SWA now getting involved with slot (s) possibilities

[WorldTraveler]

yes, of course you are right. DL BEGAN the process of closing its hub earlier than 2005 and earlier than BK but it did not finish the process until 2005. Kevin noted that discrepancy several pages ago. Did you thank him for doing the heavy lifting for you?

Do you feel better now that you have found my error and exploited it?

Do you think it will make one bit of difference in whether DL will be flying DOMESTIC flights from DAL and DFW while WN will be stuck at DAL which one minute you say is inconvenient and the next....

If anyone wants to accuse me of thinking that DL should be included in every comment, you have certainly got to play the role for WN.
The local market when speaking about an airport does not mean the whole region. IN the case of ATL, it is one and the same because there is ONLY ONE commercial airport for the region.

But for Dallas/Ft. Worth and Chicago, there are multiple airports. WN in both cases chose to stay away from the airport where the rest of the airlines fly. Don't carry a chip on your shoulder if there is a discussion about DFW that doesn't include WN.

 

[WNMECH]

Ok, I will try to be more clear to you next time.

Delta reduced flights so you didn't call it a hub anymore, then left DFW almost completely in the same year they filed for bankruptcy.

All the stories I read, say they closed their hub in 2005 and filed for bankruptcy in 2005.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-01-31-delta-dfw_x.htm

http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/14/news/fortune500/delta/

You feel better about it now?

 
No I do my own heavy lifting.
I pointed out your error 13 posts before he did.

 

[WorldTraveler]

congratulations again for noting the error. I'll be sure and be as thorough in sorting thru what you write.

Again, does it change the larger argument about the fact that DL will compete with WN from DAL and with AA from DFW?

As I noted a long time ago, you and WN really don't want to think about a world in which DL - a non-Texas airline actually ends up being the largest carrier in some of the biggest markets from N. Texas because AA and WN have pushed each other into boxes which DL doesn't have to stay inside of.

 

[WNMECH]

yes, of course you are right. DL BEGAN the process of closing its hub earlier than 2005 and earlier than BK but it did not finish the process until 2005. Kevin noted that discrepancy several pages ago. Did you thank him for doing the heavy lifting for you?

Do you feel better now that you have found my error and exploited it?

Do you think it will make one bit of difference in whether DL will be flying DOMESTIC flights from DAL and DFW while WN will be stuck at DAL which one minute you say is inconvenient and the next....

If anyone wants to accuse me of thinking that DL should be included in every comment, you have certainly got to play the role for WN.
The local market when speaking about an airport does not mean the whole region. IN the case of ATL, it is one and the same because there is ONLY ONE commercial airport for the region.

But for Dallas/Ft. Worth and Chicago, there are multiple airports. WN in both cases chose to stay away from the airport where the rest of the airlines fly. Don't carry a chip on your shoulder if there is a discussion about DFW that doesn't include WN.

  Right. I got it now.
 
So all the airports in the New York area are not the same local traffic?
So how far apart do airports have to be, to not be the same local traffic?
 
You only fail to mention WN in those comparisons because it shows Delta to have been miniaturized in North Texas by years of losing money, losing to competition and then bankruptcy.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I didn't say they weren't necessarily the same market. but when there are multiple airports involved, the discussion can be about the group or it can be about each individual market.

You appear to be smart enough to grasp that concept.


I see you want to keep holding onto that BK routine with DL... as if it will make one bit of difference when DL jets show up at DAL while also at DFW leaving for the same five cities...or more.

WN never did want to compete against anyone and esp. not DL.

You have made that reality abundantly clear in this conversation.

 

[WNMECH]

I didn't say they weren't necessarily the same market. but when there are multiple airports involved, the discussion can be about the group or it can be about each individual market.

You appear to be smart enough to grasp that concept.


I see you want to keep holding onto that BK routine with DL... as if it will make one bit of difference when DL jets show up at DAL while also at DFW leaving for the same five cities...or more.

WN never did want to compete against anyone and esp. not DL.

You have made that reality abundantly clear in this conversation.

 I am smart enough to see that you conveniently twist statements to pretend that Delta is some big threat to everyone else. 
 
News Flash. I don't care if Delta flies out of any airport on earth. We will still have our piece of the pie and continue to grow. More people fly SWA in the US than any other airline for a reason. When we expand to international destinations, our customers will follow.
 
The reason I point out Delta's bankruptcy is because you keep ducking it. Delta failed to compete . They lost.
You ignore that the only reason they can do anything now is ONLY because of BANKRUPTCY.
It is the only argument I need to make to prove that your Delta is the best at everything attitude, is wrong.
Unless you want to try and say they are the best at bankruptcy?

 

[Kev3188]

DL took their planes and went to NYC where they dethroned AA's position in its former headquarters and a market where AA had an advantage for years. HAD

Sure, several years later.
 

you can't seem to grasp that DL closed its HUB at DFW but they remained the 2nd largest airline in the local market.

 
 

So what?
They went down to only 21 flights a day.
I still don't get your math.
I guess you don't count SWA?

The question you should be asking is "2nd" compared to who else?

I mean it's not hard to be 2nd or 3rd if everyone else at DFW has a relatively small operation as well.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Actually, Kev, DL's buildup of JFK began in the summer of 2005 and before BK - less than six months after the final pull down of DFW as a hub. SEA, SFO, and LAX all had mainline domestic increases on top of several markets that had regional capacity. There were also int'l markets that had increases before, some of which were pulled after 9/11.

You can continue to harp on BK as if it somehow makes WN superior but at least DL and the other network carriers competed against other carriers throughout deregulation. It's not hard to "be safe" when you build your hubs in airports that other carriers do not or cannot serve.... or as we have seen in PHL and ATL, run from the market with your tail between your legs when the network carriers decide they really don't want to see you.

The whole fall of the WA is because WN has figured out it can pick on AA better than anyone else in the midst of all of the other challenge that AA will be facing with the merger. WN's competitive strategy is almost entirely focused against AA and UA.


Perhaps you two sleuths can find an incorrect word but I don't think I have ever said that DL was the 2nd largest carrier from N. Texas. All of my references to DL's market position were to DFW. And DL's relative local market position for the DFW market was unchanged after the hub pulldown.
If you want to lump the DAL and DFW markets into one group, then DL was indeed #3.

In case you two have missed it, the whole reason we are having this discussion is because WN has been living in an AA imposed box that hasn't permitted WN to fully serve the country. DL has never lived under that restriction at DFW. DL and WN haven't directly competed on a nonstop basis from N. Texas against WN.

That will all change in Oct 2014.

 

[Kev3188]

 
 

Perhaps you two sleuths can find an incorrect word but I don't think I have ever said that DL was the 2nd largest carrier from N. Texas. All of my references to DL's market position were to DFW.

Indeed, which is why I posted this:

The question you should be asking is "2nd" compared to who else?
I mean it's not hard to be 2nd or 3rd if everyone else at DFW has a relatively small operation as well.

No DFW/DAL mixing, no "North Texas" stuff, etc.

 

[WorldTraveler]

then when you are told to just load the airplane, we don't expect you to be making any distinctions between bin 1 an d 4 etc, tay?

we won't tell the captain what you've done either, agreed?

cause none of it matters anyway, right?

 

[WNMECH]

You can continue to harp on BK as if it somehow makes WN superior .

You have to be kidding, right?

Delta ran with its tail between its legs to bankruptcy court to beg a judge to let them dump their debts.
They screwed their shareholders, creditors and the taxpayers.

SWA continues to grow and has posted 40 consecutive years of profits.

You are smart enough to realize this isn't a game, right?
These are businesses.

Profits=good.
Bankruptcy=bad

Yes WN is superior "somehow".

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, we get that.... all of the legacy airlines have done it.

They also have competed aggressively with everyone that came along.

If WN had to do that, they wouldn't be smelling quite so rosy.

It's great to be able to hoodwink FL employees and regulators in Washington about how great WN is only to cut a dozen (is that about right?) FL cities.

UA was right... there is no WN effect any more... WN does have the cash and financial strength to slash fares in order to push their way into markets but long-term WN's fares aren't on any lower on average than anyone else's.


BTW, it's fun to see how competitive you are.... learn it from your dad or mom?

I had to giggle when I read your post counting up the number of posts ahead of Kevin that you found my error.

good thing Kev is a nice guy at heart and didn't come back and swat you.

 

[Kev3188]

we won't tell the captain what you've done either, agreed?

Who's "we?"

And actually, yeah "we" (as in Crew Chiefs) do tell the pilots what we've done. On every flight, in fact. Sometimes it's verbal, usually it's via ACARS.

So now that that's out of the way, what does that have to do with anything I've written here?

You distinguished the DFW market from DAL and N. Texas as a whole. I simply asked a rhetorical question based on what you noted, qualifications included.

 

 

[WNMECH]

The whole fall of the WA is because WN has figured out it can pick on AA better than anyone else in the midst of all of the other challenge that AA will be facing with the merger. WN's competitive strategy is almost entirely focused against AA and UA.

1. The WA fell because individual congressmen were being told by there constituents, they wanted SWA service to their communities from Dallas.

They were one by one submitting legislation to exempt them one at a time from the Wright Amendment restrictions.
These campaigns were about to reach critical mass and they were not started by SWA.

This threatened DFW, AA and the citizens of Dallas who live near Love Field.
Forth Worth claimed it threatened them also.

WN only changed their neutral stance on the WA after it was apparent that something was going to have to give. That started the Free Love Field / Wright is Wrong campaign.


The Wright Amendment Reform Act of 2006, was a compromise between all these parties which would slowly allow the restrictions to come down but keep Love small because an unrestricted Love would harm Dallas local residents, DFW and AA.

2. SWA competitive strategy is entirely focused on making profits and bringing service to places in a way that allows for them to provide that service without losing money.
If the new NWA / Delta can stay out of bankruptcy court we will compete more, and I am sure WN will continue to fly more passengers than them in the US and continue to grow.

 

[WNMECH]

I had to giggle when I read your post counting up the number of posts ahead of Kevin that you found my error.

good thing Kev is a nice guy at heart and didn't come back and swat you.

I didn't say one negative thing at all abou Kev.
I was just being accurate in pointing out that you were wrong again.

I have to giggle every time you are proven wrong.

How much money did you lose in Deltas bankruptcy?
You seem real bent out of shape over it.

Does the thought of SWA getting more slots at LGA and DCA really scare you that much?