Replace AFA joint negotiations committee now

[700UW]

People can say what they want, court documents and arbitration says other and thats what counts.

And the IAM just won the former CO Ramp and PCE, and at AirTran.

Willingness? Thats why our CBA was abrogated in Chapter 11 part II.

Try again.

 

[USA320Pilot]

US management must be laughing all the way to bank. Sure, let's all go take another survey about what we want. Then let's wait another 6 mos. for said survey to be analyzed, again. Then let's all go to 6 mos. of road shows. Then let's see what the mediator says. Then let's sit down with the company and rehash and renogiate all of the contract sections and viola it is the end of 2013. Then let's all go vote again in 2014. Hmmm....so I have now lost the average of $5000.00 per year I would have made. So our iluustrious AFA negotiators and leadership has cost me $10,000.00 while I blindly go along with this insanity. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

I recently tore the "Contract Now" tag off my bag in frustration. We had a contract negotiated for years on the table...this was to be the year we finally began to move forward. If our AFA leaders were so divided over this contract then why in the hell did they even put it up for a vote? Why did the mec's not even bother to get behind the negotiating committee and give a vote for recomendation? I guess they enjoy a good train wreck. The members are suffering and this crowd is so busy trying to prove a point that we are all going to be broke soon!

I could care less if Susy Flight Attendant gets to fly with her pilot boyfriend or husband and I am sooo tired of all this constant back and forth nonsense. How is anything going to change if nothing changes? Thanks for letting me vent.

Johnny,

Great post. I agree with the basics of your timeline. The pilots, both East and West, either use Pref Bid or are contractually required to implement it, which means the company can split the East pilots from East F/As today, if they desired. What about the time value of money? Will the F/As ever be able to recover what they lost by voting down the TA?

USA320Pilot

 

[SparrowHawk]

Johnny,

Great post. I agree with the basics of your timeline. The pilots, both East and West, either use Pref Bid or are contractually required to implement it, which means the company can split the East pilots from East F/As today, if they desired. What about the time value of money? Will the F/As ever be able to recover what they lost by voting down the TA?

USA320Pilot

This is all grand and good. However it ignores human nature. We are not robots, we have emotions and yes it's always best to leave the emotions at home and focus on what is strictly business in our work life.

Back when I was in US's good graces I told them point blank, "You'd best be ready for the mess that's going to occur when it comes time to do the next contract (meaning this one) because they (AFA) won't forget the job you did on them and IMO it will get ugly". That was to a Senior VP who was tight With Mr Glass. His response was, "I hear you but we're trying to save the company and we've not time for nice."

Well turns out old SH was right and now here we are some 8 years or so after that conversation and no surprise to me the contract was rejected. Logic, Prudence, Business Acumen etc etc is NOT at play here. What is at play and rightfully so is emotions, passions and the determination to "Show" management a thing or two. I don't blame the F/A's even a little for feeling as they do. In fact I'd go the other way in that I'm amazed they have performed as professionally as they have given the circumstances.

Replace the Negotiating Committee? To what end? That committee is only going to be as effective as the Leadership behind it and sadly there is no leadership. Somebody, Somewhere within the ranks has got to come forward and engage, inspire and rally the group. Changing the negotiating committee IMO is merely rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[USA320Pilot]

This is all grand and good. However it ignores human nature. We are not robots, we have emotions and yes it's always best to leave the emotions at home and focus on what is strictly business in our work life.

Back when I was in US's good graces I told them point blank, "You'd best be ready for the mess that's going to occur when it comes time to do the next contract (meaning this one) because they (AFA) won't forget the job you did on them and IMO it will get ugly". That was to a Senior VP who was tight With Mr Glass. His response was, "I hear you but we're trying to save the company and we've not time for nice."

Well turns out old SH was right and now here we are some 8 years or so after that conversation and no surprise to me the contract was rejected. Logic, Prudence, Business Acumen etc etc is NOT at play here. What is at play and rightfully so is emotions, passions and the determination to "Show" management a thing or two. I don't blame the F/A's even a little for feeling as they do. In fact I'd go the other way in that I'm amazed they have performed as professionally as they have given the circumstances.

Replace the Negotiating Committee? To what end? That committee is only going to be as effective as the Leadership behind it and sadly there is no leadership. Somebody, Somewhere within the ranks has got to come forward and engage, inspire and rally the group. Changing the negotiating committee IMO is merely rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Great. The members wanted to tell management "no" to get even because of the bankruptcy restructuring. Now the F/A's can wait a couple more years for a deal, let management retaliate next, and have much less security in the event of a merger.

The membership spoke and said "no." Now what? What's the next step? More complaining when the AFA cannot get a new TA and its members continue to labor under a less lucrative contract?

Me thinks so...so much for taking a bite out of the apple. Both MEC presidents and the JNC said this was the best deal possible. The NMB knows that too. Could that mean no release and getting "parked"?

Ah yes...the time value of money and working more days than necessary because of no new duty rigs...

 

[700UW]

The FAs made their choice, let it be, its their vote to choose, not yours.

With a 75% no vote and a 90% participation its quite clear they werent happy with it.

And you cant blame them.

Now run along, Doug needs you.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Great. The members wanted to tell management "no" to get even because of the bankruptcy restructuring. Now the F/A's can wait a couple more years for a deal, let management retaliate next, and have much less security in the event of a merger.

The membership spoke and said "no." Now what? What's the next step? More complaining when the AFA cannot get a new TA and its members continue to labor under a less lucrative contract?

Me thinks so...so much for taking a bite out of the apple. Both MEC presidents and the JNC said this was the best deal possible. The NMB knows that too. Could that mean no release and getting "parked"?

Ah yes...the time value of money and working more days than necessary because of no new duty rigs...

You know sometimes you just boggle my mind. Do you have a freaking crystal ball that tells you it will take years to get a new contract or is it just one of those magic 8 Balls?

Seriously how did you ever become a pilot?? You are the most risk averse person I've ever seen.

Sometimes in life you have to take a stand. This very notion is the Foundation of the Republic. Sometimes what's good for everybody is more important then what's good for you. This would IMO be such a time for the F/A's and I for one am totally on their side. Anything they get from these so called Managers they are already owed.

Sometime in life you have to pick a side. Do you know which side you're on? Because there are no neutrals, you're either with the AFA or you're a Doug Parker sycophant. So pick a side, I know I have.

With your attitude and approach this nation would be still be singing "God Save The Queen" as it's national anthem and we'd all be British Subjects.

 

[usfliboi]

The FAs made their choice, let it be, its their vote to choose, not yours.

With a 75% no vote and a 90% participation its quite clear they werent happy with it.

And you cant blame them.

Now run along, Doug needs you.

Bless yur heart..."Sipping my grape koolaid" I said it before Watch and learn the power less union operate now! Oh ....its gonna be an eye brow raiser....We may...may mind you recoup what we have lost because of this ...but that will be all..Watch and Bobby!

 

[SparrowHawk]

Bless yur heart..."Sipping my grape koolaid" I said it before Watch and learn the power less union operate now! Oh ....its gonna be an eye brow raiser....We may...may mind you recoup what we have lost because of this ...but that will be all..Watch and Bobby!

You were pretty cocky and arrogant on here right up until the rank and file told the AFA Leaders and Doug Parker to take the proposed contract and stick it someplace.

During the 2 BK's there was different and real leadership in the AFA and I'll tell you they were scared of the AFA. Again I was told the following, "Bob, the AFA has the power to shut this airline down." That power still exists. What IMO is lacking is the Leadership required to bring that power to bear. There is ONE person that I know who was active in AFA activities during the BK years and she is active still. IMO She needs to step forward and lead. Hopefully she will.

God bless you all and enjoy the rest of your Easter.

 

[737823]

You were pretty cocky and arrogant on here right up until the rank and file told the AFA Leaders and Doug Parker to take the proposed contract and stick it someplace.

During the 2 BK's there was different and real leadership in the AFA and I'll tell you they were scared of the AFA. Again I was told the following, "Bob, the AFA has the power to shut this airline down." That power still exists. What IMO is lacking is the Leadership required to bring that power to bear. There is ONE person that I know who was active in AFA activities during the BK years and she is active still. IMO She needs to step forward and lead. Hopefully she will.

So if the AFA isn't representing the FAs well why not seek different or no representation? FAs at US Air are lagging the industry by a wide margin. Instead of representing you the AFA has been squandering your dues money running a (third) campaign and subsequent interference charges at Delta with no success,

Josh

 

[700UW]

You truly have no clue, the AFA at US is representing the FAs, it takes two parties to negotiate, once again your not an airline employee, have never negotiated anything under the RLA.

Run along, go foreclose one some old lady's house and back to the AA board for you.

 

[SparrowHawk]

So if the AFA isn't representing the FAs well why not seek different or no representation? FAs at US Air are lagging the industry by a wide margin. Instead of representing you the AFA has been squandering your dues money running a (third) campaign and subsequent interference charges at Delta with no success,

Josh

Who would you suggest would represent them better? To go non-union with the folks that run US would be career suicide.

The AFA effort at Delta had it been successful would have helped all FA's industry wide. US Airways AFA has had a tougher hill to climb due to 2 BK's. It's easy to armchair quarterback here but they're doing the best they can given the divide and conquer tactics of master union buster Jerry Glass.

 

[700UW]

Glass is assisting AA in their dealing with labor, they will see what's it all about.

 

[ggiby]

Glass is assisting AA in their dealing with labor, they will see what's it all about.

Glass is a master at negotiating your life away..... He was on the company side again with us with this failed t/a.. He is the one who did our bankrupt contract that we are working under right now... Hope he does not come back here for the new talks....

Hopefully he will stay very very busy striping the AA contract, it will keep him off our property. Sorry for AA but you can have him...

 

[700UW]

I have dealt with Jerry and his cronies personally myself, during Bankruptcy II.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Bet he gets a a giant woody reading threads like this. He's a piece of work.

Didn't know he was in the employ of AA, Adds more credibility to the merger talks. After all who would know the US CBA's better and be able to align them with the AA proposals?