The "dvd" From Awa-former

[mdarules]

Does this really matter AWA f/a's - It is DOH and what is the point of having a union if you can change things whenever you feel like it. There is none! Lets focus on working together and accomplishing something that is WORTHY of accomplishing instead of beating this poor horse!!! All of the money that was spent on DVD's could have been used for much better things - I wonder if the DVD's was company funded? or union funded? Anywho I guess next week will tell and I am sure glad that we have an option to go to Teamsters if the AFA screws us on this one..

 

[AWAskyprincess]

Does this really matter AWA f/a's - It is DOH and what is the point of having a union if you can change things whenever you feel like it. There is none! Lets focus on working together and accomplishing something that is WORTHY of accomplishing instead of beating this poor horse!!! All of the money that was spent on DVD's could have been used for much better things - I wonder if the DVD's was company funded? or union funded? Anywho I guess next week will tell and I am sure glad that we have an option to go to Teamsters if the AFA screws us on this one..

[post="310841"][/post]​

YES it does matter...Yea KNOW change can be a good thing..NO the company did not fund the DVD.

 

[PHLfa88]

DITTO!!

 

[Happy_People]

OUr local funded it thanks for asking. Its not your money its ours. I look at it this way, we need a change for the future. AFA national needs to change a lot of things if they want to keep everyones buisness. A lot of the AFA carriers are young in life and seniority. I think we need to go into this thing and gets whats fair for us at west but fair for east as well. The only way any of this will work is if we have fair integration. I was hired after we signed up for AFA but who knew anything like this would happen. Its a unique situation and I am sure we have a lot more unique situations to look fwd to in the future. I think it would benefit all AFA carriers as a whole group. Please don't be upset because our local is trying to get something that is fair for us... thats the point of having my union. We don't want to conquer as your MEC puts it in his hotlines. Unions are he for completely different things today than what they were intended for... so lets all change for the better. Wouldn't you want everything to be fair and equal for both groups so we can move on?

ANd don't you think we feel like we are screwed by AFA natl since we are the young carrier? We are scared of the same things and again want whats right for everyone.

 

[Happy_People]

Oh wait whydon't you ask AFA national about the combined $60,000 they are spending to send us our official seniority position via certified mail this week? I'm sure we can spend that money on better things.

 

[mdarules]

Oh wait whydon't you ask AFA national about the combined $60,000 they are spending to send us our official seniority position via certified mail this week? I'm sure we can spend that money on better things.

[post="310878"][/post]​

Yes it could be but that is procedure if we want to ensure our hire dates, I think the thing that people don't understand is that this is whats FAIR and FACTUAL and PLAYING BY THE RULES!!! We accrue seniority as our years pass and my question is - if this is so unfair why have you not challenged this in the past? If it does change bye -bye AFA and hello teamsters --- Don't forget that USAir supported AWA for 6 years while they were getting their first contract and this is what you are trying to dish them... When USAir and United were to merge nobody went and said we have to change DOH we have to change DOH - because we play by the rules; and we will this time too!! We don't fight in sandboxes we fight in boxing rings!!! Lets all just work together and kick the rest of the markets A++!!!

 

[tahitigirl]

Just to throw out a question. What happens 5 or 10 years down the road and we merge with another company? Lets say this other company is only 10 years old, should they be brought on by DOH or some other "fair" way? Don't forget no one stays "junior" forever. Maybe we should also think about what may happen in the future before changing the bylaws.

 

[mdarules]

Just to throw out a question. What happens 5 or 10 years down the road and we merge with another company? Lets say this other company is only 10 years old, should they be brought on by DOH or some other "fair" way? Don't forget no one stays "junior" forever. Maybe we should also think about what may happen in the future before changing the bylaws.

[post="310886"][/post]​

This is correct another merger or buyout is not an impossibility, DOH ensures your seniority per when you started not slotted in at some ridiculous seniority you never accrued - If there is an alternate solution we would have thought of it through several mergers trust me - WE have always done the fair thing by giving DOH even when we DIDN'T have to... Don't listen to what mgmt, tells you b/c you will sink - go with your gut instinct.. Management wants us to fight and squabble but we are not going to give them the pleasure of it We will do what is right and go our merry ways and be happy about it WE WILL have to become a ONE UNITED group and stand tall and strong to win this uphill batlle with things going the way they are in the industry.. Lets make this a great place to work..

 

[EricLv2Fish]

Management wants us to fight and squabble but we are not going to give them the pleasure of it We will do what is right and go our merry ways and be happy about it WE WILL have to become a ONE UNITED group and stand tall and strong to win this uphill batlle with things going the way they are in the industry.. Lets make this a great place to work..

[post="310892"][/post]​

Let's do make this a great place to work! I think that's what management wants too. I think everyone want's it union and non-union alike...otherwise we don't survive. Prolonged squabbling is counter productive in any workgroup....our new airline can't afford prolonged squabbling by any group.

 

[Mtnman928]

Just to throw out a question. What happens 5 or 10 years down the road and we merge with another company? Lets say this other company is only 10 years old, should they be brought on by DOH or some other "fair" way? Don't forget no one stays "junior" forever. Maybe we should also think about what may happen in the future before changing the bylaws.

[post="310886"][/post]​

They will changes the rules (again) to suit their desires.

Mtnman

 

[MAABoss]

OUr local funded it thanks for asking. Its not your money its ours. I look at it this way, we need a change for the future. AFA national needs to change a lot of things if they want to keep everyones buisness. A lot of the AFA carriers are young in life and seniority. I think we need to go into this thing and gets whats fair for us at west but fair for east as well. The only way any of this will work is if we have fair integration. I was hired after we signed up for AFA but who knew anything like this would happen. Its a unique situation and I am sure we have a lot more unique situations to look fwd to in the future. I think it would benefit all AFA carriers as a whole group. Please don't be upset because our local is trying to get something that is fair for us... thats the point of having my union. We don't want to conquer as your MEC puts it in his hotlines. Unions are he for completely different things today than what they were intended for... so lets all change for the better. Wouldn't you want everything to be fair and equal for both groups so we can move on?

ANd don't you think we feel like we are screwed by AFA natl since we are the young carrier? We are scared of the same things and again want whats right for everyone.

[post="310875"][/post]​

We need a change for the future??? You mean your 1400+ to our 7000+ flight attendants? Why wasn't the need for a change presented before you claim this "unfairness"?

I hardly think that slotting in a 4 year AWA flight attendant behing a 25 year flight attendatnt, and basically giving 21 years seniority is "fair". What's fair is following the guidelines that have been in palce. Which is DOH.

As far as Im concerned, money and postage was wasted on the dvd's, as HP's point could have been presented at the BOD....for FREE.

We are not DYING to come to PHX, so relax.

 

[luvn737s]

Just to throw out a question.  What happens 5 or 10 years down the road and we merge with another company?  Lets say this other company is only 10 years old, should they be brought on by DOH or some other "fair" way?  Don't forget no one stays "junior" forever.  Maybe we should also think about what may happen in the future before changing the bylaws.

[post="310886"][/post]​

Suppose the airline is 61 years old (like AA) and is much larger (like AA)?

While they may not remain junior forever, they also may never accrue meaningful seniority over their remaining career because they're stuck behind someone who got hired at an airline that stagnated.

With 2 airlines of relatively the same age and seniority, a reasonable person would say DOH is equitable. In this case is patently is not. Both employee groups should retain their relative bidding positions, as would be the case under the first scenario above. Reasonable people can find a fair compromise, while others have no problem with 2 or more wrongs making a right (as long as the "wrong" in question doesn't affect them). The legend of the "wrong" perpetrated by some for a short-term gain will live on long after the merger and every new-hire going forward is sure to be indoctrinated.

Now is the time to choose a solution everyone can live with for a long time to come.

 

[tahitigirl]

Suppose the airline is 61 years old (like AA) and is much larger (like AA)?

While they may not remain junior forever, they also may never accrue meaningful seniority over their remaining career because they're stuck behind someone who got hired at an airline that stagnated.

With 2 airlines of relatively the same age and seniority, a reasonable person would say DOH is equitable. In this case is patently is not. Both employee groups should retain their relative bidding positions, as would be the case under the first scenario above. Reasonable people can find a fair compromise, while others have no problem with 2 or more wrongs making a right (as long as the "wrong" in question doesn't affect them). The legend of the "wrong" perpetrated by some for a short-term gain will live on long after the merger and every new-hire going forward is sure to be indoctrinated.

Now is the time to choose a solution everyone can live with for a long time to come.

[post="310931"][/post]​

Good point. But now a days there are few very old and very large companies such as AA, Delta, Co, and NW. There are many smaller airlines such as JetBlue, Independence, Frontier, Hooters, ect. A few years ago we tried the "big merger" just to told no by the gov. Its much more likely if we merge again in the future to be with a smaller newer airline.

 

[luvn737s]

The PBGC debacle has shown the government it should step out of the way if airlines big or small want to merge. If it attracts investment, go with it!

 

[AWAskyprincess]

We need a change for the future??? You mean your 1400+ to our 7000+ flight attendants? Why wasn't the need for a change presented before you claim this "unfairness"?

I hardly think that slotting in a 4 year AWA flight attendant behing a 25 year flight attendatnt, and basically giving 21 years seniority is "fair". What's fair is following the guidelines that have been in palce. Which is DOH.

As far as Im concerned, money and postage was wasted on the dvd's, as HP's point could have been presented at the BOD....for FREE.

We are not DYING to come to PHX, so relax.

[post="310930"][/post]​

OH YES YOU ARE...FUN , GREAT WEATHER YEAR ROUND NO WEATHER DELAYS WORK 4 TURN DAYS PER MONTH SO DONT TELL US TO RELAX OH AND DID I FORGET TO MENTION EASY COMMTE FROM WEST COAST !!!!!