Tulsa Manager Bonuses?

Relax there, informer!

Here's what i want!
I WANT A UNION THAT IS NOT IN BED WITH THE COMPANY AT ANY EXPENSE!
My anger is not exclusive to TULSA. It is also to all the line maintenance local presidents and e-board members who subscribe to this PLI and JLT bull crap. They feel it is better to engage the company while management is deciding which color Mercedes Benz goes with the yacht!

You totally misread my TULSA criticism. Simply stated, if something is good for TULSA, then the shear numbers in TULSA will vote a contract in! Understandable!
Let's leave it at that!

Maybe if NO ONE volunteered to participate in the media circus and JLT PLI crap, I would be more optimistic!


OK so now you spell out what you want and more about the problem.

DO YOU HAVE A SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM?

Think about this question real hard.
What do we have to gain by pulling out of the JLT, PLI crap?

Working with the company is NOT the problem here pal, the problem is that we are NOT being rewarded for that effort. I could really care less what management gets as long as I am being rewarded also. Pulling out serves no purpose at this point in time.

The problem, has been the same for 20 plus years of my employment at AA.

But what is the solution? Can you stop bitching long enough to comment on this proposal?

Contract Proposal

1. Offer Early Out option to retire the large number of aged folks on the defined pension plan. A (3 and 3) 3 years age, 3 years seniority would probably dump the mother load into retirement quickly.

2. Offer an increase in pension benefit formula to the TWA mechanic so that they can afford to leave.

3. Close MCI and offer full seniority to those few that will choose not to retire after #2 is implemented. Sell this overhaul base.

4. Offer wage and benefit increase to the unretired mechanics possibly including stock options since the company doesnt seem to count those as cash offerings, we could gain substantially by this method.

5. Offer Line Premium pay that will be worthwhile and offset high cost of living areas.

6. To fund cost of the above, create a new classification whereby new hires are no longer offered the defined pension but rather a 401(k) matching fund. And once again lenghten the time to top-scale pay. Through attrition, allow those that already have the defined pension to retire with that plan. Eventually the defined plan will no longer have a liability. But remove the defined plan from no employee.

7. Offer a length of agreement that will allow AA to purchase and replace the MD-80 Fleet. As retired personell are replaced, the CASM will average down. The faster you hire workers the faster your average CASM will drop. Lower CASM equals higher yield.


Now this may sound like 1983 all over again, and it does to me also, but I fear the alternative is not a win,win for all involved. It is obvious to me that the carriers that wnet through BK have a cost advantage over AA. We must find a way to make gains, and reduce those cost at the same time. And we have lived through this type of plan once with sustained growth, we can do it again. Everyone seems to respect Crandall, let's do his previous plan again with a twist on pensions.
 
OK so now you spell out what you want and more about the problem.

DO YOU HAVE A SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM?

Think about this question real hard.
What do we have to gain by pulling out of the JLT, PLI crap?

Working with the company is NOT the problem here pal, the problem is that we are NOT being rewarded for that effort. Pulling out serves no purpose at this point in time.

The problem, has the same for 20 plus years of my employment at AA.

But what is the solution?

There is no solution! We are our own worst enemy!
Show them our discontent by affecting our work, then they threaten to outsource! Keep showing them we're just happy to have our jobs, they continue to reap the reward$$$$$ while we wait for the $.43 an hour increase in April.

There is no solution because the TWU will have us work for less and less as long as they collect their union dues.



Management has no shame in taking their bonuses. they will tell you that most are stock performance based. How do they think the stock as performed as well as it did? BECAUSE WE GAVE BACK BILLIONS IN CONCESSIONS! Then they use the media to show what a labor love fest they have which makes the stock attractive to investors!


Now, to answer you proposed contract solutions!
Some good suggestions!
But you have to keep in something in mind!

The company does not have to give us ANYTHING!
They own us via the union. All they have to do is just breathe the word outsource or bankruptcy and this union folds like a cheap suit fearing the lost of union dues!
 
There is no solution! We are our own worst enemy!
Show them our discontent by affecting our work, then they threaten to outsource! Keep showing them we're just happy to have our jobs, they continue to reap the reward$$$$$ while we wait for the $.43 an hour increase in April.

There is no solution because the TWU will have us work for less and less as long as they collect their union dues.
Management has no shame in taking their bonuses. they will tell you that most are stock performance based. How do they think the stock as performed as well as it did? BECAUSE WE GAVE BACK BILLIONS IN CONCESSIONS! Then they use the media to show what a labor love fest they have which makes the stock attractive to investors!


Does it just make you feel better to spend so much time bitching about a problem to which you perceive no solution exist?

In my opinion, the TWU and AA now face that which for years they have dished out. For years the TWU and AA have agreed to labor agreements that gave AA cost advantages over the competition, now through Bankruptcy, the other carriers are sitting in better long term postions than AA. At AA we still have our defind pension and overhaul. Which at negotiations time will remain very important to protect.

The concessions without Bankruptcy, the management bonuses, have placed this company in a very dangerous position. Labor leaders have access to more business data than ever before, but the rank and file is going nutso because of the bonuses.

Yes I'm mad too Eddie.

But best we come up with a solution before we engage in a battle and destroy everything.

Those management bonuses are in the form of stock options, because the Presidential Grievances or 29D whatever you want to call them proved the "cash" method WAS a vioalation of the restructuring agreements.

Well, now that AA has determined that "stock options" are not cash, we should be able to get a couple of Billion worth of those to share amongst our work groups right? Would that reward you as well as it does management?

In other words, quit bitching, think like management and go get your reward during negotiations.

If you go in, wanting nothing more than a piece of some management teams ass, you might just get a fight that leads to everyone losing, including yourself. We should temper our anger, work on a solution, and just as the TWU says management cannot mangage so we must manage for them, if the TWU leaders cannot lead, then we will have to collectively lead for them. But continuous bitching without solutions is going to get us nowhere, that I am sure of.

Remember, the TWU was saved from an NMB election by a farse produced and granted by the Government. One more cluster like the past negotiations and I bet the TWU is history in short order. Even the NMB will not be able to save the TWU if they screw this one up.

Trust me Hopeful, everyone in Tulsa is not worshipping the Dennis Burchette throne or supportive of his trust in managment!

There is already at least one current Executive Board member running for President of the Local and bashing Burchette's leadership beyond belief. So just be patient and stop pissing off your union brothers in Tulsa with your bitching without solutions loud mouth.
 
I really can't look at Dennis Burchette and his goons who are on TV and in the papers, and consider that the view of the people in Tulsa. Using that logic, everytime DFW's company-unionists--aka 565 Officers--speak, they are speaking what the members are saying or feeling. In this local it's quite the opposite as I'm sure the same is in Tulsa or any local for that matter.

BTW...the only solution is removing the company union once and for all. :up:
 
OK so now you spell out what you want and more about the problem.

DO YOU HAVE A SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM?

Think about this question real hard.
What do we have to gain by pulling out of the JLT, PLI crap?
Working with the company is NOT the problem here pal, the problem is that we are NOT being rewarded for that effort. I could really care less what management gets as long as I am being rewarded also. Pulling out serves no purpose at this point in time.

The problem, has been the same for 20 plus years of my employment at AA.

But what is the solution? Can you stop bitching long enough to comment on this proposal?

Sounds like you are singing a new tune!! :shock:

Tell me this then....what will bringing in a new bunch of officers accomplish? The working together process has been very successful in Tulsa, lead by the current leaders of 514. If you are referencing the EBoard member running for president I think you are, holy crap!! You think Dennis Burchette is bad. He'd be out before he could
get comfortable in that new office chair. And you know it!

And by the sound of some of your contract proposals, sounds like you are negotiating on the company's behalf Informer. :shock: :shock: IE: doing away with pension plans and making people wait for top-out. Closing bases and forcing people to move. MCI Transplant...how about that???? Wanna move????? Please explain...oh wait, that's the amfa mentality. Isn't that what happened at Alaska with their pension??? Or take care of the union members in place now but screw any new hires. What kind of unionism is that????
 
What do we have to gain by pulling out of the JLT, PLI crap?

Working with the company is NOT the problem here pal, the problem is that we are NOT being rewarded for that effort. I could really care less what management gets as long as I am being rewarded also. Pulling out serves no purpose at this point in time.

Most if not all of the money saving ideas came from the rank and file.

By accomplishing these things in the JLT-PLI meetings two things were acoomplished.

The rank and file produced huge cost savings but got nothing in return.

Management reaps the rewards for what the rank and file could have done without them.


Pulling out of the JLT-PLI is the only answer.

Let management come up with the ideas or give the rank and file the 38K

How much of that 500 million did any of us see. Weather it be Tulsa or the line.

The company wants 95 million from the line. What do I get
it better be more than that AIP payout or else I "aint" interested
 
Most if not all of the money saving ideas came from the rank and file.

By accomplishing these things in the JLT-PLI meetings two things were acoomplished.

The rank and file produced huge cost savings but got nothing in return.

Management reaps the rewards for what the rank and file could have done without them.
Pulling out of the JLT-PLI is the only answer.

Let management come up with the ideas or give the rank and file the 38K

How much of that 500 million did any of us see. Weather it be Tulsa or the line.

The company wants 95 million from the line. What do I get
it better be more than that AIP payout or else I "aint" interested

What will pulling out accomplish??? You have a solution???
 
Or take care of the union members in place now but screw any new hires. What kind of unionism is that????

Good question Bill. Can you explain B-scale and SRP's for us. What kind of unionism is that????
 
The company does not have to give us ANYTHING!
They own us via the union. All they have to do is just breathe the word outsource or bankruptcy and this union folds like a cheap suit fearing the lost of union dues!


No, they own us via the unionS. Not just the TWU. All of our unions are corporations too. The AA unions make decisions based on the " if there is no company I might actually have to get a job" premise. Hard to stay home, shop at Target, and get paid for doing nothing if you don't work for the union. That is unless you are scamming workman's comp. More lucrative to scam thousands of dues payers, dontcha know? They're all the same.
 
Sounds like you are singing a new tune!! :shock:

Tell me this then....what will bringing in a new bunch of officers accomplish? The working together process has been very successful in Tulsa, lead by the current leaders of 514. If you are referencing the EBoard member running for president I think you are, holy crap!! You think Dennis Burchette is bad. He'd be out before he could
get comfortable in that new office chair. And you know it!

And by the sound of some of your contract proposals, sounds like you are negotiating on the company's behalf Informer. :shock: :shock: IE: doing away with pension plans and making people wait for top-out. Closing bases and forcing people to move. MCI Transplant...how about that???? Wanna move????? Please explain...oh wait, that's the amfa mentality. Isn't that what happened at Alaska with their pension??? Or take care of the union members in place now but screw any new hires. What kind of unionism is that????
Take a breath bill.
Your sounding like a damn fool. All but 40 million of that 500 million was pencil whipped bs. The only thing working in this smoke and mirrors campaign is the smoke machine!
You crack me up. Negotiating on the companies behalf? Why don't you have the same open minded thought processes about the last 24 years of contract negotiations between the twu and the company that you have in a single post from informer?
Whats your ideas for the next contract? Come on tough guy lets here it! Whats your take on our line guys? Should they make what an amt in T Town makes?
 
Sounds like you are singing a new tune!! :shock:

How do you figure I am singing a new tune? It may be that you are just now listening. I still do not support that JLT, PLT, crap. I just don't see the advantage of pulling out as this time. When the time comes, then I will favor pulling out. Like I have said before, working with the company is not a "new" idea. There was a brand new 757 and a brand new 777 purchased with our money saving ideas in the past. If this is a new idea, then what was that Bill? I remember the days each of those Aircraft first landed in Tulsa to celebrate those savings. The only difference is "WE are no longer getting rewards for our ideas". Why don't we settle the matter the real union way? You know send a Local 514 ballot to all members and tabulate a vote for or against the issue. Because the current leadership would not get the answer they want, that is why that will not happen.

Tell me this then....what will bringing in a new bunch of officers accomplish? The working together process has been very successful in Tulsa, lead by the current leaders of 514. If you are referencing the EBoard member running for president I think you are, holy crap!! You think Dennis Burchette is bad. He'd be out before he could
get comfortable in that new office chair. And you know it!

Again, the current working together process may be successful for the company, but where is the reward for the employee? I earned well over $125,000.00 by turning in
IdeAAs in Action helping the company buy that 757 and 777 Airplane. Oh and by the way, I have actually heard more members praising Grizz in the last three weeks than I have heard praise for Burchette. You are wrong, I do not know Grizz at all, and your opinion is not my idea of credible either. What do you mean "He'd be out"? Do you mean the International would remove him? Because there is no re-call for the membership to do it. That is an AMFA idea now that you brought it up. Maybe a new group of Officers will follow the instructions of the membership. There is more to the election issues than just the working together BS.

And by the sound of some of your contract proposals, sounds like you are negotiating on the company's behalf Informer. :shock: :shock: IE: doing away with pension plans and making people wait for top-out. Closing bases and forcing people to move. MCI Transplant...how about that???? Wanna move????? Please explain...oh wait, that's the amfa mentality. Isn't that what happened at Alaska with their pension??? Or take care of the union members in place now but screw any new hires. What kind of unionism is that????


How is an early out a company behalf?

I did not do away with pension plans, it was coverted through attrition.

How is offering an increase in pension benefit formula for the TWA employee a company behalf?

How is wage and benefit increases a company behalf?

How is a Line premium a company behalf?

And for your information, the B-Scale of 1983 gave incumbent employees an early out retirement, and $3 plus over two year raise, and lowered the entry rate, inceased the top pay length, and sold out the new hire. What kind of unionism is that you ask? TWU/AA 1983 is what kind of unionism that is.

Now, would you be so kind Bill, as to lay out your vision or contract proposal? Or are you and Hopeful from the same mold? You know complain like hell but offer no solutions yourself. For starters, tell us how you will keep a defined pension and those cost in place, for even the new hire when every other carrier in the market no longer has to fund that?

I know that contract proposal was hard to swallow. But if you want to keep your pension and your overhaul base, you better come up with some idea besides "you owe us" because we trusted you and worked with you. I bet you could not save both the pension and overhaul going to binding arbitration! Show us your wits and post your proposals.
 
I knew I should have eaten the BBQ Sandwhich!

Besides, if we do not allow them their bonuses, they will quit and go elsewhere to work.

Have you guys seen this article?

"The greatest savings came from the biggest job: completely overhauling big planes.It used to take 800 American mechanics 23 days. Now half the number of mechanics can finish the job in just 13 days." :shock:

Huh? I was in A/C maintenance a long time and this can not be done without segmenting the work. The exact same check done in 10 days less with half the mechanics? I think not. :rolleyes:

A bonus is in order for snowing the media in thinking this is a good thing. :up:
 
Romano says there is "absolutely, absolutely" a lesson at American for other U.S. companies. "We should not give up on our people," she says.

In other words, do it the American way.

Yep. O'le Carmine there with his multi-million dollar bonus award is happier than a pig in slop. Standing there with the machinist describing the "big o'le boat" turning. Good Grief.

Just give em a BBQ Sandwhich and a $50 gift card, and they will do twice as much work with half the poeple.

Meanwhile, Burchette slips into his TWU shirt, (check video, you can see his original shirt under the one he slipped on for the video) and proclaims he is now "one of them". Did he get some stock options also? How can the Local Union President be "one of them" and no longer "one of us". That is why he will no longer be Local President come July. He forgot to tell CBS about his hands being in the company pockets.

How many times are they going to show the same story about sharpening drill bits? Every other company on the planet is re-sharpening drill bits. This is nothing new.

The real test is coming at negotiation time.

What do you expect for a reward?
 
How many times are they going to show the same story about sharpening drill bits? Every other company on the planet is re-sharpening drill bits. This is nothing new.

I thought that was pretty funny saying how they are saving 1 million dollars a year by sharpening drill bits.
 

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