Strike?

[787nightmare]

Good post informer. No pants crapper here though, as i'm a solid no voter on this concessionary t/a. I did not authorize a strike regardless of the verbiage on the ballot. As has been stated many times, few want to strike as chaos is much more effective. In fact I witness chaos on a daily basis. I believe the concessions in place are a good enough reason for AA to keep OH maintenance. As has been said before, there're just seeing what the limits are with this t/a.
I fail to see how AA base mechanics are overpaid when virtually all major carriers actually do some heavy maintenance with the exception they have no OSM's to offset costs. Besides, nobody in the universe knows if outsourcing is cheaper.

"Besides, nobody in the universe knows if outsourcing is cheaper"

Birdman...trust me...if it wasn't, they wouldn't be doing it.

 

[Birdman]

"Good post informer"
x2

The entire costs associated with heavy maintenance is being scrutinized. AA merely is attempting to get away from any unnecessary high costs associated with maintaining there fleet. If they can get it done cheaper(and who here would deny others are getting it done cheaper here and abroad), they are going after it aggresively. So much for the "profit center" aspirations...(TULE slogan)

This airline is fast coming to the place where it can no longer afford to keep most of it's maintenance in house.
It simply must adapt to cheaper avenues to stay competitive cost-wise. The biggest mistake IMO was the FAA allowing carriers to take there maint out of the country. It was bad enough the 3rd party MRO outfits were offering heavys at cut rate deals, now we got the damn borderline 3rd world countrys to compete with.

I've thought about this stuff for a long time. And eventually, I feel like ALL heavys will perf by 3rd party MROs or done out of the country. Period. I don't see anyway around it. Line maintenance will be the only mainstay.
And thanks to TIMCO, they are trying to make inroads on that front!

Like I said before, as long as we got these guys willing to step and do your job for 15/hr...we are SCREWED.
Then THOSE guys are porked, because now, they're competing with the 5/hr El Salvadoran/Asian mechs!
Jeeezzzz...I do hope I'm wrong on all this...

I believe they majors are coming to a different conclusion than you think. Actually the costs of outsourcing have increased, causing a major reevaluation, and the quality is substandard at best causing rework upon return from the vendor. We should be in no hurry to settle this contract due to the changing environment.

 

[TWU informer]

Maybe if the TWU would spend some time and money on organinzing the Timco's of the world instead of Laberfest Parties, Drunkfest Parties, and Campaigning for Politicians who stab us in the back, we might actually stand a chance. Oh but you would have to have a decent track record in the industry first.

Birdman, waiting for the changin enviornment to end in this industry will be one hell-u-va long wait.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

"Good post informer"
x2

The entire costs associated with heavy maintenance is being scrutinized. AA merely is attempting to get away from any unnecessary high costs associated with maintaining there fleet. If they can get it done cheaper(and who here would deny others are getting it done cheaper here and abroad), they are going after it aggresively. So much for the "profit center" aspirations...(TULE slogan)

This airline is fast coming to the place where it can no longer afford to keep most of it's maintenance in house.
It simply must adapt to cheaper avenues to stay competitive cost-wise. The biggest mistake IMO was the FAA allowing carriers to take there maint out of the country. It was bad enough the 3rd party MRO outfits were offering heavys at cut rate deals, now we got the damn borderline 3rd world countrys to compete with.

I've thought about this stuff for a long time. And eventually, I feel like ALL heavys will perf by 3rd party MROs or done out of the country. Period. I don't see anyway around it. Line maintenance will be the only mainstay.
And thanks to TIMCO, they are trying to make inroads on that front!

Like I said before, as long as we got these guys willing to step and do your job for 15/hr...we are SCREWED.
Then THOSE guys are porked, because now, they're competing with the 5/hr El Salvadoran/Asian mechs!
Jeeezzzz...I do hope I'm wrong on all this...

You dont have a clue.

AA does overhaul in house because it is cheaper. If it was not cost effective they would have outsourced it a long time ago. Do you really think this company is saving your job no matter what it cost them.
I DOUBT IT

 

[WorldTraveler]

Is there really a labor productivity problem? The fact is that AA has seen a dramatic improvement in productivity, and a real one. Other carriers achieved higher rates of productivity gains per worker by sending the work out, the work still has to be done but its no longer considered a labor cost, so productivity wasnt really improved, the costs were simply transferred creating an illusion of a productivity gain. They pay an outside company to do it and those companies most certainly do it for profit, profit that comes at the expense of the airline. Some are already trying to bring more work back in house, UALs total maint costs went up when they outsourced. So in reality its impossible to say whether those workers are more productive, the operation has changed. The numbers are there but they really dont mean much. Whereas at AA we have actually brought in more work and did it with less people, thats a real productivity gain.

Bob,
the brutal reality is that AA's productivity (ASMs per employee) is about 30% less than DL and UA over the past year. It is true that AA employees do not make more than other network carrier employees but when you tack on 30% less productivity, it has a dramatic effect on costs. As for outsourcing, all of that will "come out in the wash" - the total ASM per each airline... and by that metric, AA is at a 20% CASM disadvantage to DL and CO and 10% to UA right now.... obviously, the combined UA/CO costs will increase but they will not likely rise to the levels AA has now.
The simple reality is that AA employees do not work that much harder to make up for the labor cost savings that carriers get for outsourcing other aspects of their work.... but also keep in mind that DL's lower labor costs also mean that it can more effectively compete for high value engine/component insourcing, something which DL says it makes very good money on so that what they insource is more valuable and supports higher value jobs than what they outsource.

I don't know where this will all end up w/ AA and labor - but there is no doubt that all kinds of airlines see AA's high costs as something that makes AA's revenue an easy target for others to pursue... DL is going after BOS/MIA-LHR, LGA-ORD etc... VX is increasing its presence in JFK transcons (and obtaining good revenues on AA's key transcon routes) plus SFO/LAX-DFW etc....
what should be clear is that unless AA and its labor unions figure out a way to make AA competitive in costs, other airlines will continue to pick off AA's top markets with devastating results for AA employees.
I for one hope AA and its labor can figure it out but I don't see anything on the horizon to say things are close to changing.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Add the cost of DL's outsourcing of mtc and ramp and the numbers will change. Compare apples to apples.