Strike?

[Mr Red]

Why don't you go ahead and start by booking on another forum? We, that actually work as mech, would be thrilled... B)

I second that !!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Travel is a big part of my livelihood, and my time is very valuable.

And thats why you spend it here.

 

[Rogallo]

And thats why you spend it here.

 

[Birdman]

And thats why you spend it here.

This is the perfect place to actually find out whats going on inside American Airlines. If I were a savvy frequent traveler loyal to one particular airline, I might spend a little hobby time making sure my future bookings were secure and even inject my personal opinions once in a while. If FFCA is a real frequent flier then thank him for his business and if just a corporAAte compAAny man incognito, your not going to get this kind of 411 from your managers and supervisors.

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip
and my time is very valuable.
... snip

Cool - sell some on FleaBay, note how much you get for it, and get back with us ...

 

[Frank Szabo]

The topic of this thread, actually poll, was how many will walk if a strike is called.

Question for all - There is an organization drive going on to install AMP, as we're all aware. If enough people sign cards (show of interest) to call an election (50% + 1 requirement), how many of those people would feel an obligation to actually walk out if the TWU calls a strike?

Wouldn't walking out for Little Jimmy constitute faith in the TWU line of crap?

 

[Birdman]

The topic of this thread, actually poll, was how many will walk if a strike is called.

Question for all - There is an organization drive going on to install AMP, as we're all aware. If enough people sign cards (show of interest) to call an election (50% + 1 requirement), how many of those people would feel an obligation to actually walk out if the TWU calls a strike?

Wouldn't walking out for Little Jimmy constitute faith in the TWU line of crap?

I would hope all of them would. Being a scab is far worse than the perception that your putting your faith in the TWU.

 

[TWU informer]

This thread is a complete joke. If AA Management asked the NMB to grant the TWU request for a cooling off period and then the same TA was voted again, the TWU would fold up like a cheap tent and the big puffer fish that voted NO would crap their pants. I bet Jim Little would sign this same agreement without further ratification before any strike would actually happen. Just look at the fear generated by AMP Organizers threatening the TWU dues base. You honestly think Jim Little would risk it all over this TA? Most NO voters I talk with are not one bit interested in a Strike and if the 30 clock was running, they would cave and run for the hills. As soon as this company calls the union bluff, the ashes will fall like another Mt St Helen eruption.

The fact is the Line AMT is being offered below market rates for their duties.
And the Overhaul AMT is being offered above market rates for theri duties.
The problem is how do you address this and be true to union seniority.

Nobody in the Union has the balls to speak about this fact, and apparently nobody in the union has a solution to this problem. But until somebody open and honestly speaks to the problem, then we are all just acting on emotion instead of truthful facts.

But once a 30 day cooling off period begins and the threat of strike happens, those overhaul mechanics will change their tune and their votes real quick. The line guys might still take a stand. But I honestly don't see how the overhaul mechanic would fair much better in a PEB, Binding Arbitration, or a strike. If the cost of doing their in-house overhaul exceeds the value of control then AA would just get out of the overhaul business and move on. Then seniority rules and many line mechanics will lose out. What a delima we are faced with here, and everyone seems to ignore the truth and babble their emotions like water flowing down the Mississippi River.

Many of you are not going to like this post. But those are the facts as I see them. And as always, I do have the balls to say what's on my mind.

Just Sayin...

 

[787nightmare]

This thread is a complete joke. If AA Management asked the NMB to grant the TWU request for a cooling off period and then the same TA was voted again, the TWU would fold up like a cheap tent and the big puffer fish that voted NO would crap their pants. I bet Jim Little would sign this same agreement without further ratification before any strike would actually happen. Just look at the fear generated by AMP Organizers threatening the TWU dues base. You honestly think Jim Little would risk it all over this TA? Most NO voters I talk with are not one bit interested in a Strike and if the 30 clock was running, they would cave and run for the hills. As soon as this company calls the union bluff, the ashes will fall like another Mt St Helen eruption.

The fact is the Line AMT is being offered below market rates for their duties.
And the Overhaul AMT is being offered above market rates for theri duties.
The problem is how do you address this and be true to union seniority.

Nobody in the Union has the balls to speak about this fact, and apparently nobody in the union has a solution to this problem. But until somebody open and honestly speaks to the problem, then we are all just acting on emotion instead of truthful facts.

But once a 30 day cooling off period begins and the threat of strike happens, those overhaul mechanics will change their tune and their votes real quick. The line guys might still take a stand. But I honestly don't see how the overhaul mechanic would fair much better in a PEB, Binding Arbitration, or a strike. If the cost of doing their in-house overhaul exceeds the value of control then AA would just get out of the overhaul business and move on. Then seniority rules and many line mechanics will lose out. What a delima we are faced with here, and everyone seems to ignore the truth and babble their emotions like water flowing down the Mississippi River.

Many of you are not going to like this post. But those are the facts as I see them. And as always, I do have the balls to say what's on my mind.

"But once a 30 day cooling off period begins and the threat of strike happens, those overhaul mechanics will change their tune and their votes real quick. The line guys might still take a stand. But I honestly don't see how the overhaul mechanic would fair much better in a PEB, Binding Arbitration, or a strike"

You pretty much speaketh the truth here. Everybody in AA maintenance systemwide(and ind), knows TULE is the swing vote in every single contract negotiated. Which is why the line guys pretty much stay pissed off at them.
Even the AFW guys don't care for the TULE mechs. But that largely stems from AFW being anti-TWU back in AMFA card drive a few years back.
IMO the American mechanics will NEVER get a great contract until the TULE guys man-up, and stand/hold the line with the flightline AMTs at AA. American and the TWU are keenly aware of the Tulsa employment/cost of living situation(ie job starved area) and work in collusion to intimidate, coerse and cajole a substandard, conscessionary contract on the AMTs at American. Not ridiculing anyone, just calling it as I've seen it over the years while observing over the yrs, and working there in TULE for yr and a half.
Also, American would have fits trying to get that HUGE fleet of aircrafts' heavys accomplished at 3rd party MROs. That's the reason WN does some of there own. There simply isn't space/facilities available to accomadate there aircraft. Unless...they spun TULE, AFW off.

 

[TWU informer]

As it pertains to the rejected TA.
Do you disagree that

The Overhaul AMT was being offered above market rates for their duties?
while
The Line AMT was being offered below market rates for their duties?

I think AA Management was offering the Overhaul AMT above market rates, and was planning to offset that overage with the lower paid SMA Classification. Some argue the OSM payrates are a larger advantage for management. I tend to think most of those OSM duties could be outsourced for about the same rate as their lower payrate.

We tend to use their pay to average down management cost to overhaul in total. I think AA Management actually breakdown these functions into in-house versus outsrouce comaprison. And now the overhaul AMT is being compared to the outsource facilities also.

It appears AA Management was willing to allow the current Overhaul AMT to continue above market rates and allow attrition as long as cost lowering averages using the new classification payrates were in place. This was poorly communicated if this was indeed the plan.

I am just assuiming since the TWU holds secret negotiations and none of us really know what the hell was being discussed. Even most of the negotiators were not present when discussions were taking place with management.

I am firm in my belief that if the overhaul cost exceed the benefit of in-house control then AA will exit the overhaul business. There are some indications and rumors that that transistion has already begun.

Just Sayin...

 

[Birdman]

Good post informer. No pants crapper here though, as i'm a solid no voter on this concessionary t/a. I did not authorize a strike regardless of the verbiage on the ballot. As has been stated many times, few want to strike as chaos is much more effective. In fact I witness chaos on a daily basis. I believe the concessions in place are a good enough reason for AA to keep OH maintenance. As has been said before, there're just seeing what the limits are with this t/a.
I fail to see how AA base mechanics are overpaid when virtually all major carriers actually do some heavy maintenance with the exception they have no OSM's to offset costs. Besides, nobody in the universe knows if outsourcing is cheaper.

 

[BigMac]

...snip
Some argue the OSM payrates are a larger advantage for management. I tend to think most of those OSM duties could be outsourced for about the same rate as their lower payrate.
...snip

Yep, same could be said about welders, parts washers and a/c cleaners. :blink:

 

[TWU informer]

Yep, same could be said about welders, parts washers and a/c cleaners. :blink:

I agree and that has been taking place for sometime now. 1994 there were 185 Welders on the Tulsa Base. Today there are less than 100. That is why most welders I know voted yes and have no interest in a strike. I worked part time last spring on AA parts at a vendor working on AA heat exchangers. I was paid $17.25 per hour and a buzzer went off at breaks and lunches. Also there was lead man walking the floor and anyone that stopped working to have a chat with a coworker was quickly interrupted and back to work.

Interesting that the CFM-56 Enignes were 100% outsourced last fall. Well over 100 Grievances were filed. More would have been filed but the TWU claimed this was tunred into a Presidential Grievance so many faield to submit before stpe 2 time limits expired. I cannot find anyone who can prove there is a Presidential Grievance pending on this issue. The TWU wouldn't have lied to the members, would they? Apparently the TWU has weak scope language and cannot protect the work on the property.

This is why I beleive the 30 day clock will change votes in Tulsa.

 

[787nightmare]

"Good post informer"
x2

The entire costs associated with heavy maintenance is being scrutinized. AA merely is attempting to get away from any unnecessary high costs associated with maintaining there fleet. If they can get it done cheaper(and who here would deny others are getting it done cheaper here and abroad), they are going after it aggresively. So much for the "profit center" aspirations...(TULE slogan)

This airline is fast coming to the place where it can no longer afford to keep most of it's maintenance in house.
It simply must adapt to cheaper avenues to stay competitive cost-wise. The biggest mistake IMO was the FAA allowing carriers to take there maint out of the country. It was bad enough the 3rd party MRO outfits were offering heavys at cut rate deals, now we got the damn borderline 3rd world countrys to compete with.

I've thought about this stuff for a long time. And eventually, I feel like ALL heavys will perf by 3rd party MROs or done out of the country. Period. I don't see anyway around it. Line maintenance will be the only mainstay.
And thanks to TIMCO, they are trying to make inroads on that front!

Like I said before, as long as we got these guys willing to step and do your job for 15/hr...we are SCREWED.
Then THOSE guys are porked, because now, they're competing with the 5/hr El Salvadoran/Asian mechs!
Jeeezzzz...I do hope I'm wrong on all this...

 

[787nightmare]

"Apparently the TWU has weak scope language and cannot protect the work on the property." TWUInformer

No doubt, would qualify as the understatement of the year...