SPONTANIOUS COMBUSTION

[Nightwatch]

My decision to take part in the ouster of the TWU at AA is based on their failure to maintain a leadership position with respect to wages and working conditions in the Aviation Industry. This Union cannot claim the highest industry wage, the best benefits, or the best working conditions for the Maintenance & Related Class and Craft.

Boomer, first I'd like to state that I do understand your disgust. I also am disgusted. I am disgusted that our country is allowing the middle class working people to be slowly decimated.

If this was 1965 ,and the TWU performed as they do today, then perhaps you and I would be standing side by side on these issues. This is not the day of the unions thinking with their brawn, now it is a chess game to attempt to retain our employment stateside. This sucks, many of us are from the "old school" and hate the change that is required. 10 years ago I would never had thought we would be reading a "Joint Communications" letter on base.

Our industry is just like that of the IT world, our work is going overseas or to stateside 3rd party vendors. AA brags that they keep our work inhouse for the most part, how long are they going to be able to do this and be competitive with those that have sent the AMT's packing down the highway.

Do I lay blame on AMFA, no. Nor do I blame the TWU, the IBT, the AFL-CIO. I blame our politicians that are being fed bigbucks by big business. One of these days there will be no one in the US to purchase those Amana refrigerators or other items that support our tax structure. I really feel for my children's future. I read an article a while back that stated our children will have to change their professions THREE TIMES before they retire. Now, that was profession, not job location.

AMFA cannot lay claim to the highest industry wage, the best benefits, or the best working conditions for the Maintenance & Related Class and Craft, either.

I read all the time..."how much are you willing to give up?"... That point is obvious, when my family is affected to the point I must alter our lifestyle, then I will react. So far, this is still the best job in town.

 

[Bob Owens]

Boomer, first I'd like to state that I do understand your disgust. I also am disgusted. I am disgusted that our country is allowing the middle class working people to be slowly decimated.

Funny but I always thought that the unions claimed that they elevated the working class to the middle class through collective bargaining and strikes. So its "the countrys" fault now, not the unions that took our money and did nothing to stop it.

If this was 1965 ,and the TWU performed as they do today, then perhaps you and I would be standing side by side on these issues. This is not the day of the unions thinking with their brawn, now it is a chess game to attempt to retain our employment stateside.

Oh yes, I see it now, you feel that all the politicians banks and businessmen want us to all be unemployed. Sitting idle. I thought they simply wanted us to work for less. Easy for you to play chess when you live in one of the lowest cost areas of the country.

This sucks, many of us are from the "old school" and hate the change that is required. 10 years ago I would never had thought we would be reading a "Joint Communications" letter on base.

Welcome to the TWU. This is not new for us, its been that way since at least 1986.


Our industry is just like that of the IT world, our work is going overseas or to stateside 3rd party vendors.

Do you mean non-union? How are they going to do a gate call in NY or MIA or LAX from Singapore? I thought that since we were all in a union that our ability to do gate calls should be a means by which we could demand that the company keep your job in house and union. Ah but thats assuming that the union has a pair and is willing to fight.

AA brags that they keep our work inhouse for the most part, how long are they going to be able to do this and be competitive with those that have sent the AMT's packing down the highway.

As long as the TWU keeps lowering wages. The only problem is that AA might be able to keep the work in house but will the work get done on the line? Without the money coming in on the line there is no need for overhaul. How low are you willing to go before you are willing to fight?

Do I lay blame on AMFA, no. Nor do I blame the TWU, the IBT, the AFL-CIO. I blame our politicians that are being fed bigbucks by big business.

Do you blame a wolf for being a wolf? No you just shoot it. But if the Sheepdog was sleeping while the wolf was eating your sheeep you should shoot it too.

One of these days there will be no one in the US to purchase those Amana refrigerators or other items that support our tax structure. I really feel for my children's future. I read an article a while back that stated our children will have to change their professions THREE TIMES before they retire. Now, that was profession, not job location.

And they will blame the generation that came before for not fighting when they should have. And they will be right. How did earlier generations get what we gave up? They fought for it. Was it easy? No. Were they threatened with job loss? Yes. But they fought anyway.

AMFA cannot lay claim to the highest industry wage, the best benefits, or the best working conditions for the Maintenance & Related Class and Craft, either.

True, that goes to UPS. However the TWU says that we should not compare ourselves to UPS and due to the fact that the Teamster are AFL-CIO we can not go to them either. The Teamsters does not have much respect for the TWU either.

I read all the time..."how much are you willing to give up?"... That point is obvious, when my family is affected to the point I must alter our lifestyle, then I will react. So far, this is still the best job in town.

Well brother that point has been passed for the people who keep the planes moving on a daily basis on flights that generate the income used to pay you. In other words what you are saying is "I got mine and I could care less about anyone else".

 

[Nightwatch]

Funny but I always thought that the unions claimed that they elevated the working class to the middle class through collective bargaining and strikes. So its "the countrys" fault now, not the unions that took our money and did nothing to stop it.


Economy dictates, changes in company business management dictates, there are numerous events that dictate the direction of our profession and the earning power of the working class.

Oh yes, I see it now, you feel that all the politicians banks and businessmen want us to all be unemployed. Sitting idle. I thought they simply wanted us to work for less. Easy for you to play chess when you live in one of the lowest cost areas of the country.


Oh no, you don't see how I feel. You might suggest to others you know how i feel, they might even buy into it, but you have no idea how I fell, it's true, you are a mere mortal. The stockholders care about one thing, money. They do not care about you or me. And yes Bob, it is great to live where I live, we pigfarmers enjoy the hell out of knowing you pay so much money for so little room, fact is, our piglets laugh at you and your high cost of living.

As long as the TWU keeps lowering wages. The only problem is that AA might be able to keep the work in house but will the work get done on the line? Without the money coming in on the line there is no need for overhaul. How low are you willing to go before you are willing to fight?


The TWU did not lower your wage, the TWU does not pay your wage. Another newsflash for the line mantality. Will the work get done on the line? You tell me. When my piglets start going hungry I will fight, not one oink less.

Well brother that point has been passed for the people who keep the planes moving on a daily basis on flights that generate the income used to pay you. In other words what you are saying is "I got mine and I could care less about anyone else".



Well brother, are you stating that you want me to shed a tear for the line mechanic that lays blame to the poor ignorant pig farmer? We care Bob, can't you tell?

 

[RUM@AA]

IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING TO GO ON!!!!!! AMFA HAS NO ASSETS!!!! HELL, THEY CAN'T EVEN KEEP THERE WORKFORCE IN TACT! FAMOUS LAST WORDS. . .BANKRUPTCY IS THE BETTER WAY TO GO!!!!

I hate to name-call but you are are real idiot.

Hey Einstien, did you know that SWA's mechanic head count has gone UP since AMFA won there? Same with Alaska AND ACA.

You see, AMFA doesn't HAVE TO be the same at all airlines.
BUT...
If you want to play that game, tell us what happened to all those TWU represented mechanics at PAN AM.

And what about all those TWU represented Flight Attendants at EASTERN AIRLINES?

100% unemployment thanks to TWU representation.

Nice going bonehead. :down:

 

[Bob Owens]

Economy dictates, changes in company business management dictates, there are numerous events that dictate the direction of our profession and the earning power of the working class.

Spoken like a true TWU man. In other words everyone else but the union dictates. The fact is that the TWU has even been outperformed by the minimum wage as far as keeping up with inflation. Why are we paying dues again, oh yea somebody has to pay for their facy digs up on Broadway.

Oh no, you don't see how I feel. You might suggest to others you know how i feel, they might even buy into it, but you have no idea how I fell, it's true, you are a mere mortal. The stockholders care about one thing, money. They do not care about you or me. And yes Bob, it is great to live where I live, we pigfarmers enjoy the hell out of knowing you pay so much money for so little room, fact is, our piglets laugh at you and your high cost of living.

As you said "The economy dictates". Whether you want to admit it or not the fact is that the money that goes into your paychecks are generated in places like this, not in the middle of the prarie. As long as that is the case the company will have to have workers here. They may be able to ship your jobs to Singapore or TIMCO but they will still have workers here. Your best protection is not how low you can go, because Singapore will even be lower than Missouri, its the fact that your brothers out here on the line can shut the company down.

The TWU did not lower your wage, the TWU does not pay your wage.


The TWU did lower our wage when they signed into effect, without further ratification, this contract.

Well brother, are you stating that you want me to shed a tear for the line mechanic that lays blame to the poor ignorant pig farmer? We care Bob, can't you tell?

Poor and ignorant? Whoever said that? I think you have a complex.

OK Brother, then tell me when AA announces they are closing MCI how far should I be willing to go to protect you and your jobs? Your union "mantality" is shining through again.

 

[scorpion]

Bob
thats one thing these idiots don't realize is that the line stations are our biggest ally, not all people here in Tulsa have this non union mentality but it is prevailent. What these people don't understand is by 2009 their pay will be the equivalent of a construction worker and this above average lifestyle that the line stations have help them achieve in the years past will be gone. These homeboys are insulated from the real world and I do apologize for their ignorance.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob
thats one thing these idiots don't realize is that the line stations are our biggest ally, not all people here in Tulsa have this non union mentality but it is prevailent. What these people don't understand is by 2009 their pay will be the equivalent of a construction worker and this above average lifestyle that the line stations have help them achieve in the years past will be gone. These homeboys are insulated from the real world and I do apologize for their ignorance.

Scorpian:

The truth is that if we on the line were living like those in Tulsa there would be no drive for AMFA.

The fact that the guys can still live comfortably and have no knowledge or concern for their brothers on the line is a reflection and result of the poor leadership of the TWU. Sure members should take some responsibility for themselves but the fact is they pay the TWU to inform and lead.

What the boys in Tulsa should know is that the greatest threat they face now is the fact that if the company wanted to decertify the TWU nobody on the line would defend this union. If the company were to do that they could get rid of overhaul and would not even have to allow you guys to bump to the line.

SWA already proved that they can pay top wages and run an efficient and profitable airline without much of an overhaul capacity.

What overhaul fails to see, in no doubt thanks to the poor leadership of the International, is that their bargaining power is enhanced by Line Maintenance, Fleet service and Airline Economics.

Airline economics give us an advantage. That advantage is minimized by the RLA but it is still there. Unlike manufactureres who can build up inventory and then cease production to reduce expenses, thereby increasing their ability to wait out a strike, the airlines have a difficult time reducing costs even when their planes are not flying. Sure they save fuel and wages but the other costs are still staggeringly high.

Over the last twenty years the airlines have become incredibly large. Consolidation is typical for a maturing industry. With thier incredible size, and demand for skilled workers and other workers with a criminal free ten year background the task of replacing a striking workforce in the tens of thousands, even now with a poor economy is daunting. Workers in this industry still have an enviable advantage when it comes to a work stoppage. It is our union that fails to consider this. Instead they would rather work with the company to increase dues at the expense of wages.

The fact that the TWU now earns more through other sources than dues could be a reason why the TWU is so corporate friendly. It pays better dividends. The dues are pretty much captive, they get them no matter how little they do for us, they get it unconditionally, but by helping corporations they can see a better return on their investments. They can create conditions that help increase the value of their holdings. They also get financial aid from our company to the tune of $3.1 million a year, this aid is conditional since there is no language forcing the company to provide this support.

The behavior of the TWU is strange for a "Union". Its normal for a company, especially one that may be in distress to make outrageous threats. Its highly unusual for a "Union" to expand on those threats like the TWU did. They did this when they claimed that AA might go straight into liquidation if we did not submit to the precedent setting concessions. Even company officials admitted that liquidation was not on the horizon.

The combination of earnings off investments, the conditional financial support from the company and the added bonus of the possibility that our concessions could help speed up the demise of other carriers and leave AA in a position to expand into the vacuum left in the market (thereby increasing the membership and dues of the TWU) could explain the TWUs actions. The undemocratic structure of the TWU isulates those in positions of power who may rationalize their betrayal of labor by thinking that in the long run, as painful as it may be (a pain that they do not share in) that the labor movement will be in a better position when the majority of the industry is in one union, the TWU of course.

The point is that we can not afford to fund the TWUs dream. Those in Tulsa should realize that by the time they feel the squeeze the line will have been destroyed and they will no longer be afforded protection from it. As it is now they are already at risk but the damage is not permanent, it can be fixed, with the right leadership. As low as they think they can go, Singapore and TIMCO can go lower. While at present they can afford to live in blissful ignorance their failure to look a little beyond will undoubtably result in a future disaster.

Good luck.

 

[Checking it Out]

Nightwatch, I doubt if you will find the wannabes know or care enough to show the positives of Amfa. Most have limited thought patterns. Help us all if they had to represent anyone at AA.

 

[Nightwatch]

Nightwatch, I doubt if you will find the wannabes know or care enough to show the positives of Amfa. Most have limited thought patterns. Help us all if they had to represent anyone at AA.

Yeah I know, I can see it now..."So what if the TWU has been gone a few years! It's their fault and always will be theirs. AMFA does no wrong, now repeat after me...AMFA does no wrong....doh!"

 

[cheetah]

tell me, why do NWA mechanics get better pay,more vacation, better sick pay and many more holidays? Ill answer myself,BETTER UNION!! is it that hard for you TWU guys to see that???

 

[Nightwatch]

tell me, why do NWA mechanics get better pay,more vacation, better sick pay and many more holidays? Ill answer myself,BETTER UNION!! is it that hard for you TWU guys to see that???

Wrong, it's because there are only 5 members left...doh!....but , you too may enjoy their next life at GET YOUR LIFE TOGETHER.COM

 

[Buck]

Only 5 members left?

Well there goes the strength in numbers theory of the industrial unions

 

[Nightwatch]

Only 5 members left?

Well there goes the strength in numbers theory of the industrial unions

I believe it proves the strength in numbers theory to be correct.

 

[Bob Owens]

I believe it proves the strength in numbers theory to be correct.

Didnt we just witness the strength in numbers theory in action last year as each union stood by and watched each others members getting fleeced?


Tell us what the AFL-CIO advantage was.

Our Pilots took a 25% pay cut but they already got over 9% back. They got back more already than we will the entire term of the contract.

When you factor in Holidays, vacation, sick time etc we took more than a 25% pay cut.

So how come this non-affiliated union did better than we did?

 

[Checking it Out]

Didnt we just witness the strength in numbers theory in action last year as each union stood by and watched each others members getting fleeced?


Tell us what the AFL-CIO advantage was.

Our Pilots took a 25% pay cut but they already got over 9% back. They got back more already than we will the entire term of the contract.

When you factor in Holidays, vacation, sick time etc we took more than a 25% pay cut.

So how come this non-affiliated union did better than we did?

Has to do with 47.1% of the jobs eliminated with more to come.