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[mweiss]

If you were a colonist back during the Revolutionary war, would you have fought for independence from Great Britain, or would you have complained that its only over tea tax?

Well, first of all, the issue wasn't that the King imposed a tax on tea. Rather, the King eliminated an otherwise unpopular tax on tea. The Boston Tea Party was held by those who were making huge amounts of money in the tea black market. Did you know that?

In any case, in answer to the spirit of your question, I don't know what I would have done. Much of it would have depended on how I felt about the issues at the time. It's pretty hard to put myself in the shoes of a colonist in the mid 1700s.

If you were on the bus during the 60's would you have agreed with Rosa Parks, or would you have taken your place in th back of the bus?

That's an easier one. I would have stood up for Rosa Parks.

More to the point, I have sacrificed in my career based on moral considerations. At the same time, I know that I was very much in the minority among my peers in that regard. This is why I find it hard to believe that a majority of US PIT FAs feel this way.

 

[RWerksman]

First of all, I find it hard to believe that the majority of US PIT FAs are interested in being martyrs.

I kind of find it interesting as well...


On the same line, dont most martyrs believe themselves to be patriots?

 

[mweiss]

I see a tough, determined person who tries her best to be an embodiment of her people. I see someone who is distrustful of management for good reason. I see someone who is very matter-of-fact. I see someone in a very, very tough position.

Don't get me wrong; for the most part, I agree. Sometimes, though, the distinctions appear to blur. Perhaps it's because I hear Teddy's "voice" and assume it's coming directly from her own opinion, rather than being an aggregation of the US PIT FAs' opinions.

I don't envy her her job. And I have a great deal of respect for what she does.

Regarding your rhetoric comment, I have found that she tends to be a bit of a hothead at times; I suspect it would be very trying for me if I were on the receiving end of her tirades, and it would make me uninterested in working toward an equitable solution. However, I am not on the other end of negotiations with PIT AFA, and have not had any dealings with those who are. Thus, I cannot comment on the degree to which such interactions are necessary.

 

[mweiss]

On the same line, dont most martyrs believe themselves to be patriots?

The comparison between martyr and patriot is the comparison between church and state. In various societies at various times, the distinction can be virtually nonexistent.

 

[PITbull]

Mweiss,

No offense, but from your postings, I don't take you for the kind of guy who would stand up for anything that goes against popular belief or that would take some effort to think on a critical level. Your more of a comformist and would never think to challenge higher authority. Not even question it.

To sit on these boards and imply that labor has such little value and worth, to not even question concession #3 for the sake of those you believe could never do anything else. Its so defeatest.

Again, Labor does not develop business plans, manage airlines, operate airlines, or make decisions to go into bk or liquidate. These are decisions made by those who have a fudiciary responsibility to the share holders.

Labor's sole responsibility is to meet the expectation of the customer, work under their contracts, and be a dependable employee. In return, they expect a livable wage, and a secure future.

 

[RWerksman]

Regarding your rhetoric comment, I have found that she tends to be a bit of a hothead at times; I suspect it would be very trying for me if I were on the receiving end of her tirades, and it would make me uninterested in working toward an equitable solution. However, I am not on the other end of negotiations with PIT AFA, and have not had any dealings with those who are. Thus, I cannot comment on the degree to which such interactions are necessary.

Very good point, I honestly do wonder what the other side thinks when they have to deal with her. Crush? Undermine? Blow off? Appease?

I think I would hate to be across the table from her especially if it were for the third time.


And you are right, I have no knowledge of the amount of rhetoric coming from CCY. I just assume that it is quite a bit based upon other negotiation experiences.

 

[mweiss]

No offense, but from your postings, I don't take you for the kind of guy who would stand up for anything.

Actually I do take offense. You only read my postings here on the US board. They're defeatist because I don't believe the company has the right players to succeed, nor do I believe that the company will in time to save itself from 7 or sale.

Your more of a comformist and would never think to challenge higher authority. Not even question it.

Shows how little you know me. I used to try the brute-force approach to get what I wanted, and failed more often than not. Over time, I learned the value in taking a more martial-arts approach, to use my opponents' force against them. It takes much less work, and has much greater rate of success. I challenge higher authority often. No, make that pretty much constantly.

To sit on these boards and imply that labor has such little value and worth, to not even question concession #3 for the sake of those you believe could never do anything else. Its so defeatest.

I believe that labor has neither little value, nor little worth. Companies cannot succeed without labor. However, that won't ultimately change what happens to US Airways.

Labor's sole responsibility is to meet the expectation of the customer, work under their contracts, and be a dependable employee. In return, they expect a livable wage, and a secure future.

Labor's sole responsibility is to meet the expectation of the employer. Ideally, those expectations will be mutually agreed upon in advance of commencement of employment, as that leads to happy employees, and happy employees are productive employees. Good employers will expect employees to exceed the expectations of their customers.

Everyone wants livable wages and secure futures. Not all employers are empowered to grant that. Before your hackles raise (I can see them already), I do not believe that US as a company is incapable of providing something approximating a living wage, but at the same time I do not believe that the current management team at the top is capable of doing so. You might as well ask them to win the Super Bowl.

 

[PITbull]

Teddy actually has a professional relationship with management. They can despise her covertly, but she is a formidable opponent.

She has been able to win quite a few jobs back in her tenure, as well as protect language in the contract and receive a resolution WITHOUT arbitration.

She has also negotiated language in the summer restructuring agreement that has benefited all the f/as on the property, she sits on sytem board cases as a member, and is on the negotiating committee for MAA. She writes out to the f/as through e-lines a few times a week and also keeps the MAA f/as up to date and adminsters their contract separately from mainline.

She also has come to know this management and their style intimately and uses the media to her advantage.

 

[mweiss]

Teddy actually has a professional relationship with management.

At least, that's what she'd characterize it as.

Like I said, I'm not deep enough in there to be able to reasonably comment on it. But how could I resist responding to that sentence?

 

[PITbull]

At least, that's what she'd characterize it as.

Like I said, I'm not deep enough in there to be able to reasonably comment on it. But how could I resist responding to that sentence?

Well, there's those assumptions again. You will never know, now will you?

The hard left position, in this environment is an attempt to create balance in the MEC, with managment, and in negotiations, specifically using the media.

Kinda goes against the grain, if you will.

There is purpose to the madness.

 

[PITbull]

Labor's sole responsibility is to meet the expectation of the employer.

The employer has a responsibility to uphold the contracts of labor. That is where the expectation is met mutually.

 

[RWerksman]

Labor's sole responsibility is to meet the expectation of the employer.

I disagree with this.


In an at-will world, this would be 100% true, but when you involve unions this goes right out the over wing exit.

The responsibility of a union employee is to uphold the agreement that he or she made when the union that he or she belongs to signed a contract.


Edit: beaten to the punch! damn...

 

[PITbull]

Gee Rwerksman,

I just wrote that above at the same time you did. Only you said it so much better than me.

I believe, you and I are on the same page of the book; on the same line

 

[mweiss]

The responsibility of a union employee is to uphold the agreement that he or she made when the union that he or she belongs to signed a contract.

If you look above again, you'll note I said

Ideally, those expectations will be mutually agreed upon in advance of commencement of employment

Union contracts are but one way of establishing these mutually agreed expectations.

Ultimately, labor still has to meet the employer's expectations. Imagine how it would be if scheduling expects a crew for a PIT-LAX flight, but the crew decided they were going to randomly staff other flights. The employer's expectations sure wouldn't be met, would they? And who does scheduling?

You get the point.

 

[UseYourHead]

True enough. I held CO's top elite status from 1994 through 2002, and am intimately acquainted with their story. They would not have succeeded had they stayed on the path they were on. They succeeded in part because they started to focus on the customer again, instead of just cutting costs. Similarly, US cannot succeed by just focusing on the cost side of the ledger.

The key once again was they they made it through the bad times...same thing we all should want to do.

Can it happen...YES!

Will it happen? It is more likely if we all pull the rope in same direction....