Pilot Pension - Where we go from here...

[insp89]

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On 1/26/2003 9:56:43 PM autofixer wrote:

So should they continue to fly, knowing their pension plan was terminated to fund the AFA and IAM pension? How much money can you save in 5 or 6 years? Not enough.

Walk away from your mortgages and car payments...let the banks take them back. Let the domino effect start. Housing prices in PIT, PHL and CLT will plument. Pick up a camper for around $10,000 and move to the beach and fly banner towers.

Try to imagine the economic devastation to one employer areas like Moon and Beaver, PA. There is much more at stake here than pilot pensions. Whole towns are in danger. Do you live in one of those towns? How much will your house be worth(less)?
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autofixer, Please, Please, back up your statement that the pilot's pension plan is being terminated to fund the AFA & IAM plans..How ridiclous ! The company is still offering the pilots a plan!! A 30 yr. mechanic retires on $2,100/month, A retiring pilot is $7,000/month..Is this number correct ????, Which the company feels is too much while at the same time Siegle has stated the other plans are reasonable. Oh, lets not forget about the LUMP SUM OPTION OF $1 MILLION DOLLARS that was offered to pilots until the recent concessions..autofixer, I want to personally thank you for your continuing interest in U, It must be tough keeping up with this website while running a thriving auto repair shop....

 

[retread]

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On 1/26/2003 12:36:24 PM cavalier wrote:

Why was it ok for the mechanics to take it not one time but twice for the good of the company, when we were all were being told by some pilots not to be selfish and to even quit so we don't hurt the other employees at U, so why was that ok?

There are a few pilots posting saying in essence to burn down the house, not fair, betrayed, lied to, and screw every other employee group. As long as the pilots are getting screwed then everyone else should get the same screwing. It's not like the pilots and all other employee groups were on a level playing field to begin with. I said this before and I will say it again: If the company is broke, it's broke. I find it hard to comprehend how ALPA was caught completely off guard not having clue! What am I missing here? I can't see how ALPA can possibly be satisfied at this point with anything that involves more cuts. How did it get this far and come to this stalemate? What if Dave is not the hammer as Chip has said so many times? The shortfall in the pilots pension fund is more than the company is borrowing in totality, so what is the answer? The only answer I read here is, shut the doors because the pilots would be better off since they are highly educated with multiple careers, talents and own businesses. I just can’t see the reasoning for this present situation, it’s like U is not supposed to survive. I honestly don’t begrudge anyone like I have been accused, I just question reasoning that seems bizarre.
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And we also gave twice for the good of the team. We gave more so you wouldnt have to . NOW!, they want more. I would just love to read the post if they came after your pension. Why dont you give up your pension without a fight. We would not expect you to give yours up. What we are tired of is paying high price for pushback and cleaners and head count. We have ALWAYS gave back.

 

[CaptChill]

flyguy121

Speak for yourself... If Chip has a differing opinion than before, it's because he's seen first hand the raping the pilot group is enduring...

No one wants to shut this company down, but enough is enough... I don't see any of you critics out there stepping up to the bat willing to make the same percentage of concessions the pilot group has made... Why don't you go to YOUR UNION LEADERSHIP and offer that... Then there may be some equity here... and speaking of equity... remember that the millions management will make if this comes out of Chapter 11... Where's the equity in that??... all on the backs of all the employee groups... Go ahead and bash the pilots all you want...

All I know is that if it were your employee group getting the royal shaft... you'd be screaming bloody murder...

 

[cat 111]

retread, I'm sure the company is tired of paying you guys to sit at home.You guys are overpaid for doing nothing.

 

[cavalier]

Some pilots here act like it's their birth right to be millionaires. Management the last time I looked runs the show, not ALPA. Who said life is fair, where did you read that? And give me a break on crying woe is me because when it's all over ALPA members will still do better than the rest of us can only dream of, even in retirement. You will get no shoulders to cry on here, you just make yourselves look like spoiled children spewing this crap. Now you can come back and attack me with some big words, but reality is reality my fellow U employees.

 

[A320 Driver]

Cav,
We gave twice just like you did. We are sacrificing just like you are. We had a deal with the company just like you do. They are breaking their word and the deal. We will deal with them accordingly.

I hope this works out, but we will not take this lying down again.

A320 Driver

 

[CaptChill]

Cav...
"management, is running the show, not ALPA"... What management??? Are you actually suggesting that we have anyone at the helm that actually knows what the heck they're doing (raping and pillaging... yes!...running an airline... no!???) Siegel??? Bronner??? Wolfe??? (now that's a joke in and of itself... rumor has it that Wolfe has already received his lump sum $12+ mil in pension... and he's not even retired???) The only people at this airline that will retire as millionaires are the CEO's and management. The problem as I see it is that US Airways has no management capable of running and growing an airline...

Your lack of support for the pilot group will be remembered by them when Dave "labor friendly" Siegel comes back to you for more and more and more.... So that Wolfe, Bronner and Dave will walk away with more millions... Nope no sympathy here!

 

[mrplanes]

I posted this under the what is the solution thread:

The question was: What is the solution? Here is the answer:

Dave only has to commit to the pilots that our pension BENEFITS will be no LESS than what he agreed to in LOA 84. Regardless of whether some comes from the PBGC and some from the company. And basically that benefit is very simple. We have earned and will be paid a pension benefit of 50% of our FAE. He agreed to it in December. He has no reason NOT to agree to it now. If it worked then. It must work now. Nothing has changed over that time period. That is how you solve this problem. It's very simple. He lives up to his committment and the problem is solved.

mr


We don't want anyone's sympathy. We are not interested in your retirement benefits, pay, work rules or anything else. What we demand is what Dave agreed to in December. That is all. Nothing more. Nothing less. The lump is gone. We agreed to it. So did Dave. 65% of FAE is gone. We agreed to it. So did Dave. Now we fully expect him to live up to his end of the bargain which is spelled out above. whine about pilots all you want. We know where our line is drawn. Plain and simple. This problem is history if Dave does what he already said he would do. I happen to think that he will. But if he does not, everything we have given to this point is moot. He will be finding another place to work just like all of us. That is the harsh reality. We lived up to our end of the bargain. Now it is Dave's turn. I, for one, am done explaining what will happen. I suggest that all pilots do the same. This is our fight and ours alone. What anyone other than the U pilots think of it is irrelavent.

mr

 

[CaptChill]

MR...

I agree with most of what you've said... however, my understanding is that once the plan is terminated and the PBGC takes over... they will not allow the company a follow on (a la LTV) retirement to come up to what Dave's promised (and you can bet your last dollar he knows that)... and his response will be... well guys and gals I tried... sorry but it was out of my control.... (guess what... screwed again!)

and I'll ditto your comments about this being our fight... and our fight alone.

 

[CaptChill]

Retread
"It's not like the pilots and all other employee groups were on a level playing field to begin with"

What are you inferring? That everyone at U, regardless of their profession should be paid the same???? Is U now a Socialistic company?

 

[retread]

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On 1/27/2003 12:15:36 PM cat 111 wrote:

retread, I'm sure the company is tired of paying you guys to sit at home.You guys are overpaid for doing nothing.
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Personally, I do not know what you are talking about. If it was just a desperate stab than take your toys and go home. I know, it is the ML pilots fault.

 

[CaptChill]

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On 1/27/2003 3:06:56 PM tug_slug wrote:

Mr. Planes comments,
This is our fight and ours alone. What anyone other than the U pilots think of it is irrelavent.

Tug replies,
It may be your fight but its our lively hood your gambling with. If you don't like the way Dave's treating you than the answer to YOUR problem is obvious. Quit and move on!

Best of luck
Tug

TUG...
If you don't like the actions of this pilot group, then why don't you just quit and move on to greener pastures... Are you suggesting we should give up our collective bargaining? Do you think the pilots are insulated from this???... This is not a hasty decision... it's been difficult as hell... But ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!.... The company has been given ample recommendations from ALPA and it's members for ways for Dave and Company to work this out. We had an opportunity through legislative help... Thank you Dave and Company for torpedoing all of our efforts in that regard... It's our livelyhood too... just in case you haven't noticed! So Mr. IAM member... why are you still driving tugs when Mr. Bronner states it's a waste of money and completely not necessary?

 

[MrAeroMan]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/27/2003 351 PM CaptChill wrote:
[P]A320 Driver[BR]Here's my minor modification of your post to CAV:[BR][BR]Cav,[BR]We gave twice just like you did (MORE). We are sacrificing just like you are (FAR MORE). We had a deal with the company just like you do ("HAD" IS THE OPERATIVE WORD HERE). They are breaking their word and the deal. We will deal with them accordingly.[BR][BR]I hope this works out, but we will not take this lying down again.(PRECISELY!)[BR][BR]A320 Driver [BR]MODIFIED BY CAPTCHILL[BR][BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]The reason the pilot group gave more is because they earn more. It's as simple as that. You expect the other groups to give the same dollars as the pilots? Come on!! Chip has said time and time again, over and over how much you guys gave up. We know, on average, you guys gave up approximately $138,000 dollars which equates to 46% which means on average a pilot earned $300,000 prior to the give backs. Are you saying that you're going to starve on $162,000 in pay and benefits per year? [BR]Now ask the CSS or RSS or IAM-m or mid-management or AFA what their pay and benefits is down to. I promise you it is no where near what the pilot group makes. [BR]A320, I must say you have conducted yourself in a respectable way during your posts. I wish the same could be said for others in these threads BOTH pilot and non-pilot.[BR][BR]MrA[/P]

 

[supercruiser]

>>It may be your fight but its our lively hood your gambling with. If you don't like the way Dave's treating you than the answer to YOUR problem is obvious

 

[CaptChill]

A320 Driver
Here's my minor modification of your post to CAV:

Cav,
We gave twice just like you did (MORE). We are sacrificing just like you are (FAR MORE). We had a deal with the company just like you do ("HAD" IS THE OPERATIVE WORD HERE). They are breaking their word and the deal. We will deal with them accordingly.

I hope this works out, but we will not take this lying down again.(PRECISELY!)

A320 Driver
MODIFIED BY CAPTCHILL