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[cavalier]

The key once again was they they made it through the bad times...same thing we all should want to do.

Can it happen...YES!

Will it happen? It is more likely if we all pull the rope in same direction....

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the rope winding all over the place at 290 degrees and back while people are getting choked in the knots and tangles.

Given the management team we still have in place even with its head cut off, I would say black magic is needed which is what they accustomed to dealing in.

Bad attitude you may think, nay, reality attitude that’s plain to see for anyone not caught up in fantasies.

 

[bobcat]

UseYourHead

PORTION DELETED

There are men and women fighting in other countries for what is right and LOSING their LIVES! Get off it...it's just a job! Everyone will continue to LIVE and find other jobs or professions. That is what unemployment benefits are for. To tide you over until you find another job. In the past most have been in the position of not having a job and something always comes along to sustain them and their families.

This company belongs to the employees that have been here for many many years through thick and thin. It's the employees that have kept it going and know what makes it work and what doesn't make it work. It doesn't belong to a couple of "jamokes" that come with their "almighty dollar", with no airline experience and try and take everything away from the employees to preserve their investment when they don't have a clue. They had over two years to get employee group suggestions (the ones that know) on cost saving measures and to implement them and they did nothing! The only cost saving they did was to take from the employees with absolutely no results. As a matter of fact we're in worse shape now. They want more???!!!!! That is just not right!

Anyone that thinks more major concessions are going to get US out of this money pit is not thinking rationally. When was the last time US made a profit for any amount of ongoing time? In this so called time of "change" for the airline industry what could possibly bring US to a profit and breath eternal life into this dying company. As Dave said US will never be a LCC, it's not structured as so. There are men running the company that don't have any experience in the industry. The LCCs are becoming the big guns in the industry. US has been in the red for quite a number of years and time is quickly running out. More concessions will just prolong the agony. It will give the big wigs more time to come up with a "plan" to recoup as much of their investment as possible while the hard working employees work harder and struggle to make ends meet after many years of service.

It's the employees that have made this company and should be the employees that bring it down!!! Stand up for what is right! What the "big wigs" are doing to the employees is not right! Let the chips fall where they may. The employees will LIVE either way.

 

[bobcat]

UseYourHead

I have no idea why part of my above reply was deleted because it was nowhere nearly as bad as others post. So, I'm going to try it again and see if it flies.

I stated that you say the people that say they will vote "no" are cowards. What substantiates that statement? It's the ones that vote "yes" that are the cowards. They are cowards for being afraid to stand up for themselves. They are cowards for being afraid to go out into the "big bad" world and get up off of their butts and start the sometime arduous process of looking for and procuring a new job or profession. They are afraid of change and have no self confidence.

To the moderator...If you delete this again please explain. Thanks!

 

[pitguy]

mweiss,

I know you say that you are an unemployed student and that your wife does go to work, but it just amazes me the interest you have in U. Just think of how this world would be if no one stood up against Hitler. I don't think you would like it.

 

[openview]

This company belongs to the employees that have been here for many many years through thick and thin. It's the employees that have kept it going and know what makes it work and what doesn't make it work.

Interesting perspective considering the majority in management where previous rank & file employees at one point and here for many years. Currently in senior management are people that were once f/a's, gate agent, ramp worker and pilot. It is reluctance to necessary change that has US where it is. The mentality I have a contract thru 200? and don't talk to me till then. Only competition, economy or events such as 9/11 don't move in the increment of 5 or 7 contract year spans. So that change often forced in other unappealling ways.

 

[cavalier]

Bobcat makes perfect sense.

What would be different this time around with another bloodletting? Why would bloodletting number three be the one that would save this dying company?

He speaks of change: I remember ALPA being the leader of DON’T change back when management begged them for permission for more RJ's, and now ALPA wants to give everything away including their co-workers jobs, benefits and wages with their famous me too/you too clauses.

Is it ALPA’s fault we are where we are, they sure in hell have NOT helped and now they want to sacrifice themselves and insist I do as well. ALPA and this management can kiss my royal behind.

The U employees are like the cancer patient who after many surgeries and chemo treatments suffers to the extreme but yet still refuses to yield to the inevitable because of fear of what is on the other side even though living makes no sense, is like an animal that needs put down but the owners don't have the courage to put it out of misery.

Concessions like bobcat states are for those people afraid of the unknown and are not thinking rationally, because anyone of sound mind can clearly see concessions will not save this airline, they will only maintain rich people's lot while throwing everyone else into poverty prolonging the change they will NEED to face.

Well written Bobcat

 

[UseYourHead]

UseYourHead

PORTION DELETED

That is what unemployment benefits are for. To tide you over until you find another job.

This company belongs to the employees that have been here for many many years through thick and thin.

It's the employees that have made this company and should be the employees that bring it down!!! Stand up for what is right!

BobCat,

Okay,

So shutting down the company is what is right? Ah huh...okay, and we should all be excited about going on unemployment too. Sorry I have more ambition than that; I suppose you are one of the folks who post here looking forward to a year vacation collecting unemployment? That is pathetic!

I have been here 19 years and it only makes me want to fight to see another day here. YOU ARE WRONG that employee concessions cannot help to save an airline, the only airline that have been where we have been, all made massive concessions numerous times...CAL, AWA to name a few.

Sorry, I strongly disagree with you that we should bring the company down...I would classify you as the enemy with an attitude like that....

 

[UseYourHead]

UseYourHead

I have no idea why part of my above reply was deleted because it was nowhere nearly as bad as others post. So, I'm going to try it again and see if it flies.

I stated that you say the people that say they will vote "no" are cowards. What substantiates that statement? It's the ones that vote "yes" that are the cowards. They are cowards for being afraid to stand up for themselves. They are cowards for being afraid to go out into the "big bad" world and get up off of their butts and start the sometime arduous process of looking for and procuring a new job or profession. They are afraid of change and have no self confidence.

To the moderator...If you delete this again please explain. Thanks!

BobCat,

BobCat,

You are not a coward to do what you believe is right...now a rep. who has been exposed to all the confidential info...unless they were stupid, they would know what the no-brainer choice is often times that have faced us, and faces us now. Now a rep. who would vote no because they do not want to face the membership and explain it to them...well, IMHO is a coward...and add to that when they vote NO, they also know that it will not change the outcome...that the rest of the reps. will carry the water and do the right thing....

Why do you think that 85% of the reps. vote for the ugly stuff? It is because they have a responsibility to the membership to do the right thing, and face them and tell them why they did it. They are not afraid to do the unpopular thing, as most members would choose to do if they had all the information.

If you hate your job...the conditions now, later, quit. Don't force others who have families and want this job to sit next to you in the un-employment line.

The sad fact is, if you could do that (sit next to them in the unemployment line), you would...the reality is that most people given a choice will not side with you and yours, they see right through you...why do you think the "shut it down" groups lose 70-30?

 

[PITbull]

The sad fact is, if you could do that (sit next to them in the unemployment line), you would...the reality is that most people given a choice will not side with you and yours, they see right through you...why do you think the "shut it down" groups lose 70-30?

Use your head,

If your sentiment is true above, than why worry about Bob cat or any of the naysayers?

From your post, the majority feel as you do and like you said "they will make the choice". so why all the intensity on telling folks to quit their jobs BEFORE a vote?

Again, if we quit now, there is NO unemployment. So, the ulternative is to see what happens and take the vote. If it fails and these povershing agreements go through, we will quit.

 

[UseYourHead]

Use your head,

If your sentiment is true above, than why worry about Bob cat or any of the naysayers?

From your post, the majority feel as you do and like you said "they will make the choice". so why all the intensity on telling folks to quit their jobs BEFORE a vote?

Again, if we quit now, there is NO unemployment. So, the ulternative is to see what happens and take the vote. If it fails and these povershing agreements go through, we will quit.

PitBull,

I am not worried about BobCat, You, and the like...We both know the real audience here, the people who don’t post (lurkers) because they will be clobbered by thugs if they dare say anything…anything at all positive. So the few posters more of my mindset help balance whatever debate goes on here.

Just as you and others here spew the dark-side rant, it is only balanced to have other opinions here as well. I strongly disagree with much of what is said here, by very few posters.

As far a quitting goes, I understand why people do not, especially these kind of employees; after all, who would hire them? …further, I know very few complainers who ever got off their duff and did anything about what they were constantly unhappy about at this job…sad really. The few who have I whole-heartily applaud!

You see, since I and others have really taken the time to research what is out there at other airlines when we start over, or other industries, we realize the “pie-in-sky†statements like “everything will be ok†and so on for what they are worth…not much.

The fact is if and when this tanks, there is going to be many surprised and unhappy people, I won’t be one of them as I have been pro-active, am currently interviewing, etc. The job waiting for most out there is a far cry from what they have here (even if you are lucky enough to start over at a LCC)…and the complainers are in for the biggest surprise, IMO…they best enjoy the feather bedding while the feather bedding is good, cause no other employer will put up with their crap or attitude.

Here is question:
1) How many 30 year employees hired at CAL in 1974 are happy today about their career
2) How many 30 year employees hired at EAL in 1974 are happy today about their career

There is nothing gained from helping US Airways to fail. The majority of employees are against that concept, and only bitter, angry, emotional, irrational folks smile with glee at that thought.

Lastly, the employees will only get a vote if a TA is set to the membership…but then, you know that….

 

[cavalier]

useyourhead

Here is the real reality. There are indeed good jobs out there IF you have an education and if you don't there still are but landing one is a lot tougher proposition, but the point is, you can land one. I know what I am talking about. My son is young but with his level of education, his earning potential is more than a mechanic can earn at Southwest and that is just to start. A mechanic at Southwest is earning 67 grand with no overtime and a lot more with overtime, this is fact I have friends there. My point is these guys have no degrees only skills and Southwest is not the only game in town for people without degrees. You say you are looking and interviewing, then why all the panic in your posts to people of my mind set, why do we scare you? Where is your confidence? You are what management loves to love, people who are driven by fear because they can become very rich off your fears. If management had their way, we all would be gone and like it has been posted, U would be a virtual airline where the people at the top would all be millionaires. This is why unions exist, why there is even a middle class. If you fear our stance so much you better get yourself at least a masters degree or grow some courage, it's really that simple.

 

[PITbull]

Cav,

You made the point well.

 

[diogenes]

Sorry, I strongly disagree with you that we should bring the company down...I would classify you as the enemy with an attitude like that....

It is possible that the "conceed, or the company folds" is a false dichotomy.

Perhaps another alternative is "stand your ground, and management will finally operate the airline."

After all, the former CEO himself said there are 2 cents in non-labor CASM's yet to be extracted.

I see no reason to wait another minute not to get after those costs. There is NOTHING prohibiting it.

Just a thought.

 

[mweiss]

This company belongs to the employees that have been here for many many years through thick and thin.

You may wish that to be true, but wishing does not make it so. Just as a house belongs to the title holder, and not the person who has rented it, fixed it up, and lived in it for thirty years while paying rent, US Airways belongs to the shareholders, and not the employees who have poured their blood, sweat, and tears into the company for decades. Whether it's right or not, and whether it's fair or not, is a separate discussion. By law, the company belongs to the shareholders.

 

[PITbull]

You may wish that to be true, but wishing does not make it so. Just as a house belongs to the title holder, and not the person who has rented it, fixed it up, and lived in it for thirty years while paying rent, US Airways belongs to the shareholders, and not the employees who have poured their blood, sweat, and tears into the company for decades. Whether it's right or not, and whether it's fair or not, is a separate discussion. By law, the company belongs to the shareholders.

Thanks mweiss,

Cause that ownership of stock includes ALL of labor too.