Pilot labor thread 5/4-5/10

[EastUS]

IAside from that, I agree totally that the entire 1950's concept of how pilots are paid should be relegated to the dustbin and the whole process rethought starting from scratch.

Agreed in full.

 

[nostradamus]

The "old heads" everywhere will base their notions on what they've/we've astually seen happen.

alpa is in trouble. They try to lay blame on Us Airways original pilots. Inquiring minds should be contemplating , which came first the decertification or the egg.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Agreed in full.

Ditto

 

[EastUS]

Ditto

QUOTE (nycbusdriver @ May 5 2008, 08:13 PM)
IAside from that, I agree totally that the entire 1950's concept of how pilots are paid should be relegated to the dustbin and the whole process rethought starting from scratch.

Roger...a fine goal that would prove, if possible to implement...that would allow for some regained "respect" from worthless, managerial thieves/Essentially-Clueless-MBA/whoopee-farg- twits/etc.

"and miles to go before I sleep"

 

[hp_fa]

HoG Driver:

Thank you for your service whenever it was. I always thought the Hogs were really interesting planes with an interesting close air support mission.

 

[EastUS]

HoG Driver:

Thank you for your service whenever it was. I always thought the Hogs were really interesting planes with an interesting close air support mission.

Aww..what's he know? ..Even "girls" can fly Warthogs. Seriously though, and in proper tribute to both the pilots and the "beast" = A fine Lady Officer/Aviator returned to base after one "discussion" ..with over half of the aircraft's tail blown off by enemy fire

 

[HogDriver]

Aww..what's he know? ..Even "girls" can fly Warthogs. Seriously though, and in proper tribute to both the pilots and the "beast" = A fine Lady Officer/Aviator returned to base after one "discussion" ..with over half of the aircraft's tail blown off by enemy fire

It was a total Hottie named "KillerChick". She was good looking but what made her 'hot" was the fact she strapped on the worlds best killing machine, took it to the enemy, got her tail feathers mussed and brought the jet all the way home in Man.Reversion. Not an easy task. I taxied up to her jet just after landing and watched it bleed all over Jaber's ramp. Only the Hog would have made it back like that. I would fly on her wing anytime, and take the Hog anywhere ( damn near did!).

East...I may not have had the burners, but The Way of the Gun can be just as fun! Just ask the Medina division.....oh wait, they ain't there anymore.

 

[EastUS]

It was a total Hottie named "KillerChick". She was good looking but what made her 'hot" was the fact she strapped on the worlds best killing machine, took it to the enemy, got her tail feathers mussed and brought the jet all the way home in Man.Reversion. Not an easy task. I taxied up to her jet just after landing and watched it bleed all over Jaber's ramp. Only the Hog would have made it back like that. I would fly on her wing anytime, and take the Hog anywhere ( damn near did!).

East...I may not have had the burners, but The Way of the Gun can be just as fun! Just ask the Medina division.....oh wait, they ain't there anymore.

"World's best killing machine"!!???... my used-ta' wuzz-pink-arse!!!..BUT...Ummm...Errr...I'll give you the Iraqi/Bastiges Guards/Medina Salute! Bro Just tell me you weren't in a briefing room, with f-in' CNN on in the background..and heard "King George" come on with "Agression is defeated!..the War is over!"....we could have heard a mouse far'...umm..belch for a full two-three minutes after that BS...No matter..This thing of "Having a pulse" is indeed good. Take the best care sir

PS Sir "Only the Hog would have made it back like that." well...Duuuh!..."real" warplanes aren't supposed ta' git' shot ta' shi---ummm/etc Seriously comrade..my Salute Sir...your people "done" way past just "good" ..and much is owed by all....Ummm..again though = did you ever "wonder' at the TOTAL lack of any/all enemy fighters serving to theaten "your" stirkes ?.. a small bit of credit ..where it's due "Nevermind"..we'd have to spend serious, lost brain cells, and many hours going over these issues in a more proper setting..yeah, yeah..I'll buy..at least the first..then it's liar's dice ..crud..only if there's a table..and we live in a time of decreasing resources....

 

[HogDriver]

HoG Driver:

Thank you for your service whenever it was. I always thought the Hogs were really interesting planes with an interesting close air support mission.

You are welcome HP...thank you for the sentiments. I was lucky enough to fly the Hog for 24 years with six combat tours. It was a great mission supporting the grunts. Now I am retired but trying to fight more battles for a decent career for myself and my "brother" pilots. Not sure which fight is going to be harder.

 

[HogDriver]

"World's best killing machine"!!???... my used-ta' wuzz-pink-arse..BUT...Ummm...Errr...I'll give you the Iraqi/Bastiges Guards/Medina Salute! Bro Just tell me you weren't in a briefing room, with f-in' CNN on in the background..and heard "King George" come on with "Agression is defeated!..the War is over!"....we couldn't have heard a mouse far...umm..belch for a full two-three minutes after that BS...No matter..This thing of "Having a pulse" is indeed good. Take the best care sir

Was exactly there...did not believe W was completely correct but hoped for the best. Now I am glad to have been there, done that and got the merit badge. Time for the young turks to pick up the torch while I fight a different battle here at home. Hope this battle goes better for us all!

 

[sagurao]

hogdriver love the pay idea. but i say just pay a guy for L.O.S. regardless of position. yeah the capt has more resposablility but you know we would all still want the right seat even if it didn't pay more for the same L.O.S. and the senior guys would still mostly more want the big planes even if they paid the same. it would also save the company alot of training $ and keep some of the most senior pilots in the smaller jets flying with the newest fos where their experience would be more usefull. and the contract could contain a prevision for linking pay to avg number of seats per plane in the fleet eg. (numbers are only to keep the math easy for me)
avg fleet size 150 then 150k for a 10 yr pilot if doug buys a bunch of 330's and avg fleet size goes up to 165 then a 10yr pilots pay goes up to 165 with out any negotiation it just happens dollar by dollar anytime a new plane shows up or old one leaves.
what do you think?

 

[EastUS]

Was exactly there...did not believe W was completely correct but hoped for the best. Now I am glad to have been there, done that and got the merit badge. Time for the young turks to pick up the torch while I fight a different battle here at home. Hope this battle goes better for us all!

Indeed the case sir..and here we yet are..striving to make sense of "commercial aviation", with all it's inherent insanities..sheesh One thing sadly, and often overlooked by "some" it seems..is the inherent need to have actual "Respect" for pilots. To be fully honest? = Many on these boards are pretty much "I bought my certificate..and..Mom says that I can even fly a thirty-whole -degree bank!!!" the "qualifications" have truly sunk to that level...I'm, very sadly...NOT kidding in the least...as you also, fully know as to how "things are" these days.

PS: And NO intended disrespect to all the tanks/tracks that you folks killed, but... Umm..I DO seem to recall Third Armoured Divison, as having "SOME" slight degree of "interaction" with the Medina Division's obliteration My Bad..we'd have to properly form up, and drink heavilly over all this...in order to "fix" perspectives properly

 

[HogDriver]

hogdriver love the pay idea. but i say just pay a guy for L.O.S. regardless of position. yeah the capt has more resposablility but you know we would all still want the right seat even if it didn't pay more for the same L.O.S. and the senior guys would still mostly more want the big planes even if they paid the same. it would also save the company alot of training $ and keep some of the most senior pilots in the smaller jets flying with the newest fos where their experience would be more usefull. and the contract could contain a prevision for linking pay to avg number of seats per plane in the fleet eg. (numbers are only to keep the math easy for me)
avg fleet size 150 then 150k for a 10 yr pilot if doug buys a bunch of 330's and avg fleet size goes up to 165 then a 10yr pilots pay goes up to 165 with out any negotiation it just happens dollar by dollar anytime a new plane shows up or old one leaves.
what do you think?

I think keeping the concept simple is the best way to sell a new idea like this. Actually, it is not a "new" idea. UPS and BA are two airlines that already have LOS only pay. It makes the larger int'l flying jets the more jr. equipment as senior pilots bid domestic. It will decrease training cycles after a while as pilots stop chasing seats, which would save the company money and make it easier to sell to them. It would also bring the east-west groups closer as there is no compitition for grabbing the higher paying seats. Another reason the co. might bite on the idea.

Leveling the playing field for everyone is the fair and rational way to go.

 

[sagurao]

Just to get a few things straight. for all you guy who think we love alpa out west your wrong. we just don't want an award that we legaly recieved taken away from us. getting alpa back would be my second choise behind keeping usapa and having a judge tell you that the nic sticks.

also i do think it is honorable to ask people to abide by a decision that there reps at the time promised to abide by. just like you guys expect the company not to work you past rules that alpa negotiated for you.

And if you think is was crazy old nic that screwd up then why aren't you just asking to hold the arbitration hearings over again with someone new? 'cause i have enough faith in an outside expert that the result would end up very much the same.

on the subject of honor i wonder how many recalled fo's had to lie about giving up there recall rights to get hired at other companies? also if we could obtain said forms could we have there L.O.S's reduced to zero? I know of one in particular that came back on the west side who had just signed a 2yr commitment 2weeks before he was recalled and he bailed on them. where does that rank on the honor scale?

 

[EastUS]

Just to get a few things straight.

"also i do think it is honorable to ask people to abide by a decision that there reps at the time promised to abide by." yeah..Riiight...can you honestly, even imagine..your personally preaching to me, face to face, about your imaginary "honor"?..when all it amounts to is your trying to take 20 years of flying/service to the company away from my junior comrades?:...Nice try.

WTF do YOU even pretend to know about "Honor"? Let me guess = "I was an AWA "Hero" at the Alpoid Battle of east-west seniority!"???..and...by God Allmaighty...I'm special, and peop;e like me"..so..naturally..some East Pilot's time...I thought nothing of...and I took... Some notions of "honor"...