USCREW
Veteran
It's hard to displace someone from PIT. The most junior primary line holder has a seniority date of 1-June-1982. The very last secondary line holder for April has a seniority date of 6-Feb-1984.
June Displacements
- Thread starter Sthrnboy
- Start date
Here's an idea.
EAST should open a flight attendant crew base in Las Vegas. Lets say the west needs 300 F/As for thier operation. Instead of hiring new, open a crew base in LAS on the east certificate.
300 east F/As go to LAS, creating openings in east bases (specifically PHL and CLT to a lesser extent). This creates openings and keeps most F/As in at least thier current base, or only displaces the F/As in the overstaffed bases (PIT CLT), not the understaffed bases (its simply absurd that junior Philly F/As, pretty much the only ones who actually live there, are being displaced BECAUSE the base is understaffed and people are being involuntarily forced to go there... hello... there has to be a better way). Further openings would be filled by recalls. US is the profitable airline but still has thousands laid off while everyone else HIRES. Oh yeah, US hires for half of the airline while it has furloughees in the wings.
I wonder if a new base opeining before the new contract is possible. This would benefit everyone:
East F/As: Opportunity to transfer to a base closer to home, relief of seniority at all bases
West F/As: Senior east F/As "Go West" without affecting PHX at all.
Company: Short west flying is covered without having to hire off the street.
Invol furloughees: get the opportnuity to get called back. This also benefits everyone at merger time, to have a more 'honest' representation of east's seniority list, as opposed to being suprised later as furloughees return.
Potential new hires: They wouldn't exist. They are just screwed. They will be gone once the companies are merged.
The operation: Of the 2000 or so F/As currently based in PHL, over 80% commute. A large part of the 20% that are locals are the ones who will now commuting to another base, while senior F/As commute from PIT and CLT to PHL. Duuuuuuuuhhhh... With the wacky new boarding priority and make it up as you go res system, combined with bad weather and high load factors, means having a workforce where nearly everyone commutes is a pretty poor setup. You now have to hope that every crrewmember on every flight as opposed to most, makes it to thier base city. Keeping people in the cities they live is beneficial.
Cost: Does it really cost that much to throw some computers in a break room and construct pairings to open a base? Or recall F/As that only need a four day refresher, instead of hiring new hires out west that need six weeks of training, and may not finish or quit when they get out there? Is it really cheaper to pay moving costs, settling days, lost revenue from cancelled flights, lost revenue from lower morale, than it is to recall a few people or open a new base?
Just an idea. But I'm just a dumb flight attendant and obviously not as clever as the company and the union who keep an airline running like clockwork with a happy workforce, right?
EAST should open a flight attendant crew base in Las Vegas. Lets say the west needs 300 F/As for thier operation. Instead of hiring new, open a crew base in LAS on the east certificate.
300 east F/As go to LAS, creating openings in east bases (specifically PHL and CLT to a lesser extent). This creates openings and keeps most F/As in at least thier current base, or only displaces the F/As in the overstaffed bases (PIT CLT), not the understaffed bases (its simply absurd that junior Philly F/As, pretty much the only ones who actually live there, are being displaced BECAUSE the base is understaffed and people are being involuntarily forced to go there... hello... there has to be a better way). Further openings would be filled by recalls. US is the profitable airline but still has thousands laid off while everyone else HIRES. Oh yeah, US hires for half of the airline while it has furloughees in the wings.
I wonder if a new base opeining before the new contract is possible. This would benefit everyone:
East F/As: Opportunity to transfer to a base closer to home, relief of seniority at all bases
West F/As: Senior east F/As "Go West" without affecting PHX at all.
Company: Short west flying is covered without having to hire off the street.
Invol furloughees: get the opportnuity to get called back. This also benefits everyone at merger time, to have a more 'honest' representation of east's seniority list, as opposed to being suprised later as furloughees return.
Potential new hires: They wouldn't exist. They are just screwed. They will be gone once the companies are merged.
The operation: Of the 2000 or so F/As currently based in PHL, over 80% commute. A large part of the 20% that are locals are the ones who will now commuting to another base, while senior F/As commute from PIT and CLT to PHL. Duuuuuuuuhhhh... With the wacky new boarding priority and make it up as you go res system, combined with bad weather and high load factors, means having a workforce where nearly everyone commutes is a pretty poor setup. You now have to hope that every crrewmember on every flight as opposed to most, makes it to thier base city. Keeping people in the cities they live is beneficial.
Cost: Does it really cost that much to throw some computers in a break room and construct pairings to open a base? Or recall F/As that only need a four day refresher, instead of hiring new hires out west that need six weeks of training, and may not finish or quit when they get out there? Is it really cheaper to pay moving costs, settling days, lost revenue from cancelled flights, lost revenue from lower morale, than it is to recall a few people or open a new base?
Just an idea. But I'm just a dumb flight attendant and obviously not as clever as the company and the union who keep an airline running like clockwork with a happy workforce, right?
USCREW
Veteran
I think it's a good idea, and very creative, but I've heard that it's very expensive to open or close a base.
I'm sure there are expenses we don't think of, but how expensive can it be? LAS is a hub/focus city, rare in our system that it's mostly mainline flying. LAS has 109 mainline departures a day as opposed to PIT which has only 39 a day. Its a somewhat base for west (reserves only? I don't completely understand- maybe a west F/A can explain.) I know they have PHX F/As go there to sit OPR, or Frying Pan or whatever they call it there, so there must be some of the basic setup for a crew base like a crew room and computers and such.
It just makes sense. I wonder does the company know anything about the F/As other than numbers... a smart management would know who commutes from where and why, who wants to be where and why, and the culture of the workgroups...
In the west you have a one-base culture where most people live there and have never had to worry about multiple bases. The majority want to stay in PHX.
In the east you have a very senior workforce who have been through so many base openings and closings and different focuses on different hubs and business strategies that nearly everyone commutes.It has just become a difficult and sad but neccessary way of life... you have the "junior" contingent of that group who have spent the better part of a decade being displaced and furloughed. I was displaced three times in a year and a half not to mention laid off twice... no one can afford to move each time especially if your in the 20K a year crowd.
Many of the commuters from the east are from the west coast and will go there as soon as they can. Many commute from LAX and SAN and a LAS base would be more beneficial than PHX. Since the LAS base would cover "growth" flying that would have been done by PHX new hires, no one in PHX would be affected at all. And again, the east bases would stabilize a bit more after the loss of the LAS people... people might get to go back to CLT from PHL... PHL would be better staffed by the locals than by involuntary commuters. Recalling east F/As is just better common sense than hiring new west ones in every way... cost, morale, less turnover.
Do they look to the future at all? Maybe they really do intend to operate two seperate airlines for a very long time.
It doesn't make sense to displace people out of a base thats understaffed to replace them with someone who doesn't want to be there. It doesn't make sense to hire when you have laid off F/As. Does anyone out there have a clue?
It just makes sense. I wonder does the company know anything about the F/As other than numbers... a smart management would know who commutes from where and why, who wants to be where and why, and the culture of the workgroups...
In the west you have a one-base culture where most people live there and have never had to worry about multiple bases. The majority want to stay in PHX.
In the east you have a very senior workforce who have been through so many base openings and closings and different focuses on different hubs and business strategies that nearly everyone commutes.It has just become a difficult and sad but neccessary way of life... you have the "junior" contingent of that group who have spent the better part of a decade being displaced and furloughed. I was displaced three times in a year and a half not to mention laid off twice... no one can afford to move each time especially if your in the 20K a year crowd.
Many of the commuters from the east are from the west coast and will go there as soon as they can. Many commute from LAX and SAN and a LAS base would be more beneficial than PHX. Since the LAS base would cover "growth" flying that would have been done by PHX new hires, no one in PHX would be affected at all. And again, the east bases would stabilize a bit more after the loss of the LAS people... people might get to go back to CLT from PHL... PHL would be better staffed by the locals than by involuntary commuters. Recalling east F/As is just better common sense than hiring new west ones in every way... cost, morale, less turnover.
Do they look to the future at all? Maybe they really do intend to operate two seperate airlines for a very long time.
It doesn't make sense to displace people out of a base thats understaffed to replace them with someone who doesn't want to be there. It doesn't make sense to hire when you have laid off F/As. Does anyone out there have a clue?
The East has a little over 200 f/a's that commute from the west coast cities. There are alot that live in LAS and PHX and in LAX and SAN. An east base in LAS would be a great idea and then when we become one..they can just merge the two together in LAS. If they already have a base there it wont cost anything to open one up for the east f/a's. Maybe someone needs to suggest this to the right person in management..... EMBFA...maybe you can suggest it to someone out there. It wont hurt. Its a great idea.
Sthrnboy
Senior
Also you guys make more. Also our base(crew room in LAS) can only fit 10 people down there if that many. Its a shoebox....
Sounds good to me though.
Travelpro72
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What an incredible idea. If only the company would consider something like this. It would make for a much happier group of people. It just doesn't make sense to displace the few folks that LIVE in PHL only to replace them with folks that commute and don't want to. EMBFA you are definately thinking outside of the box. My god Tempe, LISTEN TO US HUH?
Sthrnboy
Senior
? Do not flame me for this. This is west flying RIGHT? (would this not be west AFA/ALPA scope). Also would this not break our puropse of a combined contract by not allowing us to work east a/c and vise versa? just asking? :blink:
Travelpro72
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I think thats correct. That would be the barrier. Nobody wants to screw each other 
and fly what is not their flying at all. It does seem logical though. Well hopefully something like this can happen in the future. I just want us all to be happy collectively.
and fly what is not their flying at all. It does seem logical though. Well hopefully something like this can happen in the future. I just want us all to be happy collectively.
FlightChic
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EMBFA, Your idea is brilliant! You should mention it to management. Actually, we should all write and let them know how much better it would be to open an East base in LAS and let them know what is in it for them. OTOH, US Screwways usually figures out what the logical thing would be to do, then they do the exact opposite so they can screw us over.
Our morale is already low. Imagine how much worse it is going to be when all the senior people (or at least senior to me) are displaced from CLT and PIT and all the junior recalls are displaced.
If I am displaced from PHL, I don't have any idea how I am going to be able to afford a place in BOS, LGA or DCA. I guess about 20 of us can all get a crash pad together. Then we might be able to afford our rent. This sucks! I always try and be positive and upbeat on my trips (even though I complain like crazy here), but if I can't afford to eat or afford a place to live, I might be a little crabby. Funny how a lack of food can do that to a person.
Our morale is already low. Imagine how much worse it is going to be when all the senior people (or at least senior to me) are displaced from CLT and PIT and all the junior recalls are displaced.
If I am displaced from PHL, I don't have any idea how I am going to be able to afford a place in BOS, LGA or DCA. I guess about 20 of us can all get a crash pad together. Then we might be able to afford our rent. This sucks! I always try and be positive and upbeat on my trips (even though I complain like crazy here), but if I can't afford to eat or afford a place to live, I might be a little crabby. Funny how a lack of food can do that to a person.
Informed1
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I don't know who PK is, but maybe his goal is different than yours. If displacements rather than recalls are a financially sound way to staff the airline, then I would assume that is a goal worth pursuing.
The decision to displace rather than recall was based totally upon cost. They did not want to increase the headcount and pay more training, more benefits, etc. However, what they failed to include in their calculation was the intangible cost of bad morale. As if things are not bad enough, now we are going to have people displaced to new bases where they dont want to be. There is a definite cost to poor employee morale. I, for one, will be displaced (and if I dont quit) I will defintely do only what is in my best interest from this point forward. I have had enough. Since 2001 I have been furloughed, then cancelled twice, and then furloughed for three years. Now I have been recalled only to be displaced. It is obvious this company could care less about the impact their decisions have on personal lives.
**Don't forget, we can call out sick 4 times per year for 21 days at a time before your supervisor can request a doctors note. (Of course, read your contract) but that is the way it is. That means you can have 84 sick days a year.**
The decision to displace rather than recall was based totally upon cost. They did not want to increase the headcount and pay more training, more benefits, etc. However, what they failed to include in their calculation was the intangible cost of bad morale. As if things are not bad enough, now we are going to have people displaced to new bases where they dont want to be. There is a definite cost to poor employee morale. I, for one, will be displaced (and if I dont quit) I will defintely do only what is in my best interest from this point forward. I have had enough. Since 2001 I have been furloughed, then cancelled twice, and then furloughed for three years. Now I have been recalled only to be displaced. It is obvious this company could care less about the impact their decisions have on personal lives.
**Don't forget, we can call out sick 4 times per year for 21 days at a time before your supervisor can request a doctors note. (Of course, read your contract) but that is the way it is. That means you can have 84 sick days a year.**
sky high states: Interesting concept, EMBFA. You not only get the west coast commuters back in the west. You get them into a base that essentially doesnt invade the seniority in PHX. Trips would be build from/to that base.
Stagnate seniority in the EAST would finally change. Transfers would replace the negative effects of displacements on F/A's who live in base (you).
BIG QUESTION:
Could this be feasible by JUNE?????????
only stating opinions
Be Careful What You Wish For.
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Does anyone know what the west coast people might think about going to someplace w/ PIT type seniority and trips. Would these senior people give up their seniority in PHL to commute to LAS?
Thank you Sky High.
Is it feasible? Who knows... they thought they could buy Delta Air Lines in a matter of months lol...
I'm sure if they really wanted to think outside the box, and build a base structure that works for everyone they could get it done. The same goes for offering a buyout equal to the number of furloughees. Both ideas would make for a much smoother merger, lower costs, operational efficiency, and put an end to the continual disruption of people's lives.
