Nick Aaronson

[luvn737s]

Either the Mexico City Policia are much more willing to babble on about ongoing investigations or folks on here want to repeat rumors about the death of a fellow co-worker. Which do you think it is?

 

[SparrowHawk]

The victim brought someone to his room. against the advise of hotel security, to which they required nick to sign the guy in.

Thats' all Nick's choice.

If true and I/we have no way of knowing if your assertion is accurate or a work of fiction, it may or may not change a thing.

When I read it my first thought was, "OK, so why is a company putting it's employees in a hotel in a questionable area"? Now I've never been to Mexico City so maybe one hotel is as bad as the next and the entire city is a dung heap of crime.

One thing I am curious about is does US Airways as part of the Flight Attendant Training have a session on personal security?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

I hope they sue you for libel, jerk it really is inexcusable to come here and try and profit from his death. You are scum!!

Why does PHX hire incoherent little children.

Try raging against the cheap tempe corporate mindset apparent in those who place saving the almighty dollar over the lives of their employees. Who cannot seem to find time to acquaint their own relative new-hires with the fact that what may work in the states will likely have unintended consequences in other places, especially in places where kidnappings and murders happen every day, like Mexico City.

You go ahead and grieve over someone you never knew. Meanwhile the rest of us, instead of feeling sorry for ourselves like you, will expend our energy by trying to ensure this does not happen again. You can be a part of the problem or a part of the solution. So far all I have read from you is your choice to be a part of the problem, but, that is your choice.

It would really be a shame if someone else died under similar circumstances while you were "grieving" and otherwise feeling sorry for yourself. Wouldn't it?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Why does PHX hire incoherent little children.

Try raging against the cheap tempe corporate mindset apparent in those who place saving the almighty dollar over the lives of their employees. Who cannot seem to find time to acquaint their own relative new-hires with the fact that what may work in the states will likely have unintended consequences in other places, especially in places where kidnappings and murders happen every day, like Mexico City.

You go ahead and grieve over someone you never knew. Meanwhile the rest of us, instead of feeling sorry for ourselves like you, will expend our energy by trying to ensure this does not happen again. You can be a part of the problem or a part of the solution. So far all I have read from you is your choice to be a part of the problem, but, that is your choice.

It would really be a shame if someone else died under similar circumstances while you were "grieving" and otherwise feeling sorry for yourself. Wouldn't it?

Only the truly delusional would try to place blame on Management for what boils down to personal choices and senseless criminal conduct. There was nothing Management could have done to prevent this. The crew hotel was safe, but the alleged choices made by the employee turned out not to be safe. Management cannot control the choices crew members make once they deplane and head to the hotel. Management cannot control who crew members meet in a bar or other hook up spot and do background checks on them. Management cannot control who may be invited into a crew member's hotel room or what the crew member may choose to do while in the the hotel room. Any suggestion otherwise is just pure lunacy.

These were all personal choices that turned out very badly this time. US Airways isn't the military and they cannot lock crew members away during off hours to ensure they don't get mixed up in questionable, dangerous or immoral behavior so as to ensure everyone's safety. If they did employees far and wide would be screaming that their personal rights to do as they wish when not on the clock had been violated. You can hate Management all you like because they continually outsmart you and your east pilot cohorts, but blaming the poor choices made by an employee and the criminal conduct of a foreign national on Management makes you look desperate with a dearth of basic cognitive reasoning abilities.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Only the truly delusional would try to place blame on Management for what boils down to personal choices and senseless criminal conduct. There was nothing Management could have done to prevent this. The crew hotel was safe, but the alleged choices made by the employee turned out not to be safe. Management cannot control the choices crew members make once they deplane and head to the hotel. Management cannot control who crew members meet in a bar or other hook up spot and do background checks on them. Management cannot control who may be invited into a crew member's hotel room or what the crew member may choose to do while in the the hotel room. Any suggestion otherwise is just pure lunacy.

These were all personal choices that turned out very badly this time. US Airways isn't the military and they cannot lock crew members away during off hours to ensure they don't get mixed up in questionable, dangerous or immoral behavior so as to ensure everyone's safety. If they did employees far and wide would be screaming that their personal rights to do as they wish when not on the clock had been violated. You can hate Management all you like because they continually outsmart you and your east pilot cohorts, but blaming the poor choices made by an employee and the criminal conduct of a foreign national on Management makes you look desperate with a dearth of basic cognitive reasoning abilities.

With all due respect Callaway, You're asking people to take your word that the hotel was safe. Safe as in "Safest Cheap Hotel"? Safe as compared to other hotels in the area? Safe by United States standards? Or safe by third world banana republic stands?

How many people were found murdered in this hotel over the last 24 months? How does it compare to murder rates at other hotels?

US Airways could be liable in a limited way in that they have a responsibility to take "reasonable" measures to ensure their employee safety. If this hotel is some el cheapo roach coach in an area known for criminal activity US Airways could have some exposure legally. People raise the issue because of Tempe's, "Price of everything, value Nothing" approach to business. Sadly this could be yet another example of the high cost of cheap.

 

[CallawayGolf]

With all due respect Callaway, You're asking people to take your word that the hotel was safe. Safe as in "Safest Cheap Hotel"? Safe as compared to other hotels in the area? Safe by United States standards? Or safe by third world banana republic stands?

How many people were found murdered in this hotel over the last 24 months? How does it compare to murder rates at other hotels?

US Airways could be liable in a limited way in that they have a responsibility to take "reasonable" measures to ensure their employee safety. If this hotel is some el cheapo roach coach in an area known for criminal activity US Airways could have some exposure legally. People raise the issue because of Tempe's, "Price of everything, value Nothing" approach to business. Sadly this could be yet another example of the high cost of cheap.

Perhaps it would help in your understanding and evaluation to know that pilots and flight attendants have hotel committees which participate in the selection and vetoing of hotels for crews. Management does just pick any old hotel; there are contractual requirements for the properties selected. Furthermore, Corporate Security can also refuse a property if it does not meet with their security requirements. If it was unsafe or prone to criminal acts, the property would not be used.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Perhaps it would help in your understanding and evaluation to know that pilots and flight attendants have hotel committees which participate in the selection and vetoing of hotels for crews. Management does just pick any old hotel; there are contractual requirements for the properties selected. Furthermore, Corporate Security can also refuse a property if it does not meet with their security requirements. If it was unsafe or prone to criminal acts, the property would not be used.

That's good to know. However when I traveled every week for business one of the ways you could tell you picked the wrong property was when you saw lot's of flight crews staying there. This is NOT specific to US Airways but most domestic carriers. Some of the worst roach coaches I stayed in often included flight crews from??????? YEP, Southwest.

Conversely if you saw flight crews from the International carrier like BA, Virgin Atlantic, Lufthansa you were usually in a pretty damn fine hotel. Thinking specifically of the Marriott Uniondale.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Perhaps it would help in your understanding and evaluation to know that pilots and flight attendants have hotel committees which participate in the selection and vetoing of hotels for crews. Management does just pick any old hotel; there are contractual requirements for the properties selected. Furthermore, Corporate Security can also refuse a property if it does not meet with their security requirements. If it was unsafe or prone to criminal acts, the property would not be used.

Yes, just like "corporate security" approved the RIO hotel, two months after they had a gun battle in the lobby. and, trying to put the onus off on the unions is just plain lying. They have no veto authority and you know it.

and, yes, management doesn't _just_ pick (any) hotel, they pick the ones who give the best back to management.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Conversely if you saw flight crews from the International carrier like BA, Virgin Atlantic, Lufthansa you were usually in a pretty damn fine hotel. Thinking specifically of the Marriott Uniondale.

US has pretty much moved away from the hotels used by other carriers, Munich, Barcelona, Dublin, Amsterdam, etc., even when the former hotels matched the rates, our trailer trash corporate electric vibrators went otherwise.

Interesting to me that all our changes went in the direction of her boyfriend's company. None otherwise. Wonder why?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

These were all personal choices that turned out very badly this time. US Airways isn't the military and they cannot lock crew members away during off hours to ensure they don't get mixed up in questionable, dangerous or immoral behavior so as to ensure everyone's safety.

You have new hires, nimrod. They have, for the most part, never been outside the US. You owe them the opportunity to make such decisions based on the latest available information. I could go so far as to say that it is people like you that allowed the FA to be murdered, which, in a real sense, should make you an accomplice to his murder.

Yes, he made a personal choice, based on a vacuum of information, something the corporation should be held accountable for. When was he briefed that Mexico City was dangerous, even to mexicans? I have two friends who live there who sent me scads of information available to you, the corporation, that should have made available to any crew member staying in that area.

Heck, even the state department has warnings about the area. Were it not for the lazy drunks in tempe, the gentleman would, at least, have had a chance. tempe gave him none. They sent a diver into the shark tank with no protection, then tried to blame the inevitable death upon the diver.

Criminals.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Yes, just like "corporate security" approved the RIO hotel, two months after they had a gun battle in the lobby. and, trying to put the onus off on the unions is just plain lying. They have no veto authority and you know it.

and, yes, management doesn't _just_ pick (any) hotel, they pick the ones who give the best back to management.

You know when it comes to US Senior Management I'm not exactly "Defender of the Realm". I kind of have to support US a little bit. These are merely observations from 10 years on the road and 23 years as Traffic ^ Safety Director of two music festivals

1. I can think of three properties that I'd never stay in again. Interestingly enough they were all inhabited by US AND WN Flight crews. Not sure what that says but it says something.

2. Working as Traffic & Safety Director, I can tell you first hand it's nearly impossible to prepare for every contingency. The minute you think you've planned for everything is the minute you're screwed.

3. Corporate Security from another country is shown only enough to convince them to spend the Yankee Dollar in their establishment.

The sad part here is that no matter what actually happened, Nick Aaronson won't be any less dead and I don't think we should forget that. Now is not the time for recriminations, but to take the event and apply the lessons learned so that no one need be murdered again.

 

[etops1]

If only.

Continually screwing up wet dreams or one car funerals hardly qualifies a group as "lackluster". Though, they do seem to excel in the area of putting their employees "at risk" just to save a buck. I'd love to see the employees force management to confront the full cost of such decisions, individually as well as collectively.

I consider Mr. Aaronson's death to be a result of, at least, willful negligence on the part of the corporation.

I know I am going to get blocked because of this post but you sir are a f###ing Idiot !! Period!!

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

2. Working as Traffic & Safety Director, I can tell you first hand it's nearly impossible to prepare for every contingency. The minute you think you've planned for everything is the minute you're screwed.

As a former chief pilot of a mult-national corporation, I can agree. However, there are basic and foundational precepts that need to be enforced. Which are not, here, despite warning letters from me countered with "cost considerations". Fine, you want that POV, great, just be prepared to personally pay for that decision.

The sad part here is that no matter what actually happened, Nick Aaronson won't be any less dead and I don't think we should forget that. Now is not the time for recriminations, but to take the event and apply the lessons learned so that no one need be murdered again.

I disagree with the lack of recriminations and agree with the last. Completely. Accountability is completely lacking here.

The name outside my office was "Accountability". I put it there. I cannot understand why the lazy drunks in tempe get away with this. Why do americans allow these bastards to get away with what I and mostly rational people, would consider grossly criminal behavior?

Now is the time call all the chips in and cause the outfit to take a different stance. You want to be management, then so be it. Be accountable for all your decisions, good or bad.

Americans give way too much of a pass for simply lazy and bad behavior. Especially when cloaked in corporate clothing.

 

[crazystnic]

Perhaps it would help in your understanding and evaluation to know that pilots and flight attendants have hotel committees which participate in the selection and vetoing of hotels for crews. Management does just pick any old hotel; there are contractual requirements for the properties selected. Furthermore, Corporate Security can also refuse a property if it does not meet with their security requirements. If it was unsafe or prone to criminal acts, the property would not be used.

give me a break, the hotel committee has very little power in these decisions... sorry it's managmenet that makes the hotel choices..
and as in all AWA decisons.. It's cheap cheap cheap first.
see the recent grievance...

Sympathy to Mr Aaronson is what is now due...

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

I know I am going to get blocked because of this post but you sir are a f###ing Idiot !! Period!!

Why do you "know" you will be blocked? Are you an idiot, yourself?

Oh, wait. I flew with you. No need to ask.