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Once Again The Iam Is Not Fully Informing You
- Thread starter strike facts
- Start date
if i remember correctly,some of your brethren....i mean scabs; who crossed back in '92 weren't exactly welcomed with open arms.strike facts said:
as a matter of fact they were blamed for the crisis and ridiculed if i remember correctly.
so you may wish to suck up to dave and his merry band of pranksters,but be advised...a judas is a judas is a judas.
OP
strike facts
Member
- Sep 21, 2003
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #34
Listen up to all of those who think I'm management.
At this point I am not convinced that I should walk. Why? Because the IAM is not informing a thing.
But all that aside, this deicing contracting out in PIT is disturbing. So let me say this, I am reevaluating my position. I am not dumb and I know management is a liar. The IAM has also been less than truthful. But I don't know maybe it is time to shut this company down and move on.
Let me warn anyone here from labeling anyone else. Some of us may be on the same page just different sentence. The scab talk is not impressive and I will not walk out of fear of being a scab. Trust me the scab stuff is more acceptable today than 40 years ago. If I walk it will be because of solidarity on the property...solidarity that I haven't yet seen BTW. If the IAM waits until the week before to start informing and if they do it by way of building emotion [like many on this board are doing] instead of building solidarity then I will smell a rat and cross a line quicker than a heart attack. Me and many like me. However if the IAM starts building solidarity NOW instead of this bull #### name calling then I will walk.
Whatever the case, the company is evil and this PIT deicing has got my eyes open.
stop the name calling and be patient so others may get on board, ok?
At this point I am not convinced that I should walk. Why? Because the IAM is not informing a thing.
But all that aside, this deicing contracting out in PIT is disturbing. So let me say this, I am reevaluating my position. I am not dumb and I know management is a liar. The IAM has also been less than truthful. But I don't know maybe it is time to shut this company down and move on.
Let me warn anyone here from labeling anyone else. Some of us may be on the same page just different sentence. The scab talk is not impressive and I will not walk out of fear of being a scab. Trust me the scab stuff is more acceptable today than 40 years ago. If I walk it will be because of solidarity on the property...solidarity that I haven't yet seen BTW. If the IAM waits until the week before to start informing and if they do it by way of building emotion [like many on this board are doing] instead of building solidarity then I will smell a rat and cross a line quicker than a heart attack. Me and many like me. However if the IAM starts building solidarity NOW instead of this bull #### name calling then I will walk.
Whatever the case, the company is evil and this PIT deicing has got my eyes open.
stop the name calling and be patient so others may get on board, ok?
stoopidute442
Advanced
Dude....you're still management!
OP
strike facts
Member
- Sep 21, 2003
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- #36
Typical. Neurotic workers where the enemy is behind every bush. I can promise you this much I am not management. This property is condemned, everyone hates everyone. Is solidarity in that??????stoopidute442 said:
PHL does its own thing and knows nothing about solidarity unless they lead the way. PIT can't stand us, we can't stand PIT. I have never worked with such a bunch of backbiters where all anyone cares about is themselves. Where is solidarity in that?
The company does know this and that is how they can get away with all the garbage they pull. Whatever, the IAM will play the fool and screw this thing up because they have not shown any ability to build solidarity. The IAM can talk to the media all they want about solidarity but, unless they build it, workers like me will walk across any line. That doesn't mean I feel secure with the company, it only means that the IAM has failed in its part to do anything professional or decent for its members.
The IAM is a joke and this strike thing is destined for failure because the IAM is arrogant as all get out and doesn't know a thing about building solidarity. With solidarity I picket, without it I cross. It's as simple as that. Right now I cross because I looked around and solidarity is nowhere to be found. I owe nothing to the IAM or company, both have lied and I am not 'confused'. Both continue to talk down to us.
And aparantly nobody here knows how to build solidarity and instead results to childlike name calling insults. Time will tell what happens.
strike facts,
Myself , I could care less whom you are...or what you do?
Your choice to cross is simply that , YOUR CHOICE !! The need for the tit for tat responses beyond this point is only going to serve as "Flame Bait"...and then this thread will get closed...where maybe it might actually serve a purpose for someone else....but I doubt it.
Here are some facts for you. Everytime that one inch of ground had been conceded to this leadership group...it has been used yet again as a welcome mat for them to ask or take more from the working class...this is a proven and known point to date. Hows that for a fact?
I agree that the IAM has done a poor job n taking care of its members...and it should have never ever gotten to this point , had the IAM been on the ball....heck even the better funded ALPA Folks got blind-sided on thier pension fund....only after being praised for thier leadership and willingness to take concessions....need another fact?
The fight is over the worked being farmed out...it's not a fight with the current union..or shouldn't be. Hell...lets win our work first...then we can worry about showing the IAM the door , if that's the majoritys will? Fight One battle at a time...and fight to win !!!
It's real simple " strike fact"....if WE do not stand our ground now? This place is going to be nothing but Pilots and a skeleton crew of flight attendants before it's over. The Pilots got thier dose...they are after the IAM....and the CWA and everyone else is in the cross-hairs....take it as fact...unless you need a lead wieght dropped on your head?
Myself , I could care less whom you are...or what you do?
Your choice to cross is simply that , YOUR CHOICE !! The need for the tit for tat responses beyond this point is only going to serve as "Flame Bait"...and then this thread will get closed...where maybe it might actually serve a purpose for someone else....but I doubt it.
Here are some facts for you. Everytime that one inch of ground had been conceded to this leadership group...it has been used yet again as a welcome mat for them to ask or take more from the working class...this is a proven and known point to date. Hows that for a fact?
I agree that the IAM has done a poor job n taking care of its members...and it should have never ever gotten to this point , had the IAM been on the ball....heck even the better funded ALPA Folks got blind-sided on thier pension fund....only after being praised for thier leadership and willingness to take concessions....need another fact?
The fight is over the worked being farmed out...it's not a fight with the current union..or shouldn't be. Hell...lets win our work first...then we can worry about showing the IAM the door , if that's the majoritys will? Fight One battle at a time...and fight to win !!!
It's real simple " strike fact"....if WE do not stand our ground now? This place is going to be nothing but Pilots and a skeleton crew of flight attendants before it's over. The Pilots got thier dose...they are after the IAM....and the CWA and everyone else is in the cross-hairs....take it as fact...unless you need a lead wieght dropped on your head?
CLT-Douglas
Advanced
- Feb 12, 2003
- 179
- 2
I am trying to figure out and learn more about this whole debacle from an outside perspective, and how this could happen, so don't jump on my case if any of these questions sound stupid or not supportive of the predicament you are all in.
1. When US Airways bought it's first Airbus, did IAM insist on date of purchase that heavy work on this fleet type must be performed by US Airways mechanics at a US Airways facility, or was it just assumed because it's a mainline aircraft?
2. How detailed is the term "mainline aircraft" in the contract? Does it identify by manufacturer Boeing, Airbus, Fokker, McDonnell Douglas etc. or just amount of seats and "US Airways" painted on the outside?
3. Did US Airways approve or build specific location for heavy maintenance on the Airbus when they started taking deliveries, or are current facilities good enough? If not, why let over a hundred planes be bought and five years go by with out a plan for these aircraft?
4. What if US Airways no longer owns the Airbus fleet but still operates them? Wouldn't the owner regulate or determine who does heavy maintenance on them?
5. How many Boeing aircraft are parked in the desert that are airworthy?
6. What my last two questions are getting at is, can US Airways sell an Airbus A320 to someone else such as RSA, replace the airbus with a parked Boeing 737 to keep 279 in the fleet and then once maintenance is done on the A320 switch them back again?
1. When US Airways bought it's first Airbus, did IAM insist on date of purchase that heavy work on this fleet type must be performed by US Airways mechanics at a US Airways facility, or was it just assumed because it's a mainline aircraft?
2. How detailed is the term "mainline aircraft" in the contract? Does it identify by manufacturer Boeing, Airbus, Fokker, McDonnell Douglas etc. or just amount of seats and "US Airways" painted on the outside?
3. Did US Airways approve or build specific location for heavy maintenance on the Airbus when they started taking deliveries, or are current facilities good enough? If not, why let over a hundred planes be bought and five years go by with out a plan for these aircraft?
4. What if US Airways no longer owns the Airbus fleet but still operates them? Wouldn't the owner regulate or determine who does heavy maintenance on them?
5. How many Boeing aircraft are parked in the desert that are airworthy?
6. What my last two questions are getting at is, can US Airways sell an Airbus A320 to someone else such as RSA, replace the airbus with a parked Boeing 737 to keep 279 in the fleet and then once maintenance is done on the A320 switch them back again?
I concur completely.
Unless Strike Fact is Mr. Glass or one of his cohorts, then Strike Fact is just another product of the union busting teams work hired by Dave and lead by Mr. Glass. Strike Fact makes Mr. Glass’s work easy. This is all about UNION BUSTING and if we don’t stand as ONE, they will win the war. Mr. Glass will continue his pillage in other industries were livable wages are in place. This is not capitalism as they would tell you, it’s total and complete greed in the name of capitalism. Anyone who doesn’t see these facts is woefully misinformed and right were Mr. Glass and cohorts want you. UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.
Unless Strike Fact is Mr. Glass or one of his cohorts, then Strike Fact is just another product of the union busting teams work hired by Dave and lead by Mr. Glass. Strike Fact makes Mr. Glass’s work easy. This is all about UNION BUSTING and if we don’t stand as ONE, they will win the war. Mr. Glass will continue his pillage in other industries were livable wages are in place. This is not capitalism as they would tell you, it’s total and complete greed in the name of capitalism. Anyone who doesn’t see these facts is woefully misinformed and right were Mr. Glass and cohorts want you. UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.
OP
strike facts
Member
- Sep 21, 2003
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- #40
Cavalier, wake up. The Union has already been broken. I go to work and the last thing anyone wants to talk about is the IAM because it means nothing to us.
Alot of us are dues objectors because we quit listening to the IAM long ago. You can only get so much smoke blown up your butt before you say enough. If the company is going to screw us then that's unfortunate but I refuse to give the IAM any respect or its misinformed and ignorant followers who will die for the IAM.
I doubt if the IAM can change but if it decides to build solidarity then I'm in. Cavalier face the music, your union couldn't build solidarity if solidarity smacked it on the backside.
Solidarity will give me reason to walk but it appears it was solidarity did the walking right out of town years ago on this property. One has to be a fool to go on strike without first making sure there is solidarity. Anyone striking will be screwed because 75% to 90% of fleet service, 50% of utility, and 33% of mechanics will be crossing.
All I can say to those who are following the IAM out the door. Who do you think was too dam stupid to put the right language in the contact? And you are going to put your job on the line because the IAM screwed up in its language? Read our contract.....if you think the language is there then I haven't a clue what you are reading.
And when you are out...is the IAM going to be there supporting you or collecting dues from me while I work?????????????????????????????
Alot of us are dues objectors because we quit listening to the IAM long ago. You can only get so much smoke blown up your butt before you say enough. If the company is going to screw us then that's unfortunate but I refuse to give the IAM any respect or its misinformed and ignorant followers who will die for the IAM.
I doubt if the IAM can change but if it decides to build solidarity then I'm in. Cavalier face the music, your union couldn't build solidarity if solidarity smacked it on the backside.
Solidarity will give me reason to walk but it appears it was solidarity did the walking right out of town years ago on this property. One has to be a fool to go on strike without first making sure there is solidarity. Anyone striking will be screwed because 75% to 90% of fleet service, 50% of utility, and 33% of mechanics will be crossing.
All I can say to those who are following the IAM out the door. Who do you think was too dam stupid to put the right language in the contact? And you are going to put your job on the line because the IAM screwed up in its language? Read our contract.....if you think the language is there then I haven't a clue what you are reading.
And when you are out...is the IAM going to be there supporting you or collecting dues from me while I work?????????????????????????????
pitguy
Veteran
- Aug 21, 2002
- 1,509
- 0
strike facts,
This is not about the I.A.M.. It is about OUR jobs. We are striking and others are going out with us. See you on the other side my man. You may be incapable of comprehending this.
--And you are still management and we are not falling for it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The ultimate measure of a man's not where he stands in the moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Rev. M.L. King
This is not about the I.A.M.. It is about OUR jobs. We are striking and others are going out with us. See you on the other side my man. You may be incapable of comprehending this.
--And you are still management and we are not falling for it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The ultimate measure of a man's not where he stands in the moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Rev. M.L. King
Do_it_for_Dave
Member
- Nov 20, 2002
- 78
- 0
Strike Facts, your comments are well written. You should be commended for understanding the current situation. These are difficult decisions for each member. There are thousands of unemployed mechanics that would love to have a job at the current wages. The unemployment levels are at the highest in years in this country. This it is not the time to be looking for a new job. This is not the time nor place for the IAM members to send a message to the company. The other employee groups must not support the IAM causes. If required, the IAM members must cross the picket line for the benefit of every employee. Any job action could be the downfall of this company. Providing for your families is more important than worrying about being labeled a “scabâ€. This is only a union label to instill fear in its members.
Most union workers have a history of showing solidarity. Where is the solidarity within the IAM? I see a house that is divided and unorganized. The IAM has let down its members. The employees should not give into the IAM propaganda. They want a docile and subservient mass that can be conned into letting off the occasional puff of steam to show the company that the leadership is still relevant, that it can still turn up the heat.
Yes, unions do matter. No other organizations even remotely afford workers the voice and protection that unions do within workplaces. But there is wide variability in their effectiveness. How effective was the IAM when they negotiated the last contact and concessions? You are complaining about an issue that is clearly documented in your contract and the majority voted for the contract. Do you believe the US Airways’ attorneys or the IAM? I don’t believe that Siegel would play Russian roulette with the Airbus heavy checks and risk sending the company into Chapter 7 if he did not have a strong case.
There is indeed a deep division within the IAM ranks and it is time to decide where you will stand at the end. The employees must get a clear picture of the reality that you are living. I read comments about the lack of respect and support within the IAM. What have you done to change this within your union? If you do not take responsibility for working on changing your union, you will merely end up reproducing conditions lacking solidarity. This is the difference between a leader and follower in the union ranks.
The company can’t afford any job action by the IAM and its members must fully understand this dire situation. I predict that a judge will clearly render a decision that will benefit the company. Dave Siegel is an intelligent person, he would not outsource if the contract did not have this clause.
Most union workers have a history of showing solidarity. Where is the solidarity within the IAM? I see a house that is divided and unorganized. The IAM has let down its members. The employees should not give into the IAM propaganda. They want a docile and subservient mass that can be conned into letting off the occasional puff of steam to show the company that the leadership is still relevant, that it can still turn up the heat.
Yes, unions do matter. No other organizations even remotely afford workers the voice and protection that unions do within workplaces. But there is wide variability in their effectiveness. How effective was the IAM when they negotiated the last contact and concessions? You are complaining about an issue that is clearly documented in your contract and the majority voted for the contract. Do you believe the US Airways’ attorneys or the IAM? I don’t believe that Siegel would play Russian roulette with the Airbus heavy checks and risk sending the company into Chapter 7 if he did not have a strong case.
There is indeed a deep division within the IAM ranks and it is time to decide where you will stand at the end. The employees must get a clear picture of the reality that you are living. I read comments about the lack of respect and support within the IAM. What have you done to change this within your union? If you do not take responsibility for working on changing your union, you will merely end up reproducing conditions lacking solidarity. This is the difference between a leader and follower in the union ranks.
The company can’t afford any job action by the IAM and its members must fully understand this dire situation. I predict that a judge will clearly render a decision that will benefit the company. Dave Siegel is an intelligent person, he would not outsource if the contract did not have this clause.
Dilligas
Veteran
With sincere apologies to Carole King:
Stayed online all morning just to pass the time
There's something wrong here
There can be no denying
One of us is changing
Or maybe we've just stopped trying
And it's too late Davey, now it's too late
Though we really did try to make it
Something inside has died and I can't hide
And I just can't fake it
It used to be so easy living here before you
You were light and breezy
And I knew just what to do
Now you look so unhappy
And I feel like a fool
And it's too late Davey, now it's too late
Though we really did try to make it
Something inside has died
and I can't hide it
And I just can't fake it
There'll be good times again for me, #$%# you,
But we just can't stay together
Don't you feel it too
Still I'm glad for what we had
And how I once loved "U"
And it's too late Davey, now it's too late
Though we really did try to make it
Something inside has died and
I can't hide it I just can't fake it
Don't you know that I...
I just can't fake it
Oh it's too late Davey
Too late Davey
You know
It's too late my Davey
Stayed online all morning just to pass the time
There's something wrong here
There can be no denying
One of us is changing
Or maybe we've just stopped trying
And it's too late Davey, now it's too late
Though we really did try to make it
Something inside has died and I can't hide
And I just can't fake it
It used to be so easy living here before you
You were light and breezy
And I knew just what to do
Now you look so unhappy
And I feel like a fool
And it's too late Davey, now it's too late
Though we really did try to make it
Something inside has died
and I can't hide it
And I just can't fake it
There'll be good times again for me, #$%# you,
But we just can't stay together
Don't you feel it too
Still I'm glad for what we had
And how I once loved "U"
And it's too late Davey, now it's too late
Though we really did try to make it
Something inside has died and
I can't hide it I just can't fake it
Don't you know that I...
I just can't fake it
Oh it's too late Davey
Too late Davey
You know
It's too late my Davey
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Dilligas,
Once again, LOL...you make me smile. Where you come up with this stuff, I will never know...
Strike Facts,
First, be smart, and stop with the "back peddling" already. We know who you are. At least Do-it-for-Davey doesn't dispute for a second he is mangement.
Second, when you come on here and switch positions, makes you look even worse.
Third, languge is very crystal clear...the WORK belongs in house and with the mechanics.
fourth, I believe the issue of deicing has been resolved, and it too will stay "in house".
Fifth, Best to be silent...your looking real bad when you totally focus on slamming IAM members and saying they do not have solidarity. You have a condition called "wannabe Jerry-freggin-union-busting Glass", when you come on here screaming IAM is bad.
Finally, you better tell management to be ready to shut off the lights on their way out of the crystal palace, cause there is more solidarity among the employees of U than you and your "anit-union" brain could possibly dream.
Once again, LOL...you make me smile. Where you come up with this stuff, I will never know...
Strike Facts,
First, be smart, and stop with the "back peddling" already. We know who you are. At least Do-it-for-Davey doesn't dispute for a second he is mangement.
Second, when you come on here and switch positions, makes you look even worse.
Third, languge is very crystal clear...the WORK belongs in house and with the mechanics.
fourth, I believe the issue of deicing has been resolved, and it too will stay "in house".
Fifth, Best to be silent...your looking real bad when you totally focus on slamming IAM members and saying they do not have solidarity. You have a condition called "wannabe Jerry-freggin-union-busting Glass", when you come on here screaming IAM is bad.
Finally, you better tell management to be ready to shut off the lights on their way out of the crystal palace, cause there is more solidarity among the employees of U than you and your "anit-union" brain could possibly dream.
PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR
i hate to tell you that the IAM employees aren't going to cross as you wish...oh there may be a showing for whatever their cause is...but i must tell you your true fear is all over your post...yes you have a deep concern that this may and will result in something that will leave the company in a "non-revenue state".take it to the bank...ALL UNIONS ARE ON BOARD TO DEFY THIS ANTI-CONTRACT ACTION AND THIS WILL NOT BE THE LAST TIME THIS HAPPENS!!!!ANY AND ALL ANTI-CONTRACT ACTIONS TO ANY OTHER LABOR GROUP SHALL AND WILL BE DEALT WITH THE SEVEREST SOLIDARITY...TAKE IT TO THE BANK AND WHILE YOU'RE THERE...TELL DAVE AND JERRY!
ALL UNIONS ARE PREPARED TO MAKE ONE LAST STAND AGAINST THIS DEFIANCE OF NEGOTIATED AGREEMENTS.
i suggest you get your duckies in a row my friend...its going to be "wonderful"...
why are the davey sucks now posting these fearful doom and gloom posts?get your personal things in order my friend...for we are prepared to liquidate the airline no matter what...it has come to this because bronner and dave have elected this....cry to them if it makes you feel secure in you job.
AND THIS DEEP DIVISION?..AH HA HA ...THE IAM/AMFA DEBATE IS NULL AT THIS POINT....WE ARE UNITED TO DO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO.MAKE SURE YOU TELL : DAVE TOMORROW,PLEASE..
IF THE COMPANY CANNOT AFFORD ANY JOB ACTION,WELL THEY BEST GET SOME HANGAR SPACE ASAP...JUST LIKE A HURRICANE...ITS OUT THERE AND ITS COMMING...TAKE IT TO THE BANK! :bleh: :rant:
:rant:
i hate to tell you that the IAM employees aren't going to cross as you wish...oh there may be a showing for whatever their cause is...but i must tell you your true fear is all over your post...yes you have a deep concern that this may and will result in something that will leave the company in a "non-revenue state".take it to the bank...ALL UNIONS ARE ON BOARD TO DEFY THIS ANTI-CONTRACT ACTION AND THIS WILL NOT BE THE LAST TIME THIS HAPPENS!!!!ANY AND ALL ANTI-CONTRACT ACTIONS TO ANY OTHER LABOR GROUP SHALL AND WILL BE DEALT WITH THE SEVEREST SOLIDARITY...TAKE IT TO THE BANK AND WHILE YOU'RE THERE...TELL DAVE AND JERRY!
ALL UNIONS ARE PREPARED TO MAKE ONE LAST STAND AGAINST THIS DEFIANCE OF NEGOTIATED AGREEMENTS.
i suggest you get your duckies in a row my friend...its going to be "wonderful"...
why are the davey sucks now posting these fearful doom and gloom posts?get your personal things in order my friend...for we are prepared to liquidate the airline no matter what...it has come to this because bronner and dave have elected this....cry to them if it makes you feel secure in you job.
AND THIS DEEP DIVISION?..AH HA HA ...THE IAM/AMFA DEBATE IS NULL AT THIS POINT....WE ARE UNITED TO DO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO.MAKE SURE YOU TELL : DAVE TOMORROW,PLEASE..
IF THE COMPANY CANNOT AFFORD ANY JOB ACTION,WELL THEY BEST GET SOME HANGAR SPACE ASAP...JUST LIKE A HURRICANE...ITS OUT THERE AND ITS COMMING...TAKE IT TO THE BANK! :bleh: :rant:
:rant:
