SWA now getting involved with slot (s) possibilities

so, since everyone else at DFW is so small, we should even bother counting any city that doesn't board as many passengers as DL does at DFW?

We could lop off a whole lot of cities - and the ramp personnel that work those markets. WN has precious few cities that board as few passengers as DL boards at many of the cities that DL now staffs with its own people.

By all means, let's use WN's station size as the threshold for whether to staff a DL city or not, right?

What a strange response. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the questions being asked (at least by me, anyway).

You've noted many times that DL kept it's #2 spot in the local DFW market post Operation Clockwork. It's a nice talking point, and I haven't seen anyone dispute that.

The question, though, is after AA, how big is/was everyone else's operation? To me, it would seem not that hard to come in second given other carriers' operation ex-DFW.
 
700UW said:
http://www.thestreet.com/story/12135260/1/amr-us-airways-merger-should-benefit-discount-airlines.html
 
Even the real experts predict a benefit for WN, funny says nothing about DL in that article.
 
And WN staffs a higher percentage of its own workers at their stations than DL does.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.
 
Oh by the way, what US based airline carries the most domestic passengers?
I know.
 
WN/FL
 
 

WN

Southwest Airlines Co.

77,160,428

DL

Delta Air Lines Inc.

66,363,986

AA

American Airlines Inc.

44,097,750

UA

United Air Lines Inc.

43,902,810

US

US Airways Inc. (Merged with America West 9/05. Reporting for both starting 10/07.)

33,719,136

EV

ExpressJet Airlines Inc.

20,044,297

B6

JetBlue Airways

17,726,861

OO

SkyWest Airlines Inc.

17,352,443

AS

Alaska Airlines Inc.

12,164,715

FL

AirTran Airways Corporation

11,592,040

MQ

American Eagle Airlines Inc.

10,865,198

9E

Endeavor Air Inc.

8,564,541

NK

Spirit Air Lines

7,129,665

F9

Frontier Airlines Inc.

6,449,030
 
And who EVER disputed the size of WN in the domestic market? Anywhere?

Despite the fact that WN carries far more passengers, DL generates a whole lot more revenue. Who is the fool for working so hard to make so little money in comparison?

Who also ever said that WN wasn't the 2nd largest airline in the metroplex.

and again Kev, if you want to lump everyone into the same category at DFW after AA, then let's do the same at every other station. And then DL's staffing model really doesn't matter if they are not #1 or of the DL station isn't large enough to support an operation the size of WN's.

The details matter, Kevin. They matter for a whole lot of people. They just don't matter when they don't fit your storyline.

I'm still waiting for one of the WN mechanics to tell us that since the 737s are all the same aircraft, they can use whatever parts and procedures on any of them.
 
WTF does staffing have to do with it?
 
If you don't want to answer the question, then just say so. I happen to think it's interesting. 
 
After all, DL being #2 at DFW for the local market is your storyline, so I'd think you'd be into "exchanging ideas" on the subject.
 


I'm still waiting for one of the WN mechanics to tell us that since the 737s are all the same aircraft, they can use whatever parts and procedures on any of them.
 
...And I'm still waiting for an answer to the question I asked of you....
 
Take out all of DL's flying International and how much would they generate?
 
WorldTraveler said:
Who is the fool for working so hard to make so little money in comparison? .
The fool who kept their stellar balance sheet and didn't go bankrupt.
That's who.

You really are making this way to easy.
 
I love how WT has now tried to use bag segregation and aircraft parts to try and defend his granular & highly selective examples of market dominance.

Must. Deflect. Attention.... ;)

And of course, it eventually comes back to an assumption that DL will gets increased access to DAL...

Never mind the fact it's far from decided, let alone likely, if DL will be allowed to increase the size of their DAL operation beyond what it is today.

When Virgin America, Spirit, Westjet, Porter and/or Jetblue show up at the table, I can see quickly a situation where DL winds up being capped at their current number of departures. Capping them doesn't lock them out anymore than local restrictions at SNA, LGB, or HPN locked some airlines from being able to serve those airports at a level they wanted to.
 
DL generated $23.8 billion in domestic revenue, about 2/3 of its total.

WN generated $17.1 B, all of which is considered domestic, even though it does include a small part of FL revenue that DL and other carriers categorize as Latin America.

DL is a larger domestic carrier in terms of revenue than WN.

oh, if you want to include DAL and DFW in the same pot, from a revenue standpoint, DL might be #3 in the total market but DL's DFW/DAL passengers spend 78% more per ticket than WN's do.

Oh, one more thing, even including AA's international operation, DL's average fare from DAL/DFW is higher than both AA and WN's. UA's is higher than DL's.

Talk about how many widgets come off your assembly line all day long if you want.

DL's employees get their profit sharing and DL stockholders get their returns based on revenue.

but those are just details to deflect from the "real" argument, right?
 
That's all pretty awesome, but I'd still like to know just how large (or not) the other carriers in spots 3/4/5/etc. for the local DFW market are (or were).
 
AA, WN, DL, US, NK based on YTD passenger boarding data for the combined DFW/DAL local market.
 
WorldTraveler said:
DL generated $23.8 billion in domestic revenue, about 2/3 of its total.

WN generated $17.1 B, all of which is considered domestic, even though it does include a small part of FL revenue that DL and other carriers categorize as Latin America.

DL is a larger domestic carrier in terms of revenue than WN.

oh, if you want to include DAL and DFW in the same pot, from a revenue standpoint, DL might be #3 in the total market but DL's DFW/DAL passengers spend 78% more per ticket than WN's do.

Oh, one more thing, even including AA's international operation, DL's average fare from DAL/DFW is higher than both AA and WN's. UA's is higher than DL's.

Talk about how many widgets come off your assembly line all day long if you want.

DL's employees get their profit sharing and DL stockholders get their returns based on revenue.

but those are just details to deflect from the "real" argument, right?
 
 
So you have proven that Delta charges more per ticket than SWA.
 
That is the "real argument" and why SWA and other LLC will get in front of the line when slots are sold in LGA and DCA.
 
DL flies to places that justify higher ticket prices.

But, yes, in markets such as ATL DL does command a revenue premium over WN. The same is true in DEN against UA in some markets and in PHL against US. That is why WN really doesn't want to compete against legacy carriers unless they can get a big enough piece of the pie. In DEN that is working. In PHL and ATL it hasn't.

DL has never said they were looking to gain slots at LGA and DCA to serve large markets. They are looking to serve small markets that would otherwise not receive service if it weren't for the legacy carriers and their smaller regional jets, a product that WN doesn't have which means that cities such as the dozen or so that FL served have to be cut because WN's aircraft are too large for those markets.

If you and your coworkers are happy working harder to get 78% less revenue per passenger than DL employees at DFW, then by all means, keep your head up.

The fact that your company wants into DCA and LGA is precisely why they realize they need access to the big NE markets that WN didn't care about until a few years ago.

Problem is that not everyone is convinced that giving a bunch of slots to low fare carriers is in the best interest of ALL of the American people.

The story is not finished.
 
WorldTraveler said:
DL flies to places that justify higher ticket prices.

But, yes, in markets such as ATL DL does command a revenue premium over WN. The same is true in DEN against UA in some markets and in PHL against US. That is why WN really doesn't want to compete against legacy carriers unless they can get a big enough piece of the pie. In DEN that is working. In PHL and ATL it hasn't.

DL has never said they were looking to gain slots at LGA and DCA to serve large markets. They are looking to serve small markets that would otherwise not receive service if it weren't for the legacy carriers and their smaller regional jets, a product that WN doesn't have which means that cities such as the dozen or so that FL served have to be cut because WN's aircraft are too large for those markets.

If you and your coworkers are happy working harder to get 78% less revenue per passenger than DL employees at DFW, then by all means, keep your head up.

The fact that your company wants into DCA and LGA is precisely why they realize they need access to the big NE markets that WN didn't care about until a few years ago.

Problem is that not everyone is convinced that giving a bunch of slots to low fare carriers is in the best interest of ALL of the American people.

The story is not finished.
 
Try reading this:
 
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2004-09-09/business/0409081285_1_grinstein-delta-air-lines-delta-director
 
It"s called working smarter.
Yes I am happy with my profit sharing and job security.
 
If DL makes so much revenue, how come WN has been profitable for 40 years straight and have the highest paid employees which are the highest percentage of unionized employees and DL isnt the highest paid and hasnt been profitable for 40 years straight, so why is that?
 
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/25/business/focus-on-costs-may-have-blurred-delta-s-vision.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
 



 


Focus on Costs May Have Blurred Delta's Vision


Indeed, despite its current profitability, Delta serves as a case study of a corporate overhaul gone awry. In trying to change an expensive, paternalistic culture -- Delta offered seven weeks of vacation to senior employees, for example, and blank-check health benefits to all -- Mr. Allen and the board may have cost the airline more than they saved it.

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''They certainly put a big dent in Delta's corporate culture and in customer perception of service standards,'' said Samuel C. Buttrick, an airline industry analyst at Paine Webber. ''Morale fell a lot further than costs did.''
 
To a large degree, Delta's problems have been masked by a strong economy that has led to prosperity for all airlines. And Mr. Allen has served as a lightning rod for much of the blame for past errors.

There are many examples, old and new:
*Following the lead of American and United in acquiring new routes across the Atlantic in 1990, Delta paid a steep premium the next year for most of Pan Am's assets, a decision that led to hundreds of millions of dollars in losses.
 
*In a recent news release about its new paint scheme for its planes, Delta boasted that it studied the issue for no less than four years before making a decision.
 
*Delta was among the last airlines to begin electronic ticketing.
 
Mr. Allen announced the results of that number crunching at a news conference on April 28, 1994. Delta would cut $2 billion, or about 16 percent, from its annual operating costs and eliminate up to 15,000 jobs. The goal was crystallized in a program called Leadership 7.5: by the middle of 1997, Delta vowed to cut its basic operating expense, measured by the industry yardstick of what it cost to fly one passenger seat one mile, to 7.5 cents, from 9.26 cents.
 


 
 
 

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