look for flaws, your just stretching and far reaching now, and your looking pathetic in the process.
TWU accomplishments.........
- Thread starter Chuck Schalk
- Start date
You are completely off your rocker. With AMFA the membership owns the contract. Yes, if you wanna call it that, AMFA has local officers and National officers. With AMFA the National, local, nego cmte as well as membership all help with nego the contract. But National does not tell the nego team what to do or how to nego it like the TWU and teamsters do. Again we don't care how long AMFA and company take, at least we do know AMFA is being very thorough, not just skipping thru the process. Power with the NMB? Wow, you guys are just desperate as you look for flaws, your just stretching and far reaching now, and your looking pathetic in the process.
I really hate to point out the obvious here. You see there is a really big difference in the urgency to get a deal done. At SWA, the AMTs already have industry leading pay and benefits. Unlike us poor saps at AA languishing under a TWU negotiated contract waiting to get em next time - over and over. I don't hear any SWA AMTs complaining about pay or benefits, or the speed of the negotiations. There are no secrets, all the SWA AMTs know whats been said and done during negotiations. Wouldn't that be nice. Bottom line, who cares how long it takes - as long as your on the top in pay and benefits already. Next.
You make a very good point. We are very well informed and sit in and watch contract nego's so yes we know exactly what's going on, and therefore we understand that this will take awhile, and yes, why the rush? SWA will be sitting a lot better at end of 2013, even better at end of 2014, and yet better again at end of 2015. It's always better for everyone to nego in the better times, which is right around the corner.
Exactly.
We are in no hurry.
We see good things for SWA in the next couple years.
And the company will want to say things are bad (just like they are telling the rampers).
Agree. I have been spreading the word of patients for some time. Most all are in agreement after explaining where the company will be in the future, and how it will be better for all of us in the long run. Most all are ok with time frame, but I will tell you this, they are all saying (if this goes well past 8-16-13) retro will not be nego away this time, absolutely not. Just telling you what I am hearing, but I would bet your hearing the same thing.
2013 Dreams of Jobs and Freedom Scholarship
To commemorate the 50[sup]th[/sup] anniversary of the March on Washington where Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., delivered his “I Have a Dream” speech, the AFL-CIO and Union Plus are offering scholarships to help graduating high school seniors realize their dreams of a college education.
The one-time $5,000 scholarships are for study for the academic year beginning in the fall 2013 through summer 2014. Fifty scholarships will be awarded. http://www.aflcio.or...dom-Scholarship In Solidarity, CIO
To commemorate the 50[sup]th[/sup] anniversary of the March on Washington where Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., delivered his “I Have a Dream” speech, the AFL-CIO and Union Plus are offering scholarships to help graduating high school seniors realize their dreams of a college education.
The one-time $5,000 scholarships are for study for the academic year beginning in the fall 2013 through summer 2014. Fifty scholarships will be awarded. http://www.aflcio.or...dom-Scholarship In Solidarity, CIO
http://www.iamdl142....013MandR-36.pdf
The US Airways AMT's win awards for their MRO work (kind of kills that comment by the 514 president, USairways is merging with AA for TULE) and the IAM fights to get raise's, while the TWU has gotten us nothing more then pay & benefit cuts over the last 10 YEARS! The IAM gets a 3% raise fro their AMTs every year past ammendable date, from a bankruptcy contract. The TWU got us what? Nothing for 4 years after ammendable date from the 2003 contract and nothing from the bankruptcy contract. Believe it or not base mechs are taking job cuts according to the TWU.
Not rhetoric from the TWU's own numbers, page 13
http://local591.twu....Projections.pdf
"In total Base maintenance employees will be reduced by about 50% by 2017"
Can the TWU supporters deny these facts? answer is NO, these are the TWU facts.
The US Airways AMT's win awards for their MRO work (kind of kills that comment by the 514 president, USairways is merging with AA for TULE) and the IAM fights to get raise's, while the TWU has gotten us nothing more then pay & benefit cuts over the last 10 YEARS! The IAM gets a 3% raise fro their AMTs every year past ammendable date, from a bankruptcy contract. The TWU got us what? Nothing for 4 years after ammendable date from the 2003 contract and nothing from the bankruptcy contract. Believe it or not base mechs are taking job cuts according to the TWU.
Not rhetoric from the TWU's own numbers, page 13
http://local591.twu....Projections.pdf
"In total Base maintenance employees will be reduced by about 50% by 2017"
Can the TWU supporters deny these facts? answer is NO, these are the TWU facts.
Wow. 50 scholarships for $5k each. A whole quarter million dollars. BFD.
A conservative estimate of the annual losses suffered by each TWU-represented (and I use that word rather loosely) mechanic at AA would be perhaps $5,000 each year. Not by 50 employees, but by thousands of employees. Cue Bob Owens with an estimate that's several multiples of that. Even at an annual $5,000 loss per mechanic, AA's mechanics have lost almost $7,500 each since the bankruptcy filing. Several thousand mechanics multiplied by $7,500 each. Probably well in excess of $50 million in the aggregate.
And AA's mechanics should feel grateful that in exchange for their industry-lagging TWU wages and benefits that tbeir kids can compete for one of just 50 AFL-CIO scholarships for $5,000? The TWU's replacement can't come fast enough. With a better union and better negotiation skills, each and every mechanic would probably have at least $5,000 (the after-tax result of that $7,500 each) to spend on education this fall. And next fall. And the fall after that. And, of course, for several academic years in the past, had the TWU been fired earlier.
Cue to point out that you missed two things, the money we lost goes to AA, and AA doesn't give squat back, the scholarships are paid for extracting dues back from the Locals. The 50 winners aren't just from AA but from all the Locals.
IIRC they only get the automatic raise once, nothing after that. Guess they wanted to sell it as a shorter term than it actually was so they added the last 3% in if it went past 6 months, well its gone more than a year.
Eight years after leaving BK and they are only slightly better off than we are and way behind UAL and Delta who exited BK after them (both went through mergers as well) and of course WN.
The IAM hasnt done the profession any favors either.
The IAM without a doubt instilled stronger core union beliefs into their Airline culture than the TWU does at AA but the failure of the leadership to live up to what they preach is likely the reason why they have been voted off the property by more mechanics than any other union. The IAM at one time represented Continental and UAL, now they are both IBT, they were voted out of NWA after bringing back a crappy contract when the industry was enjoying its most profitable era ever and the IBT is raiding them at their last stronghold-USAIR, where eight years after exiting BK they are still right next to us at the bottom of the industry with a very wide margin between us and the middle. The industry has never seen such huge gaps in pay between the major carriers. We are talking around 20% below average and they (we) would need around an 80% increase to become industry leading (UPS). With US and AA becoming the largest carrier that means that our brothers and sisters who have kept up their end will have a harder time doing so in the future.
In 2003 we made around the same as UPS and SWA. We would need at least an 80% increase to catch up to UPS and around a 50% increase to catch up to WN.
In 2003 we made around the same as UPS and SWA. We would need at least an 80% increase to catch up to UPS and around a 50% increase to catch up to WN and we would need around 30% to catch up to where UAL and DAL are now.
The mid term wage adjustment only takes into account certain components of the wage, certain premiums, vacations, Holidays, sick time, IOD , OT rules, FT rules, Medical Benefits, retiree medical,allowances for tools and shoes and several other components of pay are not factored in, so even if we do ever see it, and it doesnt go the way of Profit Sharing or the Me Too clause we would still be lagging them by at least 10% for the remaining three years of the deal, assuming they got no raises over those three years.
Under the terms of the deal that Gless and Videtich help put in place, no matter what happens we will remain at the bottom of the industry for at least 6 more years. Do we really want them to be our voice at the meger table which is really the only likely opportunity we have to make positive changes?
There really is only one other way out of this deal, and thats a little too risky, that would be to go non-union, have no contract, then get a union and start from scratch. So the merger talks are pretty much it till 2018, like I said do we really want the same people who punished us for rejecting 2010 to be our voice at the table with the IAM and new AA?
Little has to send Don and Bobby back to work under the deal they said we should expect. Shouldnt be a hard decision, after all if its good enough for all of us it should be good enough for them right?
Its funny how Don got a deal for his buddies that are appointed to get at least a 25% increase in pay by way of a 10 hour override added by the company to their paychecks but then draws up bylaws where the elected representatives earn much less than that.
The mid term wage adjustment only takes into account certain components of the wage, certain premiums, vacations, Holidays, sick time, IOD , OT rules, FT rules, Medical Benefits, retiree medical,allowances for tools and shoes and several other components of pay are not factored in, so even if we do ever see it, and it doesnt go the way of Profit Sharing or the Me Too clause we would still be lagging them by at least 10% for the remaining three years of the deal, assuming they got no raises over those three years.
Under the terms of the deal that Gless and Videtich help put in place, no matter what happens we will remain at the bottom of the industry for at least 6 more years. Do we really want them to be our voice at the meger table which is really the only likely opportunity we have to make positive changes?
There really is only one other way out of this deal, and thats a little too risky, that would be to go non-union, have no contract, then get a union and start from scratch. So the merger talks are pretty much it till 2018, like I said do we really want the same people who punished us for rejecting 2010 to be our voice at the table with the IAM and new AA?
Little has to send Don and Bobby back to work under the deal they said we should expect. Shouldnt be a hard decision, after all if its good enough for all of us it should be good enough for them right?
Its funny how Don got a deal for his buddies that are appointed to get at least a 25% increase in pay by way of a 10 hour override added by the company to their paychecks but then draws up bylaws where the elected representatives earn much less than that.
the sad thing is that at aa MOST could not care less if we are even running for the award...
Flying low
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- Jul 19, 2011
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