FA's urging Obama on NMB

[FA Mikey]

You mean to say if they opened the contractand every FA took a pay cut, then AA would not furlough 343 FA's. I wonder in value how steep the savings to the company VS the cost of 343 FA's would have been? If the statement were in fact true and not another I heard from someone.

You heard Linda Puchala, is going to be unsympathetic to APFA. or just being vindictive and hoping so? If she did side against APFA or the company simply because she has it out for one or the other, then I would say she would be a very poor pick.

 

[Royal Ambassador]

Not a pay cut. A small reduction of the monthly hours guarantee in the spirit of the President's praise: "...the selflessness of workers who would rather cut their hours than see a friend lose their job..."

F/a's would still have been able to trade and pick up trips (TT, OE and OT). High time fliers would not have been affected .

I know for a fact that Jason Davis made those statements. I doubt that he was lying.

 

[FA Mikey]

So you say he said it. It is in print some where? When was the last time you thought it would be a good idea to open the contract and ask everyone to take a pay cut and hope AA still doesnt furlough those people or others in the fall?


I still say if it were true, its a load of crap. Asking 18,000 people to take a cut in pay or work an extra day, make a permanent change to their CBA in order for AA not to furlough at this time 343 people doesnt fly. The company already showed their true colors by limiting the number of people and not having to give a WARN notice.

 

[Royal Ambassador]

I am sure that the negotiating committee has it in writing. All I have is word, and that is good enough for me.

President Obama thought it was a good idea for workers to cut down their hours in order to save their colleagues' jobs. Do you disagree with him?


Moderator note:
This name has been moved per request .

 

[FA Mikey]

He is not dealing with AMR.

 

[Royal Ambassador]

I take it to mean that you disagree with the President's call for shared sacrifice to see us through these troubled times.

 

[butchord45]

Dear APFA,

Quit whining because you don't like the refs. You sound like a bunch of hacks at a weekend basketball league.

Get to the table with your merry band of negotiators and NEGOTIATE!!!!!

Butch

I take it to mean that you disagree with the President's call for shared sacrifice to see us through these troubled times.

 

[FA Mikey]

Thats not shared sacrifice. I am sure you have dealt with AA long enough to know how it operates. No one is going to give up more hours and money to AA because they promise to forestall the furloughs of 343 people. Especially since they have also announced plans to further cut back flying. How many hours will they need the FA's to give up to halt the next round of furloughs?

As I said before AA is going under the wire to ship out 343 people with little to no notice and then you want me to believe they really wanted to find a way to save the jobs. Sorry I am not buying it. Too bad they didnt try something like a new deal with part time flying more flexible leaves.

 

[STAAPLED]

"I still say if it were true, its a load of crap. Asking 18,000 people to take a cut in pay or work an extra day, make a permanent change to their CBA in order for AA not to furlough at this time 343 people doesnt fly. The company already showed their true colors by limiting the number of people and not having to give a WARN notice."

Correction, this is affecting more than 343 people. And why the deflection about the "company showing their true colors"? It is the union's job to protect everyone's job. We are talking about APFA, not the company.

This not only affects those soon to be furloughed, but those left on the recall list as well. Mikey, where are the union principles here? And what is so hard to understand about 18,000 people not working an extra day? The President has asked that workers cut their hours, in order for other people to not lose their jobs.

I've been reading this board now for a good 7 years and have not posted for fear of being bashed anytime I bring up the whole integration mess (or lack of one), so I stopped. But here I am now, 7 years into the furlough, in my mid 50's, after having started my career over 30 yrs ago. I was 2 months away from turning 50 when I got furloughed, so I was unable to retire on furlough. And up to that point, I was right on track for saving and contributing enough money for retirement.

18 months into the furlough, with no health insurance, (because I couldn't afford it), I encountered some medical problems, common for people in their 50's, that went undiagnosed and untreated. A year after that, (still with no job), I was forced to finally seek medical attention, and when it was all said and done, went into debt to the tune of $100,000. My 401k and savings were wiped out in a matter of 2 years. I have been working at a job now, (with health insurance) for about a third of what I used to make. I am unable to save any money and when most people in their 50's are socking away money for retirement, I can not. As a result, I will now have to work the rest of my life, because I simply can't afford retirement and I sometimes think, is it even worth having to live through this?

I loved my career as a flight attendant, and I was an above average flight attendant. Trying to find a new job or career in your 50's has not been easy for me, especially during this economic crisis. And (much to my surprise), I have found that age discrimination is alive and well.

In hindsight now, I have determined that what APFA did by putting a group of older workers on the bottom of their seniority list (because some were afraid of our seniority) was just blatant age discrimination. It could have turned out different, provided ethical union principles were used, but they weren't.

I, and a couple of thousand other people, are now living with the consequences of that infamous SIA and I do not wish to revisit the reasons as to why it was done. My only hope is at this point, that with time, it will be shown that APFA was on the wrong side of labor history.

 

[FA Mikey]

Age discrimination, seniority protection call it what you want. No body (except maybe JW) wanted to see anyone furloughed, let alone two times.

But here and now, pretending AA made this secret offer to APFA, wanting to avoid furloughs. How many hours and how much pay does everyone have to give to save 343 jobs? What kind of protection would AA promise to keep them, since we have another round flight cuts coming up? AA knows a change like that cutting pay would have to go through a 30 day vote. Wait a minute they only gave 30 days notice to the people furloughed. Sounds like AA BS, they wanted to avoid furloughs. If that were the case then lets negotiate leave that can save jobs and not cut peoples pay. But that doesnt benefit the company so I see why that wont fly.

 

[IORFA]

HERE HERE MIKEY!!!!!! Some people so want their job back, they would rather sacrifice the profession for everyone. No thanks. I whole heartedly disagree with that path.

 

[Royal Ambassador]

But here and now, pretending AA made this secret offer to APFA, wanting to avoid furloughs. How many hours and how much pay does everyone have to give to save 343 jobs? What kind of protection would AA promise to keep them, since we have another round flight cuts coming up?

No one is pretending. Don't take my word for it, contact Jason Davis. I am sure you can locate his phone number and email in the employees directory on Jetnet.

Besides, I was just forwarded Brent Peterson's email on the subject. Here is the union's spin:

Earlier this year there were discussions which resulted from our regular Joint Scheduling Committee meetings in which the company said they could lower line averages by two hours which would provide more trips to the FAs who held Open Replacement schedules. Since the average line value is a contractual item we could not lower the average for this purpose outside of negotiations and ratification.

More trips for f/a's holding availability lines would have reduced the overage that resulted in furloughs. Side letters are fine for every purpose, except savings jobs.

 

[Maark767]

"I still say if it were true, its a load of crap. Asking 18,000 people to take a cut in pay or work an extra day, make a permanent change to their CBA in order for AA not to furlough at this time 343 people doesnt fly. The company already showed their true colors by limiting the number of people and not having to give a WARN notice."

Correction, this is affecting more than 343 people. And why the deflection about the "company showing their true colors"? It is the union's job to protect everyone's job. We are talking about APFA, not the company.

This not only affects those soon to be furloughed, but those left on the recall list as well. Mikey, where are the union principles here? And what is so hard to understand about 18,000 people not working an extra day? The President has asked that workers cut their hours, in order for other people to not lose their jobs.

I've been reading this board now for a good 7 years and have not posted for fear of being bashed anytime I bring up the whole integration mess (or lack of one), so I stopped. But here I am now, 7 years into the furlough, in my mid 50's, after having started my career over 30 yrs ago. I was 2 months away from turning 50 when I got furloughed, so I was unable to retire on furlough. And up to that point, I was right on track for saving and contributing enough money for retirement.

18 months into the furlough, with no health insurance, (because I couldn't afford it), I encountered some medical problems, common for people in their 50's, that went undiagnosed and untreated. A year after that, (still with no job), I was forced to finally seek medical attention, and when it was all said and done, went into debt to the tune of $100,000. My 401k and savings were wiped out in a matter of 2 years. I have been working at a job now, (with health insurance) for about a third of what I used to make. I am unable to save any money and when most people in their 50's are socking away money for retirement, I can not. As a result, I will now have to work the rest of my life, because I simply can't afford retirement and I sometimes think, is it even worth having to live through this?

I loved my career as a flight attendant, and I was an above average flight attendant. Trying to find a new job or career in your 50's has not been easy for me, especially during this economic crisis. And (much to my surprise), I have found that age discrimination is alive and well.

In hindsight now, I have determined that what APFA did by putting a group of older workers on the bottom of their seniority list (because some were afraid of our seniority) was just blatant age discrimination. It could have turned out different, provided ethical union principles were used, but they weren't.

I, and a couple of thousand other people, are now living with the consequences of that infamous SIA and I do not wish to revisit the reasons as to why it was done. My only hope is at this point, that with time, it will be shown that APFA was on the wrong side of labor history.

Please know this..... APFA can only do so much.... They cant walk in and demand the world and then walk out. You have not worked for AA so you dont know how AA management works. They always have the finally say and the union has the seocnd say..... It's just how things are done here....
I'm sure you'll have a reply to this comment but once again, you must work here to understand...

 

[AC AA LA FA]

...humm..I don't remember AA Management having the last say in November of 93...????

 

[FA Mikey]

Amazing not 2 words about the company that used a slight of hand trick (although within the law) to cut out 343 people with out a WARN letter and time to prepare.

All I see here is how APFA failed. FYI American laid these people off. American did it in the most underhanded way they could. Then they put out there how they wanted to find a way to avoid it, but that pesky union would let them help these poor flight attendants.

With all three labor groups in protracted negotiations, all of a sudden AA said they could find a way to work something out. Now if all 18000 FA's agree to a 2 hour cut in pay and credit for, forever. We will not furlough these 343 people for a couple of months. At least until the next cut back, my guess the end of summer.

Then you can agree to an additional couple hours cut in pay and credit to keep the 343 people on the line and any others we were going to furlough. BTW APFA, if you ever want those hours, pay and credit back, tell us what else you are willing to give to get that back.