Hey Twu - I've Got Answers To Your Mailout

[MCI AFL-CIO]

[:

Dan,

Since you seem to be the advocate of the lesser skilled, can you tell me why a title 2 cabin cleaner with 17 years makes $7.76 an hour and has to pay dues to the twu for this?


Im not aware this is true? please refresh for us, I beleive according to the contract, isnt it more than that? If Im wrong I apologize, but last I heard title 2 cabin cleaner making was closer or maybe over $20.00, I will find out for sure and get back to you, Thanks for the homework Dan

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

[]

Dave, just a possibility? but also could be a reality...........NW contract expires may11 2005............whats the chances that under the current procedures, AA/TWU we could conceivably secure a contract before AMFA/NW? something to think about

 

[RV4]

TWU has negotiated successfully for over 60 years

Out of all the things you have said, this stands out more than anything. If you think 20 years of Leading the Industry in Concessions is considered "successful", then without a doubt, you will not be happy with AMFA.

And before you go telling lies about AMFA and their Safety and Standards Representatives regarding Alaska Flight 261, you best read this:

http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/06_News&Info...61_12-10-02.pdf

God rest those that perished, and hopefully TWU supporters will out of respect, leave them out of the debate from here forward.

For AMFA's Safety and Standard submissions regarding FLight 261, click below:

http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/11_Safety&St...NTSB8-15-02.pdf

 

[RV4]

Dave, just a possibility? but also could be a reality...........NW contract expires may11 2005............whats the chances that under the current procedures, AA/TWU we could conceivably secure a contract before AMFA/NW? something to think about

Assuming the unlikely, which is the TWU is still on the property, these anwers will apply.

If the TWU offers more concessions, sure they could secure another contract in record time as usual.

If the TWU wants to get back all that was lost, prepare for extended negotiations. This goes for AMFA on AA property also. Regaining what was just lost, is NOT going to be easy.

Why do TWU enthusiast think speed of neogtiations matters? If you study and research negotiations under the Railway Labor Act, success never cmoes with speed.

Ask the TWU Southwest Flight Attendants.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Dan,

Since you seem to be the advocate of the lesser skilled, can you tell me why a title 2 cabin cleaner with 17 years makes $7.76 an hour and has to pay dues to the twu for this?


Im not aware this is true? please refresh for us, I beleive according to the contract, isnt it more than that? If Im wrong I apologize, but last I heard title 2 cabin cleaner making was closer or maybe over $20.00, I will find out for sure and get back to you, Thanks for the homework Dan

Not sure who you're calling Dan but I was off on my math, it is $7.66 per an hour.

Here is the pay chart.

http://www.twu561.org/Event.asp?event_id=42&

 

[AMFAMAN]

CURRENT TA DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4 DOS+5
3/1/03 -17.5% 1.5% 1.5% 1.5% 1.5% 1.5%



Building / Cabin Cleaner
1st 6 Months $7.67 $6.33 $6.42 $6.52 $6.62 $6.72 $6.82
2nd 6 Months $7.88 $6.50 $6.60 $6.70 $6.80 $6.90 $7.00
3rd 6 Months $8.13 $6.71 $6.81 $6.91 $7.01 $7.12 $7.23
4th 6 Months $8.37 $6.91 $7.01 $7.12 $7.23 $7.34 $7.45
5th 6 Months $8.63 $7.12 $7.23 $7.34 $7.45 $7.56 $7.67
6th 6 Months $8.85 $7.30 $7.41 $7.52 $7.63 $7.74 $7.86
Thereafter $9.28 $7.66 $7.77 $7.89 $8.01 $8.13 $8.25


Just in case the link doesn't work. They went from $9.28 an hour to $7.66 an hour. :down: :down:

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

Dan,

Since you seem to be the advocate of the lesser skilled, can you tell me why a title 2 cabin cleaner with 17 years makes $7.76 an hour and has to pay dues to the twu for this?


Im not aware this is true? please refresh for us, I beleive according to the contract, isnt it more than that? If Im wrong I apologize, but last I heard title 2 cabin cleaner making was closer or maybe over $20.00, I will find out for sure and get back to you, Thanks for the homework Dan

Not sure who you're calling Dan but I was off on my math, it is $7.66 per an hour.

Here is the pay chart.

http://www.twu561.org/Event.asp?event_id=42&

AMFAMAN..................the difference is, building cleaner/cabin cleaner is correct $7.66. I thought you were referring to fleet service title 3 aircraft cleaner ? $20.93
Title2 cabin/building cleaner, I wasnt aware AA had janitors, here the janitors are farmed in.

 

[Bob Owens]

Rusty,

I dont agree with.........With AMFA there are term limits of four years for officials in your local. I believe this will fix the GOOD OLE BOY syndrome

It makes me question this, if your local has an officer, doing a great job for the members, and is successful, and never laid down on his responsibility, I would want him to be re elected as long as he wanted his office. Thats the responsibility of the members to decide to keep him/her or elect another.
If we are to limit all officers to 4 years, it wont take long in todays membership to quickly be without nominations?
Also, if there is a limit of 4 years, what would the officer have to work for? He could care less what he accomplished?
You stated your opinion and I gave mine, Thanks for posting Rusty

I agree with you on term limits MCI but not for the same reasons.

To me term limits are un-democratic. It denies the members the right to vote for who they want. If the person is doing the job OK then why should he be forced out if the majority want himm in? How does term limits help anyone? The high turnover rate on the local level makes the International more powerful and does nothing to enhance representation on the local level. If members allow unresponsive or incompetant leaders to stay in place because they fail to vote then they get the representation they deserve. A more effective measure would be that if 50% or more of the members do not vote at all that another election is started from scratch.In the meantime if the term is over then the incumbants would be limited to administrative functions only. No policies, or motions or any other functions could be voted on by them until an administration is duly elected. This would encourage the members to vote otherwise the Local would remain in limbo.

Tulsa's problem appears to be that the incumbants have an advantage because the union is so large, instead of term limits you should try to develop a system where challengers are given more opportunity to address the entire electorate than they have now.

The statement that if they cant get re-elected that they should care less I strongly dissagree with. The whole idea is a better served membership, and an officer that is going back to the floor stands to benifit if he did things the right way while he was in office.

One thing is that if you do not like this policy you could make a motion to have it changed, and instead of it getting buried and killed off in one of Sonny Halls "All for say Aye, all against say Aye , and I'll determine which Ayes have it" votes (actually happened) at the Convention with AMFA it comes back to you, the member for a vote.

Our TWU Conventions offer members absolutely zero accountability. Policies that you do not like you have no chance of changing as a member and very little as an officer. Not one resolution that the International opposed was passed at the last Convention, and even participants have no real way of knowing how many votes were cast one way or the other. When you get a chance ask your Local to let you see a copy of the 2001 Convention minutes. Term limits would mean that the only ones with prior experience at the Conventiuon would be the International.

Sonny Hall is a dictator. Like other dictators he uses forums such as the Convention to identify "opponents" to his regime, then he isolates, neutalizes or eliminates them. Since the Convention he aided the company through his inaction in the removal of Jack Sullivan who ran against his ticket, suspended me, who nominated Sullivan, put a friendly President in place in Local 234 and has worked to isolate the leadership of Local 100 from the rest of the Union. He suspended me for three years to prevent me from attending the next Convention. Other Presidents are too afraid of Sonny Hall to oppose him, plus many hope to get an appointed spot in the International.

Term limits on the local level would not fix these problems, if anything it would make it worse.

 

[AMFAMAN]

AMFAMAN..................the difference is, building cleaner/cabin cleaner is correct $7.66. I thought you were referring to fleet service title 3 aircraft cleaner ? $20.93
Title2 cabin/building cleaner, I wasnt aware AA had janitors, here the janitors are farmed in.

No I clearly spelled out a 17 year title 2 cabin cleaner makes $7.66 an hour. What is the twu going to do to change this if anything? These people have been screwed over for years and no one seems to care because they are not title 3. Funny thing here is that they were offered to go to title 3 and get 2 years seniority total out of the 15+ years in that department. The few who took it are now on the street due to layoff.

FYI...Building cleaners still exist in Tulsa and Title 2 Cabin cleaners are scattered all around the line. The janitors have been outsourced and midnight cabin cleaning is now outsourced. :down:

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

AMFAMAN..................the difference is, building cleaner/cabin cleaner is correct $7.66. I thought you were referring to fleet service title 3 aircraft cleaner ? $20.93
Title2 cabin/building cleaner, I wasnt aware AA had janitors, here the janitors are farmed in.

No I clearly spelled out a 17 year title 2 cabin cleaner makes $7.66 an hour. What is the twu going to do to change this if anything? These people have been screwed over for years and no one seems to care because they are not title 3. Funny thing here is that they were offered to go to title 3 and get 2 years seniority total out of the 15+ years in that department. The few who took it are now on the street due to layoff.

FYI...Building cleaners still exist in Tulsa and Title 2 Cabin cleaners are scattered all around the line. The janitors have been outsourced and midnight cabin cleaning is now outsourced. :down:

AMFAMAN, Im not an officer with the TWU, so I cant answer what the TWU is going to do with the building cleaners pay, If I may, Turn this around,and ask What will AMFA do for the building cleaner?

 

[AMFAMAN]

AMFAMAN, Im not an officer with the TWU, so I cant answer what the TWU is going to do with the building cleaners pay, If I may, Turn this around,and ask What will AMFA do for the building cleaner?

Since you asked, at NWA a Custodian makes $19.21 going to $19.97 next year after 5 years and a cabin cleaner makes $20.16 going to $20.97. Also our 17 cleaner would also get longevity and a cleaner premium of 15 cents an hour.

http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/10_Publicati...WA_Contract.pdf


It's s good read, try page 17 about layoffs as a result of a merger.

 

[scorpian]

Rusty,

I dont agree with.........With AMFA there are term limits of four years for officials in your local. I believe this will fix the GOOD OLE BOY syndrome

It makes me question this, if your local has an officer, doing a great job for the members, and is successful, and never laid down on his responsibility, I would want him to be re elected as long as he wanted his office. Thats the responsibility of the members to decide to keep him/her or elect another.
If we are to limit all officers to 4 years, it wont take long in todays membership to quickly be without nominations?
Also, if there is a limit of 4 years, what would the officer have to work for? He could care less what he accomplished?
You stated your opinion and I gave mine, Thanks for posting Rusty

MCI AFL-CIO

You seem to have a quest for knowledge so this may help you out.
You can go to www.amfanatl.com and pull up a copy of amfa's constitution and also from this web site you can hop over to local 33 and pull up the N/W- amfa agreement.

Article 11 Sec (2) par (J) of the amfa constitution states that term of office for all local officers shall not be less than one year nor more than two years as outlined by local bylaws. There is no mention of term limits. TWU's constitution reads pretty much the same but if my memory serves me correct the term is two to three years with no mention of term limits. Local 514 here in Tulsa voted to extend Ed Wilson's term in office for another year once years ago, I cant remeber what the reasoning was but the vote past and he got an extension. He was the local president at the time. This would have been no different if amfa had been in place at the time.

Hope this web site helps you out.