NMB

[Observer]

We gave everything up in 2003, and yes, everytime the company wants something or moves work from a higher paid classification to a lower paid classification is considered a concession on the unions part, is it not????

I think there's much more hatred towards the TWU INTL leadership from the membership because of the shanangins that your seeing right now with vote for release. In my 21 years at AA, I can't mention one positive event that I can say that the TWU was looking out for the best interest of the AMT. Not one! And that my friend is pretty pathetic considering that the union has collected about $600 a year in dues and the only thing that I've gotten in return has been a $2 calender and perhaps a t-shirt!

In bargainning BOTH sides want "something", that's why it is called bargainning. Both sides argue their position during bargainning to find agreement that the parties agree on. The "deicing issue" was something agreed to in negotiations by the parties, ditto for the push backs. There wasn't a concession at all.

 

[strikeforce]

No, you didn't give "everything" up in 2003. You lost money and workrules. But you also kept more jobs than you should have, pensions stayed intact and so did scope in its entirety.



Again, no.

It's a concession *only* if you get less or nothing in return. If you get something in return, it's a compromise. In 2003,

I'm surprised you or Bob didn't bring up mechanics doing push-backs.

Just because a mechanic once did the job doesn't mean it required the expertise of a mechanic. Stuff like push-backs and deicing were busy-work. Things that were done because the mechanic was there, and couldn't be fixing the airplane while those activities were taking place. They required a bare minimum of skill and training, not a license.

I'm sure mechanics (or their apprentices) probably used to clean up the toilets or sweep up the hangar floor back in the day. Maybe those jobs should return, too?

call it whatever you want, either way the work amt's once did have gone to lower paid workers and to me that's a concession.

well, fleet service checking 737 cargo doors for damage is amt work.....it's part of our scope to inspect for damage, but I don't see the union helping out on that one, and why...because it's still someone from the TWU doing the work.

look, we can go round and round with all of this BS, bottom line is that I lost over $160K in 8 years and nothing has changed at work. The company continues to lose lots of money, keeps nobody accountable, has a very serious parts issue, and continues to mortgage whatever assets remain & accumulate more debt, and then they cry poor everyday. This whole thing is getting old, and the union members are obviously not concerned for the security and financial stability of their families or they would at least take ownership of the contract and at least put some effort to pressure the company to bargain in good faith. One thing is for sure, WE can't continue with the status quo!

 

[Birdman]

The company continues to lose lots of money, keeps nobody accountable, has a very serious parts issue, and continues to mortgage whatever assets remain & accumulate more debt, and then they cry poor everyday.

I recently stated the compAAny was in dire straights but our resident secret negotiations presidents council member/observer disagreed. Your description sounds like a sure fired recipe for failure.

 

[Vortilon]

In bargainning BOTH sides want "something", that's why it is called bargainning. Both sides argue their position during bargainning to find agreement that the parties agree on. The "deicing issue" was something agreed to in negotiations by the parties, ditto for the push backs. There wasn't a concession at all.

That stuff was given away while A/C Maint was still in Fleet Service run locals. De-icing made for some good O/T for those of us in A/C Maint that didn't mind it. As usual, we received nothing in return. Windshield cleaning was given away as well. At some class II stations, fleet is servicing engine oil, and riding brakes. If something was gained for Aircraft Maintenance, I would like to know what it was. The only thing we saw, was the international enabling the company to do whatever they wanted. Fleet Service was tripping over themselves to take work from A/C Maint.. Once again, A/C Maint. took it in the shorts. Bottom line is A/C Maint has never been adequately represented by the TWU.

 

[Hopeful]

That stuff was given away while A/C Maint was still in Fleet Service run locals. De-icing made for some good O/T for those of us in A/C Maint that didn't mind it. As usual, we received nothing in return. Windshield cleaning was given away as well. At some class II stations, fleet is servicing engine oil, and riding brakes. If something was gained for Aircraft Maintenance, I would like to know what it was. The only thing we saw, was the international enabling the company to do whatever they wanted. Fleet Service was tripping over themselves to take work from A/C Maint.. Once again, A/C Maint. took it in the shorts. Bottom line is A/C Maint has never been adequately represented by the TWU.

How true....mechanics have continually lost jobs....regardless of skill level since 1983....
Before AC MX got our separate locals, we were at the mercy of leadership who were mostly NON mechanics....At JFK, for years we have seen ALL aspects of ground handling a contract carrier go to EVERY workgroup OTHER than mechanics...
My then Local President who came from the cabin service ranks told us "half a loaf is better than no loaf."

 

[eolesen]

Washing windows was worthy of an FAA license holder? Now I've seen everything.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Washing windows was worthy of an FAA license holder? Now I've seen everything.

Don't give up so easily, E - it's been a few years since you've been on the property as something other than a guest.

The silliness and BS going on now would beat all you've ever stepped in - you haven't a clue.

 

[strikeforce]

That stuff was given away while A/C Maint was still in Fleet Service run locals. De-icing made for some good O/T for those of us in A/C Maint that didn't mind it. As usual, we received nothing in return. Windshield cleaning was given away as well. At some class II stations, fleet is servicing engine oil, and riding brakes. If something was gained for Aircraft Maintenance, I would like to know what it was. The only thing we saw, was the international enabling the company to do whatever they wanted. Fleet Service was tripping over themselves to take work from A/C Maint.. Once again, A/C Maint. took it in the shorts. Bottom line is A/C Maint has never been adequately represented by the TWU.

where's observer or overspeed to answer your comment regarding the brake riding and oil service at class 2's? I guess they don't want to admit that the TWU gave that away to lower paid workers.

 

[Observer]

where's observer or overspeed to answer your comment regarding the brake riding and oil service at class 2's? I guess they don't want to admit that the TWU gave that away to lower paid workers.

the brake riding was done at class III cities for a long time, mtc was never assigned so work was not lost...................how about when AA INITIALLY went into Atlanta, it was mtc before all other title groups, 2 from ORD, 1 from DTW, and the fourth guy I do not remember...............giving away work you have no idea about..............just as concessions is something that has been twisted in other instances. 2003 was concessions, get your facts straight

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

error

 

[strikeforce]

the brake riding was done at class III cities for a long time, mtc was never assigned so work was not lost...................how about when AA INITIALLY went into Atlanta, it was mtc before all other title groups, 2 from ORD, 1 from DTW, and the fourth guy I do not remember...............giving away work you have no idea about..............just as concessions is something that has been twisted in other instances. 2003 was concessions, get your facts straight

The company at Class 1's require the brake rider to be taxi qualified whenever aircraft are moved, even at the gate. Why is it that the company and union agree to change the rules for class 2 and class 3 stations?
Why doesn't the union force the company to comply with their own policies????

 

[Observer]

The company at Class 1's require the brake rider to be taxi qualified whenever aircraft are moved, even at the gate. Why is it that the company and union agree to change the rules for class 2 and class 3 stations?
Why doesn't the union force the company to comply with their own policies????

you answered your own question................Class I. There were not those restrictions at the small cities. It wasn't a matter of the parties agreeing to some rule change. If there were not amts assigned to a class III, who would you propose to do it.?

 

[strikeforce]

you answered your own question................Class I. There were not those restrictions at the small cities. It wasn't a matter of the parties agreeing to some rule change. If there were not amts assigned to a class III, who would you propose to do it.?

That's a company policy not an airport policy, and if they don't have amt's assigned to class 2's or 3's then the company needs to place amt's in those stations.

 

[Observer]

That's a company policy not an airport policy, and if they don't have amt's assigned to class 2's or 3's then the company needs to place amt's in those stations.

Company policy sets their policy on ground handling, the airport authority sets the policy for movements on the AOA. Those small stations that never had mtc assigned are not going to get amts because the only need is to sit in the cockpit and ride brakes.

 

[Overspeed]

That's a company policy not an airport policy, and if they don't have amt's assigned to class 2's or 3's then the company needs to place amt's in those stations.

Southwest's high paid line mechanics don't ride brakes on all moves. A friend in IAH tells me that Continental uses rampers for every move except in to the hangars.

The FAA or DOA doesn't say which job group does the work. Only that the person is trained to meet all the FAR requirements of moving and aircraft. Show me the language in the contract that says moves are only done by mechanics? Company policy? Airport policy?