Southwest says it's now the second-busiest carrier at Washington National

[WorldTraveler]

WN specifically said that it needed AA out of DAL in order to be able to compete in the newly opened longhaul market.

The DOJ bought it despite the fact that it did no analysis.

AA was required to divest access to DAL and WN has easily gained 20% market share in the markets it started when the WA started, and public data is only available for the first 10 weeks of WN's DAL longhaul operation.

WN needed no protection whatsoever and was happy to accept the limitation on being able to fly from DFW because it intended to dominate DAL.

Problem for AA and WN is that the DOJ blessed a duopoly of the DFW/DAL market that pushed every other carrier out of the market as a viable large competitor and they did it without any legal basis to do so.

DL appears to be ready to challenge it all and become the airline that opens N. Texas to true competition, something AA and WN have refused to allow as they have partnered with their governmental sponsors in Washington.

 

[WNMECH]

WN specifically said that it needed AA out of DAL in order to be able to compete in the newly opened longhaul market.

Where is your proof of this statement?

I know WN wanted slots in DCA and LGA if AA was forced to divest them as did other carriers.
They were not just given to WN.
They were bid on and sold.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/business/southwest-buys-takeoff-slots-at-la-guardia.html?_r=0
 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2014/01/30/jetblue-reagan-national-airport--slots/5055035/

But I don't recall ANY effort or statement by WN to have AA removed from Love Field.
Can you show where WN specifically said that?

I think you are making this claim up.

 

[WorldTraveler]

You would see it only if WN published its shopping list for the AA/US merger approvals

It is as clear as the day is long that WN walked into the DOJ and told them what WN wanted and convinced a DOJ that was ill-prepared by their own admission to fight the AA/US merger.

WN wanted AA out of DAL because WN didn't want to compete at DFW which it could have done decades ago if it wanted.

WN wanted a much larger slot portfolio at DCA and LGA and argued that only LCCs of which WN had the deepest pockets should be the only ones that should be allowed to bid for DCA and LGA slots.

WN also wanted only an LCC - all of whom are smaller than WN - to bid on DAL gates because it didn't have to compete against another legacy - namely DL.


You would have had to be blind, deaf, and dumb to what was going on to not realize and hear the specific things that were said and done that ensured that the entire WA, 5PA, and AA/US merger agreement were all carefully executed plans to concentrate power in key markets in the hands of players that couldn't succeed if they had to compete in the local market.

Given Richard Anderson's willingness to take on issues as complex as the ME3 you would have to be asleep at the wheel to think he doesn't remember being told that DL couldn't bid on assets at DCA or DAL or that he, more of a Texan than most of the execs at AA or WN, will ensure that a true Texas-sized slugfest takes place to pry N. Texas open to true competition.

 

[700UW]

No source, he is fabricating stories once again and got caught out there.

 

[WNMECH]

You would see it only if WN published its shopping list for the AA/US merger approvals

It is as clear as the day is long that WN walked into the DOJ and told them what WN wanted and convinced a DOJ that was ill-prepared by their own admission to fight the AA/US merger.

You call that proof to validate the statement you have been repeating again and again?

If you cant show where WN specifically said that, can you show where they kind of sort of said it?

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not trying the case and you aren't the judge. I'm telling you what is coming up.

AA was found guilty decades ago of trying to carve up the Dallas market. It was then with BN and now it is WN.

Both are cut out of the same fabric that loathes competition and does everything they can to run from it.

If you think that a little spat over a couple gates at DAL won't blow into exactly what I have said, then you are in for a very rude surprise.

 

[WNMECH]

It isn't a little spat over 2 gates.
 
It is a little spat over 5 flights only.
 
And if you think Delta has the slightest chance of getting access to more than those 5 flights, then YOU are the one who is in for a very rude surprise.

 

[WorldTraveler]

all the more reason for WN not to be stupid and just accommodate DL.

and it is also very possible that DL hasn't forgotten that the DOJ excluded DL from growing its DCA operation while AA/US, WN, and the DOJ all gloated that LCCs only would be allowed to bid on assets.

So, 5 flights is just the tip of the iceberg.

The entire Dallas market has been anticompetitive and orchestrated for the benefit of AA and WN for decades. DL just might have decided it is time for that to end.

let's see how it ends up but I can assure you that DL is not going to roll over and play dead.

DL let WN play its game at DAL long enough to build up a following on longhaul flights, see how well WN would do - there is abundant data now, and for WN to pull down ATL.

WN has now duly shot itself in the foot and DL is ready to feed it to them - one toe at a time.

WN has succeeded because no one has been willing to challenge them - in the market or the courtroom.

I suspect DL has decided the time has come for DL's superiority over WN in the marketplace to move to the courtroom.

 

[WNMECH]

First, 5 flights a day is the whole iceberg.

Second, Delta did not file any suit to feed anything to WN.
WN took the matter to court to let the COD comply with the gate subleases and prove the DOJ letter is not the Law.
Delta is only intervening because they don't think the DOJ will speak for Delta's interest.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you and WN WANT to believe that this is just about 5 flights per day.

Given that Mr. Anderson has gone after far larger issues that have affected DL, you might want to sit tight before you proclaim the extent of what is at stake.

The Wright Amendment and the 5PA was patently anticompetitive from the beginning. So far as I know, and no one has ever proven me wrong, no other airline that was outside of the agreement and was affected by it has ever challenged the legality of all that took place.

Given that the 5PA was essentially an agreement to eliminate longhaul restrictions on Love Field but cement WN's market share in the longhaul market at DAL while restricting its ability to compete at DFW and was signed AFTER DL pulled down its DFW hub, it was clear that the outcome if not the intent was to carve up the Dallas market between AA and WN.

The subsequent gate transfers under boht the AA/US merger and UA's decision to end DAL service further cemented the elimination of legacy carriers from DAL, exactly as the DOJ clearly wanted to take place even though there is no legal basis for dividing up access to airports based on the fares they charge. None.

WN's domination of the DAL and its ability to gain even more gate space on top of the highest percentage of gates any carrier at any airport of DAL's size or larger has ever had is nothing short of a complete abortion of justice - and the DOJ blessed it anyway.

It is precisely because the evidence is now obvious that concentration of the market between AA and WN has occurred not just at Dallas but at DCA that it is very likely that DL will make the issue about more than just 5 gates.

DL has been told not only that it could not bid on slots at DCA but also could not bid on gates at DAL.

I suspect that Richard Anderson has had enough and is willing to take as much of it to court as is necessary in order to gain meaningful access to DAL and that 5 flights is not all of the issue at all.

I'm not sure if DL will go after the issue of blocked access to DCA but that could be part of the case as well - since WN argued that it needed more access in order to provide the market with fare discipline and yet gained enough slots to become the 2nd largest carrier at DCA. There is no legal basis for arguing how large any competitor should be in the market and there is certainly no basis for saying that only supposedly low fare carriers could gain access, esp. given that WN's domestic yield in its largest markets is as high or higher than that of the legacy carriers in their top markets. WN is simply not a low fare carrier and the DOJ failed to do the research to see that. Access to DCA should have never been granted exclusively to LCCs based on their argument that they would drive down fares.

But WN is apparently not smart enough to stop at just access to allow DL to operate its 5 flights so I suspect DL is going to keep attacking the legality of one action after another that has benefitted WN and harmed or limited competitors.

 

[WNMECH]

You have been blathering about Delta filing suit about all sorts of things yet NO lawsuits exist.
 
None.
 
Delta has filed NO lawsuits to stop anything you have claimed.
 
Your record on predicting lawsuits is ZERO.
 
I will let your record speak for itself.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL is still at DAL and thus there is no basis for a lawsuit on the grounds of being denied access to DAL.

If WN is truly serious about kicking DL out of DAL, then DL has the basis.

again, none of this might not happen if DL stays at DAL and it would appear that WN is the one that will have to blink or decide they are willing to let it go thru the legal system.

if WN decides to push DL out and an order is not given to keep DL there, then I am certain the legal process will start. It's only a question of how far DL wants to push it.

 

[WNMECH]

Really?
Lets recap a little.
 
You claim Delta would sue if they didn't get to bid on the AA gates.
No bid. Delta had a basis.
NO lawsuit.
 
 
When WN got its 17th gate from UAL, you claimed Delta would sue if wasn't accommodated on at least 6 flights a day.
NO 6 flights a day, no forced accommodation. Delta had a basis.
NO lawsuit.
 
Delta has no subleases at Love field and it knows their temp deal ends on Jul 6.
And you claimed I might find how well DL can put together NATIONWIDE support for reopening the whole Wright Amendment and everything related to it and strip WN of the gates it does have at DAL and the gates they have until every carrier that wants to serve DAL has the right to be accommodated.
Delta is facing eviction, no accommodation has been promised and yet NO lawsuit filed by Delta. No nationwide campaign, NO NOTHING from Delta.
 
Don't hold your breath on those lawsuits and nationwide campaigns over 5 flight at Love.

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, may I suggest that you learn to use and understand the conditional verbs such as MAY, MIGHT, COULD, etc.

and the case is not over.

WN seems hellbent to force a conclusion and I have said that if they do push DL out based on their own actions, DL will not walk away quietly.

That is the only DEFINITE thing I have said and you can absolutely put that in the book.

DL WILL NOT walk away without a fight if WN and DAL choose to not accommodate DL at DAL.

I have provided a list of reasons why DL has a legal basis to argue against WN, DAL, and the WA and 5PA.

You would do well not to presume that because DL has not acted yet that they will not.

 

[robbedagain]

does anyone remember when he made claim DL would sue over the AA/US merger...