NMB

[strikeforce]

Southwest's high paid line mechanics don't ride brakes on all moves. A friend in IAH tells me that Continental uses rampers for every move except in to the hangars.

The FAA or DOA doesn't say which job group does the work. Only that the person is trained to meet all the FAR requirements of moving and aircraft. Show me the language in the contract that says moves are only done by mechanics? Company policy? Airport policy?

Maint. & Related Article 11 description and duties of AMTs states that AMT's taxi-tow. In the Fleet description it states that fleet does pushout/tow of aircraft. Nothing in there about taxi tow. It's the mechanics job to ride brakes because of the A114 qualification. Who rides the brakes during goldhoffer taxi tow.....A114 qualified taxi drivers, i.e. AMT's. The union sold us out in class 2's and 3's and you guys just can't admit it. Your either management or TWU bootlickers hiding behind alias's! Typical union bums!

 

[Observer]

Southwest's high paid line mechanics don't ride brakes on all moves. A friend in IAH tells me that Continental uses rampers for every move except in to the hangars.

The FAA or DOA doesn't say which job group does the work. Only that the person is trained to meet all the FAR requirements of moving and aircraft. Show me the language in the contract that says moves are only done by mechanics? Company policy? Airport policy?

The Company sets policy has to what qualifications are required to taxi, tow, operate radios, and etc. The airport authority controls movements with the FAA. Wasn't there an issue with the high speed tractors at several stations, on manning requirements?

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/10/twu-negotiators-to-ask-nmb-for.html


So close but yet so far...

 

[strikeforce]

The Company sets policy has to what qualifications are required to taxi, tow, operate radios, and etc. The airport authority controls movements with the FAA. Wasn't there an issue with the high speed tractors at several stations, on manning requirements?

The GPM sets the quals for taxi tow and radio comm. The A114 qual for taxi tow and A113 for right seat comm. matter of fact there was debate about aircraft movement recently regarding a compass swing and the Line was supplying the driver A114 qual and Avionics questioned if they could ride right seat without either quals and management said no! So, tell me what quals does that fleet service clerk have to ride the brakes during aircraft movement???? Do they have the A113 qual for radio comm with ramp or ATC??? If they do then they're violating the Maint. & Related contract.

 

[Observer]

Maint. & Related Article 11 description and duties of AMTs states that AMT's taxi-tow. In the Fleet description it states that fleet does pushout/tow of aircraft. Nothing in there about taxi tow. It's the mechanics job to ride brakes because of the A114 qualification. Who rides the brakes during goldhoffer taxi tow.....A114 qualified taxi drivers, i.e. AMT's. The union sold us out in class 2's and 3's and you guys just can't admit it. Your either management or TWU bootlickers hiding behind alias's! Typical union bums!

Class I cities have maint assigned, cities that do not have amts staffed, can either have their regularly assigned personnel, or have a local contractor do it. It has been the PAST PRACTICE for years. Nobody sold anybody out. Class I cities have all title groups employed on property, small cities do not. You might not like it, but it is what it is and not a sell out, not a concession, just business.

 

[Overspeed]

Maint. & Related Article 11 description and duties of AMTs states that AMT's taxi-tow. In the Fleet description it states that fleet does pushout/tow of aircraft. Nothing in there about taxi tow. It's the mechanics job to ride brakes because of the A114 qualification. Who rides the brakes during goldhoffer taxi tow.....A114 qualified taxi drivers, i.e. AMT's. The union sold us out in class 2's and 3's and you guys just can't admit it. Your either management or TWU bootlickers hiding behind alias's! Typical union bums!

Right. Fleet can do tow as you have stated. In some stations there are aircraft cleaners riding brakes. The training department flies all over the system to train fleet service clerks for years to ride brakes in non-maintenance staffed stations. Are you that closed minded that AA was no moving aircraft in other stations? And as for Class 3's, those are cities where AA staffs mechanics at night and contractors do the on-call. Fleet moved the aircraft up in the mornings.

Goldhofer staffing is also set by AA. The tractor was developed in Europe and when our TCC came back from checking them out at the factory it was demonstrated and in use at European airports without anyone in the cockpit. In some cases he said they used drivers that had a tractor truck driving permit. Apparently the Europeans must be better trained than us.

The reality of your position is that you just want to keep all the jobs because it has always been that way. Meanwhile other companies are finding ways to do it cheaper and more effectively using there qualified people doing the work they are licensed for. This isn't the heavily regulated industry of the 70s and earlier.

 

[strikeforce]

Right. Fleet can do tow as you have stated. In some stations there are aircraft cleaners riding brakes. The training department flies all over the system to train fleet service clerks for years to ride brakes in non-maintenance staffed stations. Are you that closed minded that AA was no moving aircraft in other stations? And as for Class 3's, those are cities where AA staffs mechanics at night and contractors do the on-call. Fleet moved the aircraft up in the mornings.

Goldhofer staffing is also set by AA. The tractor was developed in Europe and when our TCC came back from checking them out at the factory it was demonstrated and in use at European airports without anyone in the cockpit. In some cases he said they used drivers that had a tractor truck driving permit. Apparently the Europeans must be better trained than us.

The reality of your position is that you just want to keep all the jobs because it has always been that way. Meanwhile other companies are finding ways to do it cheaper and more effectively using there qualified people doing the work they are licensed for. This isn't the heavily regulated industry of the 70s and earlier.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on the subject. Let's move on!

 

[Hopeful]

The reality of your position is that you just want to keep all the jobs because it has always been that way. Meanwhile other companies are finding ways to do it cheaper and more effectively using there qualified people doing the work they are licensed for. This isn't the heavily regulated industry of the 70s and earlier.

I think you are missing the argument as I see it.
This is not so much that we LOST jobs as it is that we LOST jobs when our union locals were RUN by fleet service because they had the sheer numbers to ALWAYS elect THEIR people..
When we were at the mercy of fleet service presidents and at JFK more than once the same aircraft cleaner was our prez, we were continually told that "HALF A LOAF IS BETTER THAN NO LOAF."


Overspeed, this is about sins of the past where we were dictated to by work groups who could have cared less about our issues!

 

[eolesen]

Great. They're sins of the past. Time to get over it and move on...

 

[strikeforce]

Great. They're sins of the past. Time to get over it and move on...

I'll move on, but I just want to say that the sins of the past are the ones tearing apart the union. The arguements regarding Line vs. OH, are the same when it was AMT's vs. Fleet. This fight will continue until each local is truly autonomous from the others. Each local should set their own GEO and MRT pay, and out of pocket medical deductibles without the influence of the 800lb gorilla shoving their desires down my throat.

 

[strikeforce]

I just want to make something perfectly clear regarding the TWU's intention's to formally ask the NMB for release in November if a T/A is not reached by then. The TWU better have a PLAN in place prior to asking for release. The union has a duty to formally notify the membership of it's intentions and actions the union will take that put's the membership at risk of losing employment by seeking self help. I would advise Bob Owens that prior to asking for release that the negotiating committee create a formal plan for the membership, and ask the membership by ballot or some other means to see if the membership is really ready for release. The TWU is playing with people's lives and the INTL better be ready for release because there might be chance that the NMB will honor our request, and or American Airlines may just ask for release in the near future, and if WE'RE not ready......then what???

 

[paul1]

I just want to make something perfectly clear regarding the TWU's intention's to formally ask the NMB for release in November if a T/A is not reached by then. The TWU better have a PLAN in place prior to asking for release. The union has a duty to formally notify the membership of it's intentions and actions the union will take that put's the membership at risk of losing employment by seeking self help. I would advise Bob Owens that prior to asking for release that the negotiating committee create a formal plan for the membership, and ask the membership by ballot or some other means to see if the membership is really ready for release. The TWU is playing with people's lives and the INTL better be ready for release because there might be chance that the NMB will honor our request, and or American Airlines may just ask for release in the near future, and if WE'RE not ready......then what???

when you voted down the last T/A is when you gave the ok to strike, by voting NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you not read the company slanted ballot!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully the nmb releases us and we get a PEB or what everelse is thrown are way!!!!!!!!!!!! To strike what are we striking over all the prez. cann't agree 100% to be released

they have dug there heals in so far, they want to save face, Do they really care about you?

 

[strikeforce]

when you voted down the last T/A is when you gave the ok to strike, by voting NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you not read the company slanted ballot!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully the nmb releases us and we get a PEB or what everelse is thrown are way!!!!!!!!!!!! To strike what are we striking over all the prez. cann't agree 100% to be released

they have dug there heals in so far, they want to save face, Do they really care about you?

I'm just saying, Paul. The union may not care but, they have a fiduciary responsiblity to the membership. The pilots at TWA sued the ALPA and won for failure to properly represent the pilots during the AA/TWA purchase.

It doesn't matter about what percent voted which way....the president's council and negotiating committe represent the TWU and a motion passed to formally ask the NMB for release...and with that, the majority of the membership gave the union approval to go that route. Now, there are some that argue it was only a formality, but now you are witnessing the ramifications of that letter included with your ballot.

By formally asking the NMB for release brings with it enormous risks to the union and company. The only thing that I will say is "preparation" is key, and right now I don't believe the leadership is prepared for a release. I've asked for the TWU's gameplan going forward, and now WE know it, and WE should all be preparing for the worst, and hoping for the best outcome. If the vote count is any indication of how prepared the TWU leadership is.....WE are all in BIG trouble!!!

 

[eolesen]

I doubt you"ll win a DFR claim over the union being ill-prepared.

And yes, while it is a grave responsibility that the leadership has, you guys voted to allow the union to take whatever actions were necessary, up to and including self-help.

At least with Obummer, we get a chance to re-validate his employment contract. Because there was no drop-dead on your vote, there's not much recourse aside from decertification. I don't think there's a ballot initiative in the TWU's constitution which would allow you guys to re-vote.

 

[strikeforce]

I doubt you"ll win a DFR claim over the union being ill-prepared.

And yes, while it is a grave responsibility that the leadership has, you guys voted to allow the union to take whatever actions were necessary, up to and including self-help.

At least with Obummer, we get a chance to re-validate his employment contract. Because there was no drop-dead on your vote, there's not much recourse aside from decertification. I don't think there's a ballot initiative in the TWU's constitution which would allow you guys to re-vote.

I don't want a re-vote. I gave my approval to take whatever actions up to and including self-help because I understood what that letter meant. But, some jokers on this forum believe it's just a formality without really knowing the ramifications of voting no. some have this belief that everything will be ok, but I know AA will not settle with the mechanics unless they get more relief, and I just don't see that happening.....at least not right now. So, people should at least be getting themselves prepared for a strike. That's the way I see it playing out.