USAirways flight attendants lose boarding by seniority greviance

[pjirish317]

FWAAA,

I am not understanding the point you are trying to make. If the grievance prevails, then Parker has no choice but to reinstate D.O.H. boarding priority. Because it also states in our CBA we are afforded the EXACT SAME company travel privelages as everybody else. He can't do seperate policies. So I'm not sure what you are saying here exactly.

 

[pjirish317]

weAAsles,

I get you guys like FCFS, I do, but most of us here understand that flying non-rev, there may be some "bumps" that would cause your "monetary hardships" so to speak. That can happen with either FCFS or D.O.H. And I realize that PMAA are very senior, but that doesn't mean we will all be taking the same flights, on the same days, ect. ect. ect. Seniority is all we have left, so the way parker is treating this non-rev boarding issue, IMO, tell me he does not care about seniority at all. who's to say he want to have everything be FCFS, vacation bidding, shifts and days off, everything. How would you feel then? Yes it is extreme, but it is a negotiated item, and could be negotiated away.

 

[WeAAsles]

Not a flame, a serious question. What is it about FCFS that people like? I've never used it.

One issue I have as a crew member is that often we are in the air, thus unable to check-in 24 hours in advance.

It's not about what we like more so than what we are used to. But we are also of the mindset of fairness. I have 19 years at AA and if that's more time than you I should not be able to show up at the last minute and bump you if you have been waiting your turn in line. To me doing that smacks of an elitist mentality.

 

[blue collar]

I've worked under both policies, and i agree with weaasles on this one. FCFS is a fairer wa, although I don't know how it works with the 24hr check in window. When I was at AA, I believe it was 4 hours prior. At WN, it is 2 hours. I didn't really have any problems at US, partly because it didn't matter if you had '79 seniority or '99 seniority- the planes were so full no one was getting on.

 

[FWAAA]

Not a flame, a serious question. What is it about FCFS that people like? I've never used it.

One issue I have as a crew member is that often we are in the air, thus unable to check-in 24 hours in advance.

I believe that people like it because they don't see FCFS as impeding their ability to get on a flight when they're off the clock.   When you're working and on the clock, seniority is everything.   When you're occupying leftover seats that AA can't sell, you ain't working and every employee is equal.
 
True, sometimes you're in the air and other employees are on the ground, and they may have an advantage.   But when you aren't in the air, those other employees might be in the air, and thus you have the advantage.   You're not always going to be in the air exactly 24 hours in advance.   
 

FWAAA,

I am not understanding the point you are trying to make. If the grievance prevails, the Parker has no choice but to reinstate D.O.H. boarding priority. Because it also states in our CBA we are afforded the EXACT SAME company travel privelages asd everybody else. He can't do seperate policies. So I'm not sure what you are saying here exactly.

What I'm saying is that even if you win the grievance, AA won't have to board ALL employees by DOH just because some of them had a contract that provided that NRSA boarding priority would be by DOH.  
 
As you point out, you can't do separate policies for different workgroups, so the only remedy is money.    Parker would owe your workgroup money.   But how much money?   How do you quantify what some members of your workgroup lost?   Especially when a bunch of your workgroup gained by the FCFS policy?

 

[700UW]

PJ,
 
Read what you wrote, if everyone in the company and its policy is FCFS, how is providing DOH for fleet the same as everyone else in the company?

 

[pjirish317]

 

PJ,
 
Read what you wrote, if everyone in the company and its policy is FCFS, how is providing DOH for fleet the same as everyone else in the company?

 I said they cant do seperate policies.

 

[pjirish317]

FWAAA,

He can't just "pay" us off. It was negotiated in the CBA, it would have to be negotiated out. In the end, it will all come down to if the grievance is won or not. Until then its a moot point.

 

[WeAAsles]

weAAsles,

I get you guys like FCFS, I do, but most of us here understand that flying non-rev, there may be some "bumps" that would cause your "monetary hardships" so to speak. That can happen with either FCFS or D.O.H. And I realize that PMAA are very senior, but that doesn't mean we will all be taking the same flights, on the same days, ect. ect. ect. Seniority is all we have left, so the way parker is treating this non-rev boarding issue, IMO, tell me he does not care about seniority at all. who's to say he want to have everything be FCFS, vacation bidding, shifts and days off, everything. How would you feel then? Yes it is extreme, but it is a negotiated item, and could be negotiated away.

It's irrelevant what we like or don't like if the union prevails in it's grievance and an arbitrator upholds that your contract is clear for seniority boarding. But then you would have to consider two possibilities? The company may only be obligated to follow that rule on US designated aircraft or they could also impose that seniority will be the rule for all members in the represented craft on "both" sides of the fence?

It may not be a contractual item on our side but it could be imposed creating a situation where the IAM would have to decide should they file another grievance possibly causing animosity towards our alliance or would it be better to just let that one go? Would they be contractually bound to file the grievance?

Nice can of worms there.

 

[jimntx]

Not a flame, a serious question. What is it about FCFS that people like? I've never used it.

One issue I have as a crew member is that often we are in the air, thus unable to check-in 24 hours in advance.

I am a flight attendant who commuted for over 6 years from DFW to STL--not my choice...when I was recalled from furlough, DFW where I had been based and where I lived was not on the list of available bases I could bid on (LGA and DCA were the other 2 choices.  I may be crazy, but I ain't stupid).  I would have had to move to STL if DOH had been the boarding standard.  Over 90% of the STL f/a base commuted at that time, and almost all of them were senior to me.
 
As it was, there were a number of times that I had to commute up much earlier than would appear necessary and spend the night at my crash pad because the flights the next morning were already booked with only jumpseats available for f/a commuters.  It wasn't worth risking a missed trip to try to be one of the first two people checking in 24 hours in advance.
 
If you know you are going to be in the air at the time the 24-hour check-in window opens, then you list for a different flight.  More than one STL commuter never learned that lesson.  They insisted on listing for the last flight that would get them to STL in time for their trip check-in.  Then they would go out to DFW and try to get someone who was checked in ahead of them to surrender their boarding pass because "Man, you gotta let me have your boarding pass.  I already have two missed trips, and they are talking about terminating me."  No, you list for a flight that you have a better chance of getting on.
 
Neither system is perfect, but I never had a missed trip as a result of commuting, and there are a lot of other PMAA f/as who can say the same who have been commuting for years on the FCFS system.  And, what I like about it is that I have an equal chance with every other employee to get a non-rev seat on the plane.
 
To the person who said they don't understand how FCFS works, it's very simple.  There is an app on the computer (AA's, not your computer) called JETNET Check-in.  If you are non-revving or traveling pos space (such as, pilots and f/as deadheading to work a flight out of another station), you can check-in up to 24 hours in advance of the scheduled departure.  You can even put yourself on the standby list for a F/C upgrade at the same time.  The system will prevent you from checking in if you try it earlier than 24 hours in advance.
 
It has nothing to do with what time you show up at the airport the next day. Your place on the standby list is determined by the timestamp on your check-in request.  You may be first.  You may not be first.  But, once you are on the list, your position within a travel category (D1, D2, etc) can not be changed.  If you are one of those people who lists for a 0600 departure, but you can't be bothered with getting up at 0550 the previous day to check-in at 0600, well, you are going to have problems from time to time getting on a flight.  Just like a junior employee (and at both PMAA and PMUS, I would put that at anyone with less than 20 years) who lists for the last possible flight under the DOH system when you know that flight is going to have lots of people listed who are senior to you.

 

[FWAAA]

FWAAA,

He can't just "pay" us off. It was negotiated in the CBA, it would have to be negotiated out. In the end, it will all come down to if the grievance is won or not. Until then its a moot point.

What if Parker simply said:  "Fleet service employees of pmUS no longer get space-available flight privileges."    Does the contract guarantee fleet service employees get flight benefits just because other workgroups get to fly NRSA?   

 

[pjirish317]

 

What if Parker simply said:  "Fleet service employees of pmUS no longer get space-available flight privileges."    Does the contract guarantee fleet service employees get flight benefits just because other workgroups get to fly NRSA?

 Yes it does.

Article 7A, provides for D.O.H. boarding for NRSA travel, and Article 28D ensure's that we get the same travel privelages as everybody else.

 

[blue collar]

What if Parker simply said:  "Fleet service employees of pmUS no longer get space-available flight privileges."    Does the contract guarantee fleet service employees get flight benefits just because other workgroups get to fly NRSA?

There's nothing stopping the company from implementing a high service charge for non-rev. What if they made employees pay the 'buddy pass' rate?

 

[pjirish317]

 

There's nothing stopping the company from implementing a high service charge for non-rev. What if they made employees pay the 'buddy pass' rate?

That's the company right.But it would have to be for everybody. Including the execs.

 

[WeAAsles]

There's nothing stopping the company from implementing a high service charge for non-rev. What if they made employees pay the 'buddy pass' rate?

I'm sure that the company is more than used to having Grievances and Lawsuits hurled at it. That's what they have a Legal team for. I very much doubt they'll get into the petty realm of retribution.